Were 1804 Dollar Restrikes and other customer-ordered restrikes/patterns officially sanctioned?

Zoins

In the 19th century, many restrike coins and off metal patterns were sold to collectors.

Was there an official US Mint policy for these sales and creations? Or were they sold by individual Mint employees with the Mint looking the other way, or not looking at all?

Crypto

My fav fact is 1804s type 3s weighed more (420 grains 27.2g) than the class 1 & 2s because they used trade dollar planchets because no 412 grain dollars were being made at the time which has let historians date their manufacturing to between 74-77 although it could have been 73-84.

Not an answer to your question but a piece of the puzzle

Coinosaurus

The Mint openly traded Mint Cabinet pieces -- https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/579972.

But I don't think any of the restrikes were ever "officially" sanctioned.

BillJones

Years ago I remember reading a bogus letter from a mint official at the claiming that the restrikes were as old as some people claimed when they had actually be made quite recently.

I think that there was a lot of "midnight minting" going on at the mint for fun and profit. Franklin Peal got the ax for making medals that he sold for personal profit that were made with mint precious metals and equipment. There is one 1804 Dollar that was struck over a Swiss shooting taler. You need not tell me that everything was on the up and up. It wasn't.

Crypto

One of the better exhibit now days at the Smithsonian is the only possible class 1,2 & 3 1804 dollars

thefinn

The Class I "restrikes" were officially sanctioned by the U.S. Government to put into proof sets and presented to dignitaries. I know the Class II is struck over a cut-down 1857 Swiss Shooting Thaler and was clandestinely made. The some of the Class IIIs were struck at the mint to trade for items for the mint collection, now in the Smithsonian, though some were done unofficially.

MFeld

@thefinn said:
The Class I "restrikes" were officially sanctioned by the U.S. Government to put into proof sets and presented to dignitaries. I know the Class II is struck over a cut-down 1857 Swiss Shooting Thaler and was clandestinely made. The some of the Class IIIs were struck at the mint to trade for items for the mint collection, now in the Smithsonian, though some were done unofficially.

I don’t believe the Class 1 examples are considered to be “restrikes”, but rather, they are “Originals”.

thefinn

@MFeld said:

@thefinn said:
The Class I "restrikes" were officially sanctioned by the U.S. Government to put into proof sets and presented to dignitaries. I know the Class II is struck over a cut-down 1857 Swiss Shooting Thaler and was clandestinely made. The some of the Class IIIs were struck at the mint to trade for items for the mint collection, now in the Smithsonian, though some were done unofficially.

I don’t believe the Class 1 examples are considered to be “restrikes”, but rather, they are “Originals”.

They can't be "originals" because they were struck in the 1830's. They are more of a fantasy strike. The original silver dollars struck in 1804 are dated 1803, of which 19,570 were struck.

MFeld

@thefinn said:

@MFeld said:

@thefinn said:
The Class I "restrikes" were officially sanctioned by the U.S. Government to put into proof sets and presented to dignitaries. I know the Class II is struck over a cut-down 1857 Swiss Shooting Thaler and was clandestinely made. The some of the Class IIIs were struck at the mint to trade for items for the mint collection, now in the Smithsonian, though some were done unofficially.

I don’t believe the Class 1 examples are considered to be “restrikes”, but rather, they are “Originals”.

They can't be "originals" because they were struck in the 1830's. They are more of a fantasy strike. The original silver dollars struck in 1804 are dated 1803, of which 19,570 were struck.

Whether you like it or agree with it, the Class 1 examples are (also) referred to as “Originals”.

LanceNewmanOCC

@Coinosaurus said:
The Mint openly traded Mint Cabinet pieces -- https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/579972.

But I don't think any of the restrikes were ever "officially" sanctioned.

that was a fun read.

i'm getting ready to start up "counterfeiting in colonial rhode island."

tradedollarnut

@thefinn said:

@MFeld said:

@thefinn said:
The Class I "restrikes" were officially sanctioned by the U.S. Government to put into proof sets and presented to dignitaries. I know the Class II is struck over a cut-down 1857 Swiss Shooting Thaler and was clandestinely made. The some of the Class IIIs were struck at the mint to trade for items for the mint collection, now in the Smithsonian, though some were done unofficially.

I don’t believe the Class 1 examples are considered to be “restrikes”, but rather, they are “Originals”.

They can't be "originals" because they were struck in the 1830's. They are more of a fantasy strike. The original silver dollars struck in 1804 are dated 1803, of which 19,570 were struck.

So what are the BiCentennial quarters? They were struck in 1975.

And if 1804 dollars were never struck, how can the first round be called ‘restrikes’?

Fact is that 1804 dollars were originally struck in 1835. I have no problem calling those coins “original “.