If I understand correctly, the OP is saying not that the interior coins are not likely to be all CCs and unsearched, but that the coins on the end of the rolls are counterfeit, yes?
@daltex said:
If I understand correctly, the OP is saying not that the interior coins are not likely to be all CCs and unsearched, but that the coins on the end of the rolls are counterfeit, yes?
While "it doesn't look right" is how most counterfeits are identified, obviously it isn't the most compelling argument from an anonymous online poster.
I've been a member here since 2006. What make me "anonymous"? Only the fact that you don't know that my name is Russell Kaye. I'm no longer anonymous. If you had bothered to read my past threads perhaps you would be better able to discern my expertise. If I'm anonymous to you, you are lazy because there is plenty of info about me at your fingertips.
This particular listing looks off, but not definitively to me based on those photos. But I'm not really sure why that should make me want to create a Federal Bureau of Auction Investigations to deal with the problem.
I keep calling for suggestions other than regulation but @jmlanzaf simply doesn't seem to understand that. I guess it's because he's getting tired. I'm tired of my words being ignored. And I'm pretty sure that I have more to contribute than @jmlanzaf, after watching him for several years now. Read both of our past posts. Start reading the paper money category and follow me there, where I'm not anonymous.
Don't worry, my future educational threads will be limited to the paper money board. My previous threads on counterfeit detection there have been very well received and if you are interested, look for me there. Forgive me for trying to help educate you coin guys. What could I possibly know?
-An anonymous poster, Russell Kaye, ANA LM 3572, SPMC life member, etc, etc, etc.
P.S. "It just looks off" was the answer that I always got when trying to learn. I never understood that until I had seen several hundred thousand silver dollars. THEN you understand "It just looks off." And That's NOT what I said. I pointed specifically to the mintmark style and poor strike. Who needs unfair comments like this? Later.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
all you need to do is to rigidly enforce present laws!
But it is much easier for the law to come down hard on some kid who just smoked his first joint and got cought.
or if someone even admits to have some light stuff in his pockets while in a Federal border crossing where both sides , adjoining states / countries, are tolerant of small possession. BUT since this is a FED building.... you go to jail.
easier than finding fake coins or currency.
@sellitstore said:
I've been a member here since 2006. What make me "anonymous"? Only the fact that you don't know that my name is Russell Kaye. I'm no longer anonymous.
Googled you, this is from the first result I got:
Russ, what are the tell tale signs the Tallahasse is a fake (so I can check mine)?
The easiest way is to compare a genuine and a fake side by side as the difference becomes obvious then. Since most poeple won't be able to do this, here is a scan of a real one. The most obvious difference between this note and the fake is the color, especially on the back. Real one has vibrant, bright green back while fake has dull, washed out color. Look at close up of imprint on face of copy. Letters aren't sharp and well formed as on originals. In fact, all detail on the copy is less distinct than on an engraved note. These Tallahassee copies are lithgraphed and lack the fine detail of an engraved note.
Another fake. Can't tell by detail (or lack) because scan isn't large and sharp enough but dull color is the dead giveaway, as is the case on all of these Tallahassee copies. -Russell Kaye, Sellitstore
I suspect if you had responded to the questioning of the "it doesn't look right" comment in a similar fashion instead of getting mad because your expertise was not respected, the thread might have gone more smoothly.
I'm getting tired of him telling us (without bragging, of course) how knowledgeable he is and how much he's trying to educate us and save numismatics. This forum identifies counterfeits on eBay all of the time and we join forces to get them removed.
>
I'm getting tired of just about every piece of crap that comes out of your yap.
That's the attitude that has sufficiently disgusted me over time that I have chosen to no longer to post here.
I'm very happy that you have a stable teaching job at a college or university. You are very knowledgeable in some minor areas of numismatics of great interest to many here. I have seen few indicators you know but little else. You are, however, very good at flashing your debating(?) skill(?) at taking both sides of an argument. But that's theory.
World--class grader.. help found NGC
Taught grading at ANA Summer seminar for many years.
Have owned, bought and sold
Two 1795 $10's in gem (Eliasberg and Norman Stack)\
Six Rolled Edge $10's - five gem
Gem 1821 proof QE
Five proof Classic QE's
Gem 1838 Proof $10
Garrett 1804 $1
Made first 1892-S $1 MS67 PCGS
Amon Carter 1893-O $1 Gem DMPL
Greysheet contributor 1980
So many pre-1856 proof Type coins (mostly gem) I can't count.
It's been 40 years a pro and 35 years at the top. Essentially retired for several years, I can still walk off any bourse floor in the country with a million bucks worth of coins on little else but my signature.
The poets and other literati here will perhaps understand the irony of "Gaze upon my works, oh ye mighty, and despair".
I'm getting tired of you posing as some arbiter of truth when it seems more often to be an occasion for gratuitous sarcasm.
Pot calling the kettle black? Can I be sarcastic? You bet!
I deliver(ed) a lot of truth about areas of the coin universe of which you have no experience and likely no conception.
I earned my cred on the street, not in a classroom or message board.
There are two World's Greatest Authorities.
When I consider @Prof-Irwin-Corey I smile.
When I consider @jmlanzaf my reaction is the opposite. Upon more consideration, it has much to do with your pattern of undermining the authority or credibility of others.
PS. As per @sellitstore, the CC "coins" seem (poor lighting) obvious fakes from three feet away.
Based on the ad hominem nature of this screed, I expect to be banned again. My PMs will continue. See you in another year.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Even if we assume the two CC’s are real (which they probably aren’t) what’s the likelihood of finding two Morgans with the reverses positioned in the roll so that the CC is shown in a very questionable old bank roll?
I'm getting tired of him telling us (without bragging, of course) how knowledgeable he is and how much he's trying to educate us and save numismatics. This forum identifies counterfeits on eBay all of the time and we join forces to get them removed.
>
I'm getting tired of just about every piece of crap that comes out of your yap.
That's the attitude that has sufficiently disgusted me over time that I have chosen to no longer to post here.
I'm very happy that you have a stable teaching job at a college or university. You are very knowledgeable in some minor areas of numismatics of great interest to many here. I have seen few indicators you know but little else. You are, however, very good at flashing your debating(?) skill(?) at taking both sides of an argument. But that's theory.
World--class grader.. help found NGC
Taught grading at ANA Summer seminar for many years.
