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May 4 Update: NGC adds 2021 Morgan CC Dollar to their Carson City Registry - NGC Reconsidering?
pointfivezero
Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭✭✭
Noticed my NGC CC registry went from 100% complete to 93% yesterday. When I checked my registry detail, I noticed they've added the 2021 Morgan CC privy to the list:
Thoughts?
4
Comments
I wouldn’t think the CC privy mark should quality on a mint mark specific set. It’s not a mint mark. I can see it being added to a Philly set as varieties, though.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
They added the year 2021 to my Morgan Date Set, as well.
Yes, I was a bit surprised.
I don't really think it belongs but it's not such a bad thing. IMHO.
It's marketing that stimulates interest in the hobby, while generating extra revenue for them.
Win-win.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
All I can say at this point is it could be the first and only 70 in my registry.
It isn't a Carson City mint coin and shouldn't be included. Marketing ploy?
Yes, I would tend to agree but I am a sucker for Registries so I will play the game.
Boy, I would send NGC a good argument for leaving it out.
bob
Gotta generate some extra revenue.
I don't think this has anything to do with generating revenue - it is more that collecting is fun and adding this to a CC registry expands on enjoyment. Nothing wrong with that, if someone does not want a 2021 CC in their registry, that is okay, but hey, I'd put one in if I was doing that set for sure......
Best, SH
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I wouldn't be so sure. You have to "catch 'em all" for your Registry Set.
If they are going to add 2021, they should add 1964.
Indian Head $10 Gold Date Set Album
Are 2021 CC Morgans expensive? Are they rare? How big a deal is this?
it's a matter of principle I suppose
while not a registry contestant, I'm on the side that a CC privy means nothing for a CC set. it is a philly coin.
…I wish they would have waited to add it till after they sell out
It has no business being in a morgan registry set of any kind considering that it is a modern commemorative.
Inclusion is good if you want new collectors.
If you just want to cater to existing collectors, it’s less obvious.
For the future of the hobby, I tend to want to get new collectors so I’m okay with it.
I'm one who has spoken out that the 2021 Morgan should be included in the Registry Sets but I can't agree with this one. The coin isn't being produced at the Carson City Mint. Therefore, in my mind it's not a CC coin. It' a Philly coin with a CC privy mark stamped on it. It's a Morgan in my mind, just not a true CC.
They have the dies!
I think it can go either way.
Has one Mint ever added a Mint Mark for another mint?
I know mints have not added mint marks to "masquerade" as another mint. For example, the West Point No-W circulation cents in the 1970s are all cataloged as Philadelphia cents, even though they were made in West Point.
Agreed.
It simply doesn't belong.
I've sent an email to NGC requesting some insight on what led to the decision to include the 2021 release. Will update the thread when and if I hear back.
An original 19th century cc cannot compare to the 2021 privy mark. I think it’s a mistake adding the new commemoratives along with the originals.
Apparently, all five 2021 Morgans have been added to the NGC registries. Likewise with the 2021 Peace.
Will PCGS follow?
It’s not a Carson City minted coin.
I would like to think that decision will not stand
Martin
Maybe their thinking is that it’s about the mint/privy mark and not where it’s minted?
@zcoins There is no logic to that. That’s why I think it will change. And it not even a mont Mark it’s a privy mark
Martin
Privy marks for mints haven’t been done before so this is a new area. Is there any precedent for this either way?
Well, I will get one of these, and I will keep it with my complete CC Morgan series..... True, not a CC minted coin, but it is commemorating the CC mint. That is my opinion and my plan. Cheers, RickO
@zoin> Privy marks for mints haven’t been done before so this is a new area. Is there any precedent for this either way?
Without thinking to hard about it I would say there is not a precedent for it. However a mint Mark is where a coin is minted And most collectors
Either do a date set or collect by date and mint Mark. To include this in a cc registry is a mistake. Full disclosure I do not have a dollar swim any registry. I might however buy a proof version of the new coin. Just think for under a couple hindered I can have a proof Morgan.
Who would have ever thought proof Morgan’s would be that cheap again
Martin
Ebay presales are about $180 for delivery next October.
bob
Heard back from the NGC Registry Manager this morning (kudos for the prompt response). Here was her response in regards to the concerns many of you raised in this thread:
**Hello, Tim.
Thank you for the inquiry. Our senior numismatists discussed these two new issues at length. They are not part of the official US Mint Commemorative program backed by legislation. The team decided to add them to the regular issue sets, especially as the designs are similar.
Please let us know when we may assist in the future.**
I have replied to her with additional questions and concerns but I have not heard back as of this moment. Will continue to update the thread as I hear more.
Tim
The "Please let us know when we may assist in the future" line sounds like a "Don't as us about this again" response. I disagree with their decision, too, while others will agree with it, as was hashed out at length on a thread here a few weeks ago. For me, they're de facto commemoratives. They should have their own set in registries. I would expect that PCGS will do this and award a participation medal to those who create a set.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Thanks. My post was meant to be tongue in cheek / mildly sarcastic. I think this is much ado about nothing. I think the registries should enhance your collecting experience but not dictate what you collect.
What does it add to the Registry set when everyone with it included has a 69/70. That's no fun. Maybe someone can register a FR02 in a few years.
Looking at all the "presales" on ebay... who would be crazy enough to actually buy one of these presales? Besides having a 100% mark-up, how would you have any confidence that these sellers will actually get the coins to deliver? The most shocking part is that people are actually buying these.
If you participate in the competitive registry then you are asking to have what you collect dictated to you. Its not up to you, me, or the bump on the wall what is included in a registry set definition, that is dictated by the registry team that runs the registry. Now if you want to collect whatever you want without limits or set defining and still show of the set; then the showcase non-competitive sets are a great fit as a way for only you to dictate what the set includes.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Here's another approach...you can use the registry sets as defined by the grading services to help you build your collection without being competitive and without having to have 100% completeness. You can still see how your collection compares to others but if you don't have, or don't want to include a coin that the grading service has defined for the set, then that's OK.
Sure that is basically putting together a showcase set in the competitive area; to me it would just make more sense to place it in the showcase area but for sure its an option.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Yes, and the PGA Tour could be expanded to include a round being played on The Golf Club 2019. Their rules, but it just doesn't feel right.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
"The Gold Club 2019"? IS that a miniature gold coarse? LOL
bob
Especially if you have to pay them now. The listings aren't even going to be visible in October. You'll have to file a charge back through your CC if something goes wrong. Hardly worth the risk.
https://www.thegolfclub2019.com/
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
I prefer WGT myself, but yes. And with things going all virtual and NFT's taking off I would not be surprised to see the PGA go this route someday. Change is the only constant.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I received a new update from the NGC Registry Manager last night - it appears they may be reconsidering adding the 2021 Morgan and Peace dollars to the registries:
Hi, Tim.
Thank you for your interest. We have consulted with our extended senior team, and further discussion needs to happen before determining the placement of these new issues. We will post on the chat boards when the decision has been finalized.
FYI - Tim