Legendary Franklin resells for 63% less than $129,250 price
Zoins
Posts: 33,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
Laura just issued a warning to set builders for selling quickly after completing their sets. She used the example of the $129,250 Franklin half which recently resold for just $47,000 on May 27, 2021.
Laura wrote on May 28, 2021:
We see many newer collectors who come in and distort the marketplace while being in the throws of a raging hunt. A great example is the collector who bought the 1958 wildly toned Franklin for $129,000.00 out of one of our auctions last year. He finished his set and sold it off-all but this coin. The underbidder clearly lost his taste and we just resold the coin for $47,000.00-OUCH! I guess the thrill hunt was that great of an experience?
The coin sold at auctions both times. In this case, the underbidder in the first auction may not have lost any taste but was able to pick it up cheaper because a stronger underbidder didn't appear in the second auction.
- Article: https://www.legendnumismatics.com/hot_topics/finally-and-what-the-heck/
- Cert: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/41057206
- Sale 2018 $129,250: https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/43537837/50c-1958-pcgs-ms67--fbl-cac/
- Sale 2021 $47,000: https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/89896798/50c-1958-pcgs-ms67--fbl-cac/
Comments
I'd hardly call this coin "legendary". The last price was also hardly a bargain either.
Good reason not to get into a bidding war, only the underbidder wins. And for what its worth I think the new auction price is still far too high for this coin.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Legendary condition rarity overreach.
I honestly don't know how someone can absorb these losses and continue to enjoy collecting.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
It's a pretty coin but in my opinion it ain't worth 47 grand either.
It's pretty Legendary to me. I'm not sure what else to call it since the provenance isn't known.
The overwhelming likelihood is that they don't.
You have far lower standards of significance than I do. I could give you my real opinion of it but then, I'd be accused of "thrashing" the coin or something worse.
"The underbidder clearly lost his taste..." It might have been the previous underbidder that won it this time. It might just be that the number three bidder didn't think it was more than $47k special.
My standard is based on the amount of fame the coin has. Do you know of a more famous Franklin Half?
Laura's point is that if you hold the coins, you're more likely to recoup your investment.
Selling too early is what harms the resale price.
that is quite a haircut, obviously. at least a few years between results and with the wild-west of coin price results out there these days, it could've been a calculated gamble.
perhaps the under-bidder got a "good" deal this time?
here is a new quote i may think, "it only takes two get into trouble at an auction but it takes three to get out."
if a player at this level and above does this continually and is pretty good, this result may not be as bad as it seems, if averaged out.
gonna take some hits and i've seen many an experienced forum member (roadrunner, wondercoin, tomb, captainhenway and MANY more) having not gotten themselves banned like some, speak calmly and rationally about many ups and downs of big sales results of the past decades.
a pinhole analysis of a result like this certainly gets the attention though and i've came close to posting some a few times, including frankies.
lots of diverse and interesting posts, information, presentation and neutrality on part of the OP.
hope you newer members are paying attention to many of the threads in this forum. a PhDs worth of information lay right at your fingertips with this forum...
I'd need to be on suicide watch if I took a $75K plus haircut but in the end it's all relative. It seems like some with resources had a short lived passion to get the set done and once done the passion dissipated.
$47K is still much higher than Legend's 2018 estimate of $15K to $17K.
If someone, say, buys a coin from me at $129,000...then consigns it to me, and I sell it again for $47,000...I'm not sure I'd be in such a rush to critique that person...
Her advice could be to help such a collector to:
There's definitely something to be said for her advice.
I was just looking up Joseph Jacob Mickley's 1804 dollar and noted it dropped 32% or $1.2M in 5 years from 2013 to 2018. Imagine absorbing a $1.2M loss?
I was thinking exactly the same. I also think Legend’s description of the technical/surface merits of this coin was just wrong … the obverse clearly has multiple significant visible hits … yet described as:
“1000% PERFECT surfaces adorn both sides. Use a neutron microscope and you will find NO flaws of any size, any where.”
If you have lots of zeros in your net wealth who cares.
At least she didn’t call him stupid and say he could have her left overs as she did Hansen after the $600K+ pair of Mercury Dimes in a now deleted thread. I agree with you 100%. I would have withheld the commentary or blamed it on the market!
I wouldn't call a single Franklin half famous or anything close to it.
It wouldn't surprise me if most collectors of the series have never heard of this coin. I presume it's well known to the modest number who spend "material" amounts on the series. Otherwise, likely only to the low proportion who are professional numismatists, read the coin press, or read forums like this one.
You've made your opinion on many US coins well known in multiple threads. From my understanding, you don't collect US coins. Is that correct?
If you don't collect US coins, it would be easy to understand why you wouldn't call a Franklin half famous or anything close to it.
Sure, but it is her choice to be flippant. "OUCH! I guess the thrill hunt was that great of an experience?" And on. Maybe it was? Maybe it was a complete disaster driven by hardship or a personal emergency? If I were the one she's calling out I'd take my business elsewhere the next time I spent or sold. Why give $ to people presenting your choices to the world as idiotic?
From my understanding, many of her clients like her attitude. I'm not sure if they all do, but it could be like like having a gym trainer.
Because when your choices are indeed idiotic you deserve to be called out on them
The winner of that high bid is obviously 'a legend in his own mind'.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Being scolded by Laura is like earning your wings. It's a rite of passage
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Especially in a Hot Topics
The only idiotic person is Laura for calling out someone who bought a coin from her.
I have a feeling the 1804 has a better chance of recovering some of the lost value versus the Franklin.
She’s done this for years. Her business is fine.
That won’t help the person who lost $1.2M.
Laura’s point is that longer holding periods help maintain value.
Well we can’t call the guy the end user but end what? You guys fill in the blank. What pct or total amount does the auction house make on these 2 transactions. And this a common date issue. A nice MS 65 at $33 (CPG) fills the hole good enough.
It only illustrates the highly speculative risk of this material rofl. But for a billionaire chump change.
When I think of all the slabbed coins somebody could have bought at a show from a wholesaler (recently setup at) at 2 pct behind bid I feel sick. Just think their cases would be full of slabs!
Even if he invested in MS69 & 70 slabbed bullion coins he would have done better. The really sad part is all the single digit slabbed world coins that would buy.
*
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Exactly.
There are people who have so much money a thing like this literally doesn't register in their brain at all. For them, a loss of a $100 grand is just another minor oops among many dozens of massive financial wins and losses. Their portfolios swing around by many millions on a daily basis.
As far as Laura's advice, longer holding times are probably good to make the financial returns look better, but a coin has to appreciate considerably to keep up with the opportunity cost of other potential asset classes. Sometimes taking the hit and moving on is the preferred option.
This particular coin is an outlier in the ebb and flow of the normal market and no reasonably sane holding time would likely have made any difference. A few decades of inflation might help it out, but again, selling it for a small profit doesn't mean anything if it takes 10 or 20 years to realize it.
I don't think time is the problem. If there are only two people on the planet over $50k on that coin, it has a ceiling. Are there suddenly going to be 2 more people 5 years from now willing to go over $100k?
Well, dramatic hyperbole in the description of coins up for auction is nothing new, but the description of "1000% perfect surfaces isn't correct". No flaws anywhere at 10X optical magnification already = MS70, and it would have been graded accordingly. Referencing neutron microscopy in the context of coin grading is just silly.
too much money to spend and not enough common sense to go with the money to spend is the issue
Coins for sale at link below
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TyJbuBJf37WZ2KT19
I’m thinking it’s around a 64 obverse at best, technically speaking…
I would like to read the post resale of this coin replies to this thread that would be posted if the sale price was 63% higher than the prior sale price.
That would provide an interesting contrast to the post resale threads posted already.
I personally find it unattractive, but it's much better than 64.
It definitely won't help the seller.
As far as how long the coin is held, I'm not sure if that applies to a coin like the 1804 that is so very rare and relatively very expensive. Putting aside the one sold in 1941 the sales that have occurred according to PCGS auctions records were in 1989, 1993, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2008, 2013, 2017, 2018 and 2020. You had PR-62 coins that sold in 2008 for $3.7 million (NGC), 2013 for $3.8 million (PCGS) and then in 2018 for $2.6 million (PCGS). So you have approximately five year time spans where coins become available and in this case five year time spans where similar coins (all 62's) become available and in five years the price goes up marginally and after another five year span the price dropped dramatically for a similar coin. In between (2017) you had a PR-65 sell for $3.2 million, less than the PR-62 coin sold in 2013. Did the selling price on the PR-65 greatly impact the price on the PR-62 sold the following year? Would that have changed if the seller of the PR-62 had waited another five years?
It might be similar to the 2018 reaction:
https://coinweek.com/auctions-news/legend-auctions/legend-auctions-wild-toned-1958-franklin-half-sold-for-beyond-moon-money/
I will take " The Art of Buying a Widget" for $400
Is this post a post-resale discussion or a pre-resale post about a post-resale perspective?
Either way, the post is past the pre-sale so it’s a moot point. Now, do you think this post-resale post would have impacted the pre-resale price if it were to have been posted prior to the resale?
Keep me posted.
I think 67+ is very generous for it. I also think $47k is much too strong. Both owners are buried IMHO.
It looks like another retread/piece of expensive dreck. Sigh.
Here, I circled some (not even all!) of the marks and gouges.
Maybe RickO got in his ear.
Old news. I believe the coin also went 1 bid and out the second time? I tip my hat to Legend for getting that much money the second time around on the coin and having that customer. No telling what the coin would have fetched had it opened at $1 with no reserve. I personally own one of the top (5) MS Franklin FBL sets in the Registry (last I checked) and doubt I would have bid much more than half what it fetched the second time around.
Gets back to the clear adage that your money is generally made, or lost, on the buy, not the sell. Buying that coin for $130,000.00 created a near hopeless situation for that buyer. Not sure 5 more years would have changed anything as that owner found the perfect buyer for his registry set and couldn’t get that coin sold as part of the 34/35 coin deal.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Yes the 130k buyer buried himself in a real deep hole. CPG for MS 67 that piece $377. Toners of course emotion kicks in / bid war.
While the coin is an attractive toner tarnish gets darker with age, reaction with the atmosphere - it might not be so nice after another ten years lol.
As far as holding coins a long time so make a bigger return can be nonsense rubbish. Look at Pcgs 3000 many coins still down since 89 crash. Classic Commems cheaper than 25 yr ago.
Sure a whale of a buyer may come along or NOT.
Churn your investment, buy low / sell high.