Have owned, bought and sold
Two 1795 $10's in gem (Eliasberg and Norman Stack)\
Six Rolled Edge $10's - five gem
Gem 1821 proof QE
Five proof Classic QE's
Gem 1838 Proof $10
Garrett 1804 $1
Made first 1892-S $1 MS67 PCGS
Amon Carter 1893-O $1 Gem DMPL
Greysheet contributor 1980
So many pre-1856 proof Type coins (mostly gem) I can't count.
It's been 40 years a pro and 35 years at the top. Essentially retired for several years, I can still walk off any bourse floor in the country with a million bucks worth of coins on little else but my signature.
The poets and other literati here will perhaps understand the irony of "Gaze upon my works, oh ye mighty, and despair".
I'm getting tired of you posing as some arbiter of truth when it seems more often to be an occasion for gratuitous sarcasm.
Pot calling the kettle black? Can I be sarcastic? You bet!
I deliver(ed) a lot of truth about areas of the coin universe of which you have no experience and likely no conception.
I earned my cred on the street, not in a classroom or message board.
There are two World's Greatest Authorities.
When I consider @Prof-Irwin-Corey I smile.
When I consider @jmlanzaf my reaction is the opposite.
Upon reconsideration, it has as much to do with your pattern of undermining the authority or credibility of others.
PS. As per @sellitstore, the CC "coins" seem (poor lighting) obvious fakes from three feet away.
Based on the ad hominem nature of this screed, I expect to be banned again. My PMs will continue. See you in another year.
Hey, Rick, missed you buddy. Glad to see that you are well.
Can you see me blushing? This is the nicest thing you've ever said to me!
I keep calling for suggestions other than regulation but @jmlanzaf simply doesn't seem to understand that. I guess it's because he's getting tired. I'm tired of my words being ignored. And I'm pretty sure that I have more to contribute than @jmlanzaf, after watching him for several years now. Read both of our past posts. Start reading the paper money category and follow me there, where I'm not anonymous.
Sorry, dude, I was confused by your original post in this thread where you asked about "Stepped up Federal enforcement", "State or local enforcement", or "new laws". I guess I shouldn't read all the words...and, of course, there's the TITLE OF THIS THREAD. Very clever of you to throw all those red herrings out there, Russell. Do you write mystery novels?
Is that what you meant about fish...red herrings? Can you teach me how to fish for red herrings or do you just show me the red herrings?
@sellitstore said:
We probably can all agree that we don't like to see this kind of offering go unchecked. The coins are clearly counterfeit.
So what would be a better way to stop this sort of thing? Stepped up Federal enforcement? State or local enforcement and new laws? Or a different approach?
@BillJones said:
Only a fool would buy these rolls without seeing the coins.
As for the government, it takes the Secret Service months to decide if a coin it counterfeit. I knew someone who went though the process.
They should hire some people from the TPGs. Doesn't it take a TPG grader only 3 seconds for easy-to-identify counterfeits?
I don't imagine the SS is staring at the coin for 3 months. It's probably 2.99 months of paperwork and queueing followed by 3 minutes of actually looking at the coin.
I would like to publicly thank Rick for doing what needed to be done so much better than I could. Indeed, his rhetorical skills and wit are matched by few and he is one of the reasons that I read threads on the coin side.
I made the mistake of taking a certain poster too seriously, and it's not the first time, with this particular individual. My fault and I'll try not to make the same mistake again.
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
I would like to publicly thank Rick for doing what needed to be done so much better than I could. Indeed, his rhetorical skills and wit are matched by few and he is one of the reasons that I read threads on the coin side.
I made the mistake of taking a certain poster too seriously, and it's not the first time, with this particular individual. My fault and I'll try not to make the same mistake again.
When I consider @Prof-Irwin-Corey I smile.
When I consider @jmlanzaf my reaction is the opposite. Upon more consideration, it has much to do with your pattern of undermining the authority or credibility of others.
Is this in reference to Perry Hall or myself? I never questioned anyone's authority or credibility. The only thing I "complained" about was Russell's braggadocio which is quite another matter. In fact, I agreed with him that the coins looked bad.
You might want to reconsider your reconsideration...or not.
Always nice to hear from you. I should probably send you rent for the space I'm taking up in your head.
When I consider @Prof-Irwin-Corey I smile.
When I consider @jmlanzaf my reaction is the opposite. Upon more consideration, it has much to do with your pattern of undermining the authority or credibility of others.
Is this in reference to Perry Hall or myself? I never questioned anyone's authority or credibility. The only thing I "complained" about was Russell's braggadocio which is quite another matter. In fact, I agreed with him that the coins looked bad.
You might want to reconsider your reconsideration...or not.
Always nice to hear from you. I should probably send you rent for the space I'm taking up in your head.
I felt I should included @PerryHall in Bragathon 2021, but he's a Mini-Me to you in attitude. Your skillfulness at discourse and true competence in some areas gives your profile persona a general aura of relative competence that makes you more insidiously dangerous.
Your contempt is palpable, your disingenuousness delicious. You out-humble Uriah Heep.
I included @PerryHall's reference because neither you nor Perry know enough about coins or either of us to be able to rate the knowledge of @sellitstore or myself. Unlike us, neither of you has "been there" and "done that".
The below @jmlanzaf quote is the tip of the iceberg.
"I'm getting tired of him telling us (without bragging, of course) how knowledgeable he is and how much he's trying to educate us and save numismatics This forum identifies counterfeits on eBay all of the time and we join forces to get them removed."
What a supercilious, snide, disrespectful and toxic comment.
But I appreciate your egalitarian, counter-elitist/meritocratic praise of the efficacy of the Forum's collective wisdom. 'Cause we know all opinions are worth the same. I'm trying to recall if I've ever seen any evidence that you know how to grade. Or authenticate? Or what's rare. As you are, as we have been told, an Ebay dealer, you'd likely fit in what I'd consider the lower tier. As numismatists they are likely two levels above their customers in knowledge. Beyond that, they seem to mostly "know the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Living rent-free in my head? On the basis of that one post? My argument is with PCGS management. I'd have said nothing but for your dismissive undermining of both the personage and information of a fellow numismatist whose experience has spoken for itself many times here. But I did quote/repeat it with a sad/grumpy emoji to show my empathy and identification with what I imagined to be @sellitstore's reaction. Your gratuitous sabotage of many of my (as well as many others') comments has encouraged me to believe my efforts to inform this population are not worth the effort of swimming upstream against the (very effective) barriers to facile communication you constantly erect. But, lest you overvalue your importance, know that the loss of the disagree button grieves me more.
