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Are these counterfeit Ike dollars? UPDATE #1 WITH MORE PHOTOS
joebb21
Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
A client of mine I recently visited told me he just bought a large group of ike dollars (about 150) but noticed there were 10 coins that while just going through them, noticed they looked smaller and had a different look.
They are smaller in diameter than the real 1971 and are actually different dates and mintmarks- including the 1776-1976 type.
thoughts?!
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2
Comments
@FredWeinberg
They appear to be genuine coins that have been manipulated/altered post mint. Perhaps ground down. Is there reading on edge?
peacockcoins
do the edges have reeding ?
Yes- full reading- They are nice SUPER bright and shiny compared to the genuine one.
These were mostly made for the slot machine industry which would explain the edge wear if they were used in a casino for any length of time.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
A couple of those give me pause. Let’s definitely wait until @FredWeinberg or another error specialist chimes in.
ANA LM
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Las Vegas,.....Baby!
These are not errors. This is the result or wear from heavy use in slot machines.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I would have guessed Vegas also except for the sharp reeding.
The edges look like solid copper, whereas on reeded coins you usually see an uneven separation between the clad layers.
Maybe counterfeits made from copper-nickel plated copper sheet from which the blanks are punched?
I would suspect the reading would be heavily degraded for the edge effect on the coins as shown. How is the thickness, is it possible they were struck on 50c planchets?
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How does it compare in size to half dollars?
BTW: The reeding is pretty much gone on Kennedy halves in Vegas Casinos.
No idea but interested in finding out
Thanks, but I’ll maintain my skepticism. I’ve seen a lot of slot machine halves and dollars and these look different to me.
@joebb21 have you weighed them? Are they within Ike dollar tolerance?
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
Half - diameter - 30.61mm
Ike - 38.1 mm
Those aren’t on a half dollar planchet
It appears these would have to be either counterfeit or modified post mint. I've seen similar rims - where it looks like the edge of the rim has been beveled off - on some counterfeit Morgan dollars.
Alternatively, perhaps someone took genuine Ike dollars, ground them down to a smaller diameter and added new reeding. Seems like a lot of effort for no particular reason - but what other explanation is there?
The edges shown don’t look right. Shouldn’t be solid red, as JBK states.
My reasoning would be to sell some counterfeit “error” coins via the usual channels
Heavy use in slot machines wears down the reeding. Those have not seen slot machine use.
Now, this is getting interesting. That reeding is sharp, and the lack of significant marks tells me these are NOT slot machine coins.
Here is an example of a slot machine clad Ike:
I am truly looking forward to what the error specialists have to say about these.
peacockcoins
Whatever they are they are collectible to me. Super neat looking.
If you want to part with them let me know. Of course if Fred chimes in and you have a jackpot
I guess I’m not your gal
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Possibly magicians coins for fitting into the shell of another Ike. For a multiplying Ike dollar trick, or some such thing.
seems like the best response so far!
I call shenanigans.
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could you show picture of all reverses? the one shown looks like thinner letters.
I am leaning toward tooled edge - have a weight?
Don't know what they are, but it's pretty safe to say they've never seen the insides of a slot machine.
some of them don't look round
Made in the PRoC. just for testing acceptance.
you are playing right in to their evil thoughts... and tests.
I said it so often, even on this forum( which was always met with silence:
US customs are spending way too much time on finding one crumble of "wheat"....
should concentrate on other huge $$$ making items like IKE or other dollars.... its the same border these come across...
when was the last time you saw on TV that customs questioned someone with coins?
the interesting thing is, metal is easier to detect than some other substance......think about it.
I get one of them.
They aren't slot machine coins because the reeding would be obliterated given the amount of time they would need to circulate in that venue. Also, the surfaces are far too mark-free to have spent time in slots. My guess is counterfeits and perhaps from South America.
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Very interesting.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I'd buy one of the 78s. Thats my birth year.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
My opinion is:
The coins are genuine, NOT used extensively in a casino, but likely manipulated for making "magician" coins or some such (as mentioned previously in this thread). One looks like a partial punch-out that was aborted before finishing the conversion.
PS:
When you see a similar type of mysterious "error" on multiple coins (of different dates), that usually signals a post-mint (private) modification and not a genuine Mint error.
Since I now see that the edge reeding is so sharp, one must conclude the reduced diameter of these coins is not a result of use in slot machines as others have pointed out. I must conclude these are a lame attempt at counterfeiting. This is one of those numismatic mysteries that make the hobby so interesting.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
I doubt they are counterfeits. Why would there be multiple dates? That would require multiple dies or molds.
This seems the most logical to me.
It'll be interesting to see what @FredWeinberg has to say.
Those edges don't look the unusual for Ikes. Notice the "real one" on the right side also looks "all copper". You're thinking of the smaller clad coins. Ikes usually look "all copper" on the edge
I've been intrigued by these coins and have been watching this thread closely. I think this is the best theory yet.
I would have to disagree. The one on the right shows 75% to 80% copper and the rest CN.
The problem with the "magician's coin" or "manipulation" theories is the sharply reeded edges. You can't reduce a coin's diameter without affecting the edge.
The one exception is that process using a high voltage jolt to shrink a coin, but that leaves surface disruptions and makes the coins thicker.
Chinese counterfeiters were (are) making tons of forgeries to return to the US Mint under their mutilated coin program. Supposedly, according to news reports (which I found a little unbelievable), more JFK halves were returned as damaged coins that were discovered in scrapped cars shipped to China than were ever minted in the first place.
The one on the right is not the same as the others. IMO.
This one almost looks struck off center.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Yes, that bottom one is odd. I can't visualize what is going on there.
Maybe one of these https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S14042?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhe2opbvs8AIV0ht9Ch2QcQTzEAQYESABEgLGifD_BwE
Or one of these
https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/13308
Mr_Spud
There is another coin under it. Look in the gap, you can see the "Y". These continue to look like coins intentionally modified for magic
If these are counterfeit they look pretty good minus the size and rims looking cut off.
If you could make a counterfeit that looks that good, surely you wouldn't screw up the diameter so badly.
Interesting group of Ikes.... I am leaning to 'fake' at this point, and would like to examine that last one closely, definitely something different there. Cheers, RickO
Counterfeit or fake?? Why? If you had this skill level, why would you pick this clad junk to counterfeit?
I’m leaning towards this
https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/13308
Mr_Spud