Despite your puerile imaginings, I do not sit in front of my monitor all day paralyzed as I watch your sometimes skillfully subtle insults to my overly-fragile ego bouncing around in my brain like B-B's in a box-car. Perhaps your (real and/or imagined) overall lack of efficacy in the real world causes you sufficient anxiety that you feel most in control when you can squelch those who threaten you most. I am ethically restrained from offering any clinical diagnosis relating to pathological narcissism.
Likely you inhabited an undramatically unhappy childhood. Cheap speculation, more worthy of a cocktail party or clinicians' convention, but your hostility shows its teeth too often. Notwithstanding that, screw your angst or whatever it is that impels you to attack. Here, we really don't have to go any deeper. On the bourse floor, in the auction room or (opposite end of the table!) out for Taco Tuesday with the gang, you would be just a another pissantschmucktroll unpleasant nonentity to me. It's unclear to me what about me it might be that has caused you to view me with such obvious contempt. Suffice it to say that, as adored as I know I will be when I enter, regnant, in triumph into the halls of Valhalla, your contempt will still mean more to me than most people's praise.
It appears quite difficult for you to consistently let a disagreeable comment get past you without hearing your reaction. Anyone who differs from you must be "cut down to size". FWIW, I worked as a psychotherapist at an anti-domestic violence agency here in NJ. I've put up with torrents of direct verbal abuse, dealt with the sequela of vicarious traumatization and hardly ever woke up in the middle of the night feeling my clients or my own pain or rage. I do have to admit that whenever I see your avatar I experience a minor twinge of disgust, but you likely will be disappointed in knowing your effect on my life is comparable to that of the bad fish taco I had for lunch.
And ask yourself this (though it's clearly intended for other readers):
if you knew (for whatever reason) that you were living rent-free in my head and I had some apparent vulnerability, and also knowing the usefulness of my information, what twisted rationale could you have beyond infantile selfish sadistic satisfaction that would contribute directly to thwarting the dissemination of that information?
While he was in no way referring to you either directly or indirectly in this manner, retired cardiac surgeon @BigMoose once speculated, in a sadly quite judgmental tone, upon the "increasing incidence of recto-cranial prolapse in the population".
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@sellitstore said:
Experts, like Mr. Feld and myself offer our services for free by commenting on this board all of the time. I was merely suggesting that if a recognized expert commented on the authenticity of these particular CCs in this thread, we wouldn't be debating their authenticity. But, because I don't enjoy the recognition here that others do, my gift of knowledge falls on deaf ears. I find myself warning people who don't appreciate my efforts or expertise, so why bother? I hate to adopt the attitude that if you don't want to listen, you deserve to get burned but that where I am after exchanges like this.
As far as regulation goes, I get that there are many who believe that there is already too much government regulation but I don't see anyone suggesting that we don't need laws or law enforcement to protect our property. So, we do need SOME regulation and the present level does not prevent widespread ripoffs which seem to proliferate now as much as ever. I'm not pushing for more regulation but asking for solutions, other than regulation.
I feel education is maybe our best tool, but an individual needs to be able to evaluate the information and determine if the source seems reliable. The style of the CC mintmarks is wrong and strike is terrible compared to genuine CCs. Please pay attention and evaluate my reasons for condemning these, or you'll never be able to make these determinations yourselves. Oh, and looking at at least a few hundred thousand silver dollars is helpful, too.
I'm trying to teach you guys to fish and not just catch the fish for you.
Wow did not know you are so experienced! Thank you for this post . I for one believe you .
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Many years ago, well before the advent of the grading services, a young guy (me) had the benefit of learning how to grade and detect counterfeits from some well respected dealers in the industry.
One of the lessons—learning the “look” of a genuine coin for a particular series and that of the counterfeit. I’ll never forget the lesson-or how certain coins /issues are supposed to “look”.
You can’t learn that from pics in a book. Someone has to teach you.
I was very grateful for those that took the time to pass along that knowledge.
Several years ago, i bought a guys morgan dollar collection from Sanford, NC. He had bought a CC roll off ebay some years earlier for 4500.00. He wanted me to buy it intacked, but I refused. Told him its a scam, that what was inside was two or three CC's, (most likely common CC) and rest common dates. We went back and forth for a while, and I finally said, if you let me open this roll, Ill pay you the 4500 if all cc, and if not, Ill buy them as they are. Sure enough, opened the roll and 2 common cc' and rest 80-s 81s and such. He was actually in disbelief, as how can somebody do such a thing.
When I consider @Prof-Irwin-Corey I smile.
When I consider @jmlanzaf my reaction is the opposite. Upon more consideration, it has much to do with your pattern of undermining the authority or credibility of others.
Is this in reference to Perry Hall or myself? I never questioned anyone's authority or credibility. The only thing I "complained" about was Russell's braggadocio which is quite another matter. In fact, I agreed with him that the coins looked bad.
You might want to reconsider your reconsideration...or not.
Always nice to hear from you. I should probably send you rent for the space I'm taking up in your head.
I felt I should included @PerryHall in Bragathon 2021, but he's a Mini-Me to you in attitude. Your skillfulness at discourse and true competence in some areas gives your profile persona a general aura of relative competence that makes you more insidiously dangerous.
Your contempt is palpable, your disingenuousness delicious. You out-humble Uriah Heep.
I included @PerryHall's reference because neither you nor Perry know enough about coins or either of us to be able to rate the knowledge of @sellitstore or myself. Unlike us, neither of you has "been there" and "done that".
The below @jmlanzaf quote is the tip of the iceberg.
"I'm getting tired of him telling us (without bragging, of course) how knowledgeable he is and how much he's trying to educate us and save numismatics This forum identifies counterfeits on eBay all of the time and we join forces to get them removed."
What a supercilious, snide, disrespectful and toxic comment.
But I appreciate your egalitarian, counter-elitist/meritocratic praise of the efficacy of the Forum's collective wisdom. 'Cause we know all opinions are worth the same. I'm trying to recall if I've ever seen any evidence that you know how to grade. Or authenticate? Or what's rare. As you are, as we have been told, an Ebay dealer, you'd likely fit in what I'd consider the lower tier. As numismatists they are likely two levels above their customers in knowledge. Beyond that, they seem to mostly "know the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Living rent-free in my head? On the basis of that one post? My argument is with PCGS management. I'd have said nothing but for your dismissive undermining of both the personage and information of a fellow numismatist whose experience has spoken for itself many times here. But I did quote/repeat it with a sad/grumpy emoji to show my empathy and identification with what I imagined to be @sellitstore's reaction. Your gratuitous sabotage of many of my (as well as many others') comments has encouraged me to believe my efforts to inform this population are not worth the effort of swimming upstream against the (very effective) barriers to facile communication you constantly erect. But, lest you overvalue your importance, know that the loss of the disagree button grieves me more.
Despite your puerile imaginings, I do not sit in front of my monitor all day paralyzed as I watch your sometimes skillfully subtle insults to my overly-fragile ego bouncing around in my brain like B-B's in a box-car. Perhaps your (real and/or imagined) overall lack of efficacy in the real world causes you sufficient anxiety that you feel most in control when you can squelch those who threaten you most. I am ethically restrained from offering any clinical diagnosis relating to pathological narcissism.
Likely you inhabited an undramatically unhappy childhood. Cheap speculation, more worthy of a cocktail party or clinicians' convention, but your hostility shows its teeth too often. Notwithstanding that, screw your angst or whatever it is that impels you to attack. Here, we really don't have to go any deeper. On the bourse floor, in the auction room or (opposite end of the table!) out for Taco Tuesday with the gang, you would be just a another pissantschmucktroll unpleasant nonentity to me. It's unclear to me what about me it might be that has caused you to view me with such obvious contempt. Suffice it to say that, as adored as I know I will be when I enter, regnant, in triumph into the halls of Valhalla, your contempt will still mean more to me than most people's praise.
It appears quite difficult for you to consistently let a disagreeable comment get past you without hearing your reaction. Anyone who differs from you must be "cut down to size". FWIW, I worked as a psychotherapist at an anti-domestic violence agency here in NJ. I've put up with torrents of direct verbal abuse, dealt with the sequela of vicarious traumatization and hardly ever woke up in the middle of the night feeling my clients or my own pain or rage. I do have to admit that whenever I see your avatar I experience a minor twinge of disgust, but you likely will be disappointed in knowing your effect on my life is comparable to that of the bad fish taco I had for lunch.
And ask yourself this (though it's clearly intended for other readers):
if you knew (for whatever reason) that you were living rent-free in my head and I had some apparent vulnerability, and also knowing the usefulness of my information, what twisted rationale could you have beyond infantile selfish sadistic satisfaction that would contribute directly to thwarting the dissemination of that information?
While he was in no way referring to you either directly or indirectly in this manner, retired cardiac surgeon @BigMoose once speculated, in a sadly quite judgmental tone, upon the "increasing incidence of recto-cranial prolapse in the population".
You can't make me not like you. LOL.
Sorry, but i felt the need to defend my peeps. And Russell appeared to me to be unnecessarily rude to them. But, I reiterate, I never questioned his judgment about the coins themselves.
I am who I am. I am what I am. I don't pretend to be anything else. I remain somewhat surprised that I bother you so much that you cannot engage in any discourse with me without peppering your text with insults. I'm not the one who is engaging in petty insults. Yet you somehow accuse me of hostility?
I have not questioned your knowledge. I have never asked you not to post here. That was your choice. I have done NOTHING at any time to attempt to thwart "the dissemination of that information". Your pseudo-exile is and was self-imposed.
@jdimmick said:
Several years ago, i bought a guys morgan dollar collection from Sanford, NC. He had bought a CC roll off ebay some years earlier for 4500.00. He wanted me to buy it intacked, but I refused. Told him its a scam, that what was inside was two or three CC's, (most likely common CC) and rest common dates. We went back and forth for a while, and I finally said, if you let me open this roll, Ill pay you the 4500 if all cc, and if not, Ill buy them as they are. Sure enough, opened the roll and 2 common cc' and rest 80-s 81s and such. He was actually in disbelief, as how can somebody do such a thing.
jim
Except that scam works best if the end coins are genuine.
When I consider @Prof-Irwin-Corey I smile.
When I consider @jmlanzaf my reaction is the opposite. Upon more consideration, it has much to do with your pattern of undermining the authority or credibility of others.
Is this in reference to Perry Hall or myself? I never questioned anyone's authority or credibility. The only thing I "complained" about was Russell's braggadocio which is quite another matter. In fact, I agreed with him that the coins looked bad.
You might want to reconsider your reconsideration...or not.
Always nice to hear from you. I should probably send you rent for the space I'm taking up in your head.
I felt I should included @PerryHall in Bragathon 2021, but he's a Mini-Me to you in attitude. Your skillfulness at discourse and true competence in some areas gives your profile persona a general aura of relative competence that makes you more insidiously dangerous.
Your contempt is palpable, your disingenuousness delicious. You out-humble Uriah Heep.
I included @PerryHall's reference because neither you nor Perry know enough about coins or either of us to be able to rate the knowledge of @sellitstore or myself. Unlike us, neither of you has "been there" and "done that".
The below @jmlanzaf quote is the tip of the iceberg.
"I'm getting tired of him telling us (without bragging, of course) how knowledgeable he is and how much he's trying to educate us and save numismatics This forum identifies counterfeits on eBay all of the time and we join forces to get them removed."
What a supercilious, snide, disrespectful and toxic comment.
But I appreciate your egalitarian, counter-elitist/meritocratic praise of the efficacy of the Forum's collective wisdom. 'Cause we know all opinions are worth the same. I'm trying to recall if I've ever seen any evidence that you know how to grade. Or authenticate? Or what's rare. As you are, as we have been told, an Ebay dealer, you'd likely fit in what I'd consider the lower tier. As numismatists they are likely two levels above their customers in knowledge. Beyond that, they seem to mostly "know the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Living rent-free in my head? On the basis of that one post? My argument is with PCGS management. I'd have said nothing but for your dismissive undermining of both the personage and information of a fellow numismatist whose experience has spoken for itself many times here. But I did quote/repeat it with a sad/grumpy emoji to show my empathy and identification with what I imagined to be @sellitstore's reaction. Your gratuitous sabotage of many of my (as well as many others') comments has encouraged me to believe my efforts to inform this population are not worth the effort of swimming upstream against the (very effective) barriers to facile communication you constantly erect. But, lest you overvalue your importance, know that the loss of the disagree button grieves me more.
Despite your puerile imaginings, I do not sit in front of my monitor all day paralyzed as I watch your sometimes skillfully subtle insults to my overly-fragile ego bouncing around in my brain like B-B's in a box-car. Perhaps your (real and/or imagined) overall lack of efficacy in the real world causes you sufficient anxiety that you feel most in control when you can squelch those who threaten you most. I am ethically restrained from offering any clinical diagnosis relating to pathological narcissism.
Likely you inhabited an undramatically unhappy childhood. Cheap speculation, more worthy of a cocktail party or clinicians' convention, but your hostility shows its teeth too often. Notwithstanding that, screw your angst or whatever it is that impels you to attack. Here, we really don't have to go any deeper. On the bourse floor, in the auction room or (opposite end of the table!) out for Taco Tuesday with the gang, you would be just a another pissantschmucktroll unpleasant nonentity to me. It's unclear to me what about me it might be that has caused you to view me with such obvious contempt. Suffice it to say that, as adored as I know I will be when I enter, regnant, in triumph into the halls of Valhalla, your contempt will still mean more to me than most people's praise.
It appears quite difficult for you to consistently let a disagreeable comment get past you without hearing your reaction. Anyone who differs from you must be "cut down to size". FWIW, I worked as a psychotherapist at an anti-domestic violence agency here in NJ. I've put up with torrents of direct verbal abuse, dealt with the sequela of vicarious traumatization and hardly ever woke up in the middle of the night feeling my clients or my own pain or rage. I do have to admit that whenever I see your avatar I experience a minor twinge of disgust, but you likely will be disappointed in knowing your effect on my life is comparable to that of the bad fish taco I had for lunch.
And ask yourself this (though it's clearly intended for other readers):
if you knew (for whatever reason) that you were living rent-free in my head and I had some apparent vulnerability, and also knowing the usefulness of my information, what twisted rationale could you have beyond infantile selfish sadistic satisfaction that would contribute directly to thwarting the dissemination of that information?
While he was in no way referring to you either directly or indirectly in this manner, retired cardiac surgeon @BigMoose once speculated, in a sadly quite judgmental tone, upon the "increasing incidence of recto-cranial prolapse in the population".
You can't make me not like you. LOL.
Sorry, but i felt the need to defend my peeps. And Russell appeared to me to be unnecessarily rude to them. But, I reiterate, I never questioned his judgment about the coins themselves.
I am who I am. I am what I am. I don't pretend to be anything else. I remain somewhat surprised that I bother you so much that you cannot engage in any discourse with me without peppering your text with insults. I'm not the one who is engaging in petty insults. Yet you somehow accuse me of hostility?
I have not questioned your knowledge. I have never asked you not to post here. That was your choice. I have done NOTHING at any time to attempt to thwart "the dissemination of that information". Your pseudo-exile is and was self-imposed.
To misquote Groucho
"The secret of success in America is sincerity and fair dealing. Once you can fake those, you've got it made"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I'm going to go see who's ready to rumble down at @coinasaurus' "Is Coin Dealering Like Pro Wrestling?" thread. With a title like that, it's likely @Pro-Irwin-Corey is going to be the referee
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@sellitstore said:
We probably can all agree that we don't like to see this kind of offering go unchecked. The coins are clearly counterfeit.
So what would be a better way to stop this sort of thing? Stepped up Federal enforcement? State or local enforcement and new laws? Or a different approach?
Real coins, but the wrapper isn't . The only CC dollars in the roll are the ones on the ends. Sellers on ebay usually show the bank from Carson City, NV.
Sorry, but i felt the need to defend my peeps. And Russell appeared to me to be unnecessarily rude to them.
That was the comment that made me laugh out loud. They need to be defended against my rudeness. Please speak up if you want @jmlanzaf defending unspecified readers against rudeness. All of his followers please stand up and identify yourselves, otherwise you are anonymous posters who should be ignored by the standards that others have stated above in this thread.
Is @jmlanzaf's position elected or (self) appointed? Maybe they are really MY peeps since I'm the one giving them useful information.
And since I've introduced myself, perhaps @jmlanzaf and his numerous followers should do the same, so that we are not anonymous, and can all trust each other a bit more. After all, I was criticized me for being anonymous-that just might be considered a bit rude, too, so I corrected it. What have you done to tone it down a bit?
"Some folks look for answers, others look for fights...."- Robert Hunter, "Playing in the Band"
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
@sellitstore said:
We probably can all agree that we don't like to see this kind of offering go unchecked. The coins are clearly counterfeit.
So what would be a better way to stop this sort of thing? Stepped up Federal enforcement? State or local enforcement and new laws? Or a different approach?
Real coins, but the wrapper isn't . The only CC dollars in the roll are the ones on the ends. Sellers on ebay usually show the bank from Carson City, NV.
No, the coins are clearly not real. Sometimes this scam uses real coins but not this time. These are 100% fake from 3 feet away, as confirmed by other experts here. Who cares about the wrapper. Banks were not wrapping and circulating BU CC dollars in the West during the early 1950s (or 40s or 30s), so this roll is pure fantasy.
The Treasury didn't start releasing better date dollars bags until the late 1950s or early 60s and dealers noticed and began snapping them up. Four bags of 1860O and a bag of 1859O seated dollars were among the silver dollars stored for years and now released at face value. One of the greatest rarities in BU, the 1903O, were released in quantity and plummeted in value. Lots of better dates became much more common. And lots of the silver dollars in storage during the 20th century were Peace dollars, recoined from Morgans melted as a result of the 1918 Pittman Act. Yes, there were better silver dollars held by the Treasury during the 20th century, but they didn't start to be released until well after this Montana bank had closed. So the wrapper is a moot point.
Stick around @jmlanzaf, you might learn something hanging with "my peeps". I still learn new information here and I'd love to learn something from you. Is that possible?
Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
@sellitstore said:
We probably can all agree that we don't like to see this kind of offering go unchecked. The coins are clearly counterfeit.
So what would be a better way to stop this sort of thing? Stepped up Federal enforcement? State or local enforcement and new laws? Or a different approach?
Real coins, but the wrapper isn't . The only CC dollars in the roll are the ones on the ends. Sellers on ebay usually show the bank from Carson City, NV.
No, the coins are clearly not real. Sometimes this scam uses real coins but not this time. These are 100% fake from 3 feet away, as confirmed by other experts here. Who cares about the wrapper. Banks were not wrapping and circulating BU CC dollars in the West during the early 1950s (or 40s or 30s), so this roll is pure fantasy.
The Treasury didn't start releasing better date dollars bags until the late 1950s or early 60s and dealers noticed and began snapping them up. Four bags of 1860O and a bag of 1859O seated dollars were among the silver dollars stored for years and now released at face value. One of the greatest rarities in BU, the 1903O, were released in quantity and plummeted in value. Lots of better dates became much more common. And lots of the silver dollars in storage during the 20th century were Peace dollars, recoined from Morgans melted as a result of the 1918 Pittman Act. Yes, there were better silver dollars held by the Treasury during the 20th century, but they didn't start to be released until well after this Montana bank had closed. So the wrapper is a moot point.
Stick around @jmlanzaf, you might learn something hanging with "my peeps". I still learn new information here and I'd love to learn something from you. Is that possible?
You can keep tossing around insults. It adds nothing to your credentials or your argument.
You are incapable of learning anything from me. You are not open to dialogue or self-reflection.
This whole thread was derailed by your lack of directness. Rather than simply ask the direct question in which you were interested, you posted a link to an auction and then asked a series of questions which clouded the question you wanted to ask which I now understand to be: "Is there anything other than law enforcement that can be done to limit the sale of counterfeits?" When you started with a headline that said "Government Regulation" and then asked about Federal and state regulation before asking the question about alternatives, you clouded the question.
Posting the link to the auction was also a mistake. Multiple posters then chose to debate the specific alleged fraud rather than address the general question. As a result, people questioned your claim of authenticity and speculated about the originality of the wrapper and contents of the roll.
Finally, when challenged on your assessment of authenticity of the coins [not by me], you got angry and then attempted to passive-aggressively establish your credentials. [Paraphrasing.] I could blow you away with my credentials and experience, but I don't want to brag.
Then, inexplicably, you got angry at me for the completely innocuous statement from me that:
"This particular listing looks off, but not definitively to me based on those photos. But I'm not really sure why that should make me want to create a Federal Bureau of Auction Investigations to deal with the problem."
To which you responded with the following:
"I keep calling for suggestions other than regulation but @jmlanzaf simply doesn't seem to understand that. I guess it's because he's getting tired. I'm tired of my words being ignored. And I'm pretty sure that I have more to contribute than @jmlanzaf, after watching him for several years now. Read both of our past posts."
So, in fairness, who is it that escalated this thread, me or you? And then Rick came in with his usual collection of insults levied against me. Even at this late date, I have still not questioned the your qualifications or Rick's. I haven't questioned anything other than your attitude. An attitude that led you to take a petty pot shot at me in your latest response to a completely different poster.
With respect,
Dr. Joseph M. Lanzafame
Senior Lecturer
Rochester Institute of Technology
@sellitstore said:
We probably can all agree that we don't like to see this kind of offering go unchecked. The coins are clearly counterfeit.
So what would be a better way to stop this sort of thing? Stepped up Federal enforcement? State or local enforcement and new laws? Or a different approach?
Real coins, but the wrapper isn't . The only CC dollars in the roll are the ones on the ends. Sellers on ebay usually show the bank from Carson City, NV.
No, the coins are clearly not real. Sometimes this scam uses real coins but not this time. These are 100% fake from 3 feet away, as confirmed by other experts here. Who cares about the wrapper. Banks were not wrapping and circulating BU CC dollars in the West during the early 1950s (or 40s or 30s), so this roll is pure fantasy.
The Treasury didn't start releasing better date dollars bags until the late 1950s or early 60s and dealers noticed and began snapping them up. Four bags of 1860O and a bag of 1859O seated dollars were among the silver dollars stored for years and now released at face value. One of the greatest rarities in BU, the 1903O, were released in quantity and plummeted in value. Lots of better dates became much more common. And lots of the silver dollars in storage during the 20th century were Peace dollars, recoined from Morgans melted as a result of the 1918 Pittman Act. Yes, there were better silver dollars held by the Treasury during the 20th century, but they didn't start to be released until well after this Montana bank had closed. So the wrapper is a moot point.
Stick around @jmlanzaf, you might learn something hanging with "my peeps". I still learn new information here and I'd love to learn something from you. Is that possible?
You can keep tossing around insults. It adds nothing to your credentials or your argument.
You are incapable of learning anything from me. You are not open to dialogue or self-reflection.
This whole thread was derailed by your lack of directness. Rather than simply ask the direct question in which you were interested, you posted a link to an auction and then asked a series of questions which clouded the question you wanted to ask which I now understand to be: "Is there anything other than law enforcement that can be done to limit the sale of counterfeits?" When you started with a headline that said "Government Regulation" and then asked about Federal and state regulation before asking the question about alternatives, you clouded the question.
Posting the link to the auction was also a mistake. Multiple posters then chose to debate the specific alleged fraud rather than address the general question. As a result, people questioned your claim of authenticity and speculated about the originality of the wrapper and contents of the roll.
Finally, when challenged on your assessment of authenticity of the coins [not by me], you got angry and then attempted to passive-aggressively establish your credentials. [Paraphrasing.] I could blow you away with my credentials and experience, but I don't want to brag.
Then, inexplicably, you got angry at me for the completely innocuous statement from me that:
"This particular listing looks off, but not definitively to me based on those photos. But I'm not really sure why that should make me want to create a Federal Bureau of Auction Investigations to deal with the problem."
To which you responded with the following:
"I keep calling for suggestions other than regulation but @jmlanzaf simply doesn't seem to understand that. I guess it's because he's getting tired. I'm tired of my words being ignored. And I'm pretty sure that I have more to contribute than @jmlanzaf, after watching him for several years now. Read both of our past posts."
So, in fairness, who is it that escalated this thread, me or you? And then Rick came in with his usual collection of insults levied against me. Even at this late date, I have still not questioned the your qualifications or Rick's. I haven't questioned anything other than your attitude. An attitude that led you to take a petty pot shot at me in your latest response to a completely different poster.
With respect,
Dr. Joseph M. Lanzafame
Senior Lecturer
Rochester Institute of Technology
**Let it go Joe. ** You are digging a hole for yourself the more you post. That is the point many here are trying to make.
@sellitstore said:
We probably can all agree that we don't like to see this kind of offering go unchecked. The coins are clearly counterfeit.
So what would be a better way to stop this sort of thing? Stepped up Federal enforcement? State or local enforcement and new laws? Or a different approach?
Real coins, but the wrapper isn't . The only CC dollars in the roll are the ones on the ends. Sellers on ebay usually show the bank from Carson City, NV.
No, the coins are clearly not real. Sometimes this scam uses real coins but not this time. These are 100% fake from 3 feet away, as confirmed by other experts here. Who cares about the wrapper. Banks were not wrapping and circulating BU CC dollars in the West during the early 1950s (or 40s or 30s), so this roll is pure fantasy.
The Treasury didn't start releasing better date dollars bags until the late 1950s or early 60s and dealers noticed and began snapping them up. Four bags of 1860O and a bag of 1859O seated dollars were among the silver dollars stored for years and now released at face value. One of the greatest rarities in BU, the 1903O, were released in quantity and plummeted in value. Lots of better dates became much more common. And lots of the silver dollars in storage during the 20th century were Peace dollars, recoined from Morgans melted as a result of the 1918 Pittman Act. Yes, there were better silver dollars held by the Treasury during the 20th century, but they didn't start to be released until well after this Montana bank had closed. So the wrapper is a moot point.
Stick around @jmlanzaf, you might learn something hanging with "my peeps". I still learn new information here and I'd love to learn something from you. Is that possible?
You can keep tossing around insults. It adds nothing to your credentials or your argument.
You are incapable of learning anything from me. You are not open to dialogue or self-reflection.
This whole thread was derailed by your lack of directness. Rather than simply ask the direct question in which you were interested, you posted a link to an auction and then asked a series of questions which clouded the question you wanted to ask which I now understand to be: "Is there anything other than law enforcement that can be done to limit the sale of counterfeits?" When you started with a headline that said "Government Regulation" and then asked about Federal and state regulation before asking the question about alternatives, you clouded the question.
Posting the link to the auction was also a mistake. Multiple posters then chose to debate the specific alleged fraud rather than address the general question. As a result, people questioned your claim of authenticity and speculated about the originality of the wrapper and contents of the roll.
Finally, when challenged on your assessment of authenticity of the coins [not by me], you got angry and then attempted to passive-aggressively establish your credentials. [Paraphrasing.] I could blow you away with my credentials and experience, but I don't want to brag.
Then, inexplicably, you got angry at me for the completely innocuous statement from me that:
"This particular listing looks off, but not definitively to me based on those photos. But I'm not really sure why that should make me want to create a Federal Bureau of Auction Investigations to deal with the problem."
To which you responded with the following:
"I keep calling for suggestions other than regulation but @jmlanzaf simply doesn't seem to understand that. I guess it's because he's getting tired. I'm tired of my words being ignored. And I'm pretty sure that I have more to contribute than @jmlanzaf, after watching him for several years now. Read both of our past posts."
So, in fairness, who is it that escalated this thread, me or you? And then Rick came in with his usual collection of insults levied against me. Even at this late date, I have still not questioned the your qualifications or Rick's. I haven't questioned anything other than your attitude. An attitude that led you to take a petty pot shot at me in your latest response to a completely different poster.
With respect,
Dr. Joseph M. Lanzafame
Senior Lecturer
Rochester Institute of Technology
**Let it go Joe. ** You are digging a hole for yourself the more you post. That is the point many here are trying to make.
Comments
If I understand correctly, the OP is saying not that the interior coins are not likely to be all CCs and unsearched, but that the coins on the end of the rolls are counterfeit, yes?
Yes
Although the interior is anyone's guess
While "it doesn't look right" is how most counterfeits are identified, obviously it isn't the most compelling argument from an anonymous online poster.
I've been a member here since 2006. What make me "anonymous"? Only the fact that you don't know that my name is Russell Kaye. I'm no longer anonymous. If you had bothered to read my past threads perhaps you would be better able to discern my expertise. If I'm anonymous to you, you are lazy because there is plenty of info about me at your fingertips.
This particular listing looks off, but not definitively to me based on those photos. But I'm not really sure why that should make me want to create a Federal Bureau of Auction Investigations to deal with the problem.
I keep calling for suggestions other than regulation but @jmlanzaf simply doesn't seem to understand that. I guess it's because he's getting tired. I'm tired of my words being ignored. And I'm pretty sure that I have more to contribute than @jmlanzaf, after watching him for several years now. Read both of our past posts. Start reading the paper money category and follow me there, where I'm not anonymous.
Don't worry, my future educational threads will be limited to the paper money board. My previous threads on counterfeit detection there have been very well received and if you are interested, look for me there. Forgive me for trying to help educate you coin guys. What could I possibly know?
-An anonymous poster, Russell Kaye, ANA LM 3572, SPMC life member, etc, etc, etc.
P.S. "It just looks off" was the answer that I always got when trying to learn. I never understood that until I had seen several hundred thousand silver dollars. THEN you understand "It just looks off." And That's NOT what I said. I pointed specifically to the mintmark style and poor strike. Who needs unfair comments like this? Later.
all you need to do is to rigidly enforce present laws!
But it is much easier for the law to come down hard on some kid who just smoked his first joint and got cought.
or if someone even admits to have some light stuff in his pockets while in a Federal border crossing where both sides , adjoining states / countries, are tolerant of small possession. BUT since this is a FED building.... you go to jail.
easier than finding fake coins or currency.
Googled you, this is from the first result I got:
Russ, what are the tell tale signs the Tallahasse is a fake (so I can check mine)?
The easiest way is to compare a genuine and a fake side by side as the difference becomes obvious then. Since most poeple won't be able to do this, here is a scan of a real one. The most obvious difference between this note and the fake is the color, especially on the back. Real one has vibrant, bright green back while fake has dull, washed out color. Look at close up of imprint on face of copy. Letters aren't sharp and well formed as on originals. In fact, all detail on the copy is less distinct than on an engraved note. These Tallahassee copies are lithgraphed and lack the fine detail of an engraved note.
Another fake. Can't tell by detail (or lack) because scan isn't large and sharp enough but dull color is the dead giveaway, as is the case on all of these Tallahassee copies. -Russell Kaye, Sellitstore
I suspect if you had responded to the questioning of the "it doesn't look right" comment in a similar fashion instead of getting mad because your expertise was not respected, the thread might have gone more smoothly.
>
I'm getting tired of just about every piece of crap that comes out of your yap.
That's the attitude that has sufficiently disgusted me over time that I have chosen to no longer to post here.
I'm very happy that you have a stable teaching job at a college or university. You are very knowledgeable in some minor areas of numismatics of great interest to many here. I have seen few indicators you know but little else. You are, however, very good at flashing your debating(?) skill(?) at taking both sides of an argument. But that's theory.
@PerryHall I'm Rick Sear. I do practice.
My incomplete brag list.
World--class grader.. help found NGC
Taught grading at ANA Summer seminar for many years.
Have owned, bought and sold
Two 1795 $10's in gem (Eliasberg and Norman Stack)\
Six Rolled Edge $10's - five gem
Gem 1821 proof QE
Five proof Classic QE's
Gem 1838 Proof $10
Garrett 1804 $1
Made first 1892-S $1 MS67 PCGS
Amon Carter 1893-O $1 Gem DMPL
Greysheet contributor 1980
So many pre-1856 proof Type coins (mostly gem) I can't count.
It's been 40 years a pro and 35 years at the top. Essentially retired for several years, I can still walk off any bourse floor in the country with a million bucks worth of coins on little else but my signature.
The poets and other literati here will perhaps understand the irony of "Gaze upon my works, oh ye mighty, and despair".
I'm getting tired of you posing as some arbiter of truth when it seems more often to be an occasion for gratuitous sarcasm.
Pot calling the kettle black? Can I be sarcastic? You bet!
I deliver(ed) a lot of truth about areas of the coin universe of which you have no experience and likely no conception.
I earned my cred on the street, not in a classroom or message board.
There are two World's Greatest Authorities.
When I consider @Prof-Irwin-Corey I smile.
When I consider @jmlanzaf my reaction is the opposite.
Upon more consideration, it has much to do with your pattern of undermining the authority or credibility of others.
PS. As per @sellitstore, the CC "coins" seem (poor lighting) obvious fakes from three feet away.
Based on the ad hominem nature of this screed, I expect to be banned again. My PMs will continue. See you in another year.
Even if we assume the two CC’s are real (which they probably aren’t) what’s the likelihood of finding two Morgans with the reverses positioned in the roll so that the CC is shown in a very questionable old bank roll?
I’m guessing slim to none.
They should hire some people from the TPGs. Doesn't it take a TPG grader only 3 seconds for easy-to-identify counterfeits?
Hey, Rick, missed you buddy. Glad to see that you are well.
Can you see me blushing? This is the nicest thing you've ever said to me!
Stay well, big guy. Stick around. We miss you.
Sorry, dude, I was confused by your original post in this thread where you asked about "Stepped up Federal enforcement", "State or local enforcement", or "new laws". I guess I shouldn't read all the words...and, of course, there's the TITLE OF THIS THREAD. Very clever of you to throw all those red herrings out there, Russell. Do you write mystery novels?
Is that what you meant about fish...red herrings? Can you teach me how to fish for red herrings or do you just show me the red herrings?
I don't imagine the SS is staring at the coin for 3 months. It's probably 2.99 months of paperwork and queueing followed by 3 minutes of actually looking at the coin.
I would like to publicly thank Rick for doing what needed to be done so much better than I could. Indeed, his rhetorical skills and wit are matched by few and he is one of the reasons that I read threads on the coin side.
I made the mistake of taking a certain poster too seriously, and it's not the first time, with this particular individual. My fault and I'll try not to make the same mistake again.
y > @sellitstore said:
disagree
Is this in reference to Perry Hall or myself? I never questioned anyone's authority or credibility. The only thing I "complained" about was Russell's braggadocio which is quite another matter. In fact, I agreed with him that the coins looked bad.
You might want to reconsider your reconsideration...or not.
Always nice to hear from you. I should probably send you rent for the space I'm taking up in your head.
.> @jmlanzaf said:
I felt I should included @PerryHall in Bragathon 2021, but he's a Mini-Me to you in attitude. Your skillfulness at discourse and true competence in some areas gives your profile persona a general aura of relative competence that makes you more insidiously dangerous.
Your contempt is palpable, your disingenuousness delicious. You out-humble Uriah Heep.
I included @PerryHall's reference because neither you nor Perry know enough about coins or either of us to be able to rate the knowledge of @sellitstore or myself. Unlike us, neither of you has "been there" and "done that".
The below @jmlanzaf quote is the tip of the iceberg.
"I'm getting tired of him telling us (without bragging, of course) how knowledgeable he is and how much he's trying to educate us and save numismatics This forum identifies counterfeits on eBay all of the time and we join forces to get them removed."
What a supercilious, snide, disrespectful and toxic comment.
But I appreciate your egalitarian, counter-elitist/meritocratic praise of the efficacy of the Forum's collective wisdom. 'Cause we know all opinions are worth the same. I'm trying to recall if I've ever seen any evidence that you know how to grade. Or authenticate? Or what's rare. As you are, as we have been told, an Ebay dealer, you'd likely fit in what I'd consider the lower tier. As numismatists they are likely two levels above their customers in knowledge. Beyond that, they seem to mostly "know the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Living rent-free in my head? On the basis of that one post? My argument is with PCGS management. I'd have said nothing but for your dismissive undermining of both the personage and information of a fellow numismatist whose experience has spoken for itself many times here. But I did quote/repeat it with a sad/grumpy emoji to show my empathy and identification with what I imagined to be @sellitstore's reaction. Your gratuitous sabotage of many of my (as well as many others') comments has encouraged me to believe my efforts to inform this population are not worth the effort of swimming upstream against the (very effective) barriers to facile communication you constantly erect. But, lest you overvalue your importance, know that the loss of the disagree button grieves me more.
Despite your puerile imaginings, I do not sit in front of my monitor all day paralyzed as I watch your sometimes skillfully subtle insults to my overly-fragile ego bouncing around in my brain like B-B's in a box-car. Perhaps your (real and/or imagined) overall lack of efficacy in the real world causes you sufficient anxiety that you feel most in control when you can squelch those who threaten you most. I am ethically restrained from offering any clinical diagnosis relating to pathological narcissism.
Likely you inhabited an undramatically unhappy childhood.
Cheap speculation, more worthy of a cocktail party or clinicians' convention, but your hostility shows its teeth too often. Notwithstanding that, screw your angst or whatever it is that impels you to attack. Here, we really don't have to go any deeper. On the bourse floor, in the auction room or (opposite end of the table!) out for Taco Tuesday with the gang, you would be just a another pissant schmuck troll unpleasant nonentity to me. It's unclear to me what about me it might be that has caused you to view me with such obvious contempt. Suffice it to say that, as adored as I know I will be when I enter, regnant, in triumph into the halls of Valhalla, your contempt will still mean more to me than most people's praise.
It appears quite difficult for you to consistently let a disagreeable comment get past you without hearing your reaction. Anyone who differs from you must be "cut down to size". FWIW, I worked as a psychotherapist at an anti-domestic violence agency here in NJ. I've put up with torrents of direct verbal abuse, dealt with the sequela of vicarious traumatization and hardly ever woke up in the middle of the night feeling my clients or my own pain or rage. I do have to admit that whenever I see your avatar I experience a minor twinge of disgust, but you likely will be disappointed in knowing your effect on my life is comparable to that of the bad fish taco I had for lunch.
And ask yourself this (though it's clearly intended for other readers):
if you knew (for whatever reason) that you were living rent-free in my head and I had some apparent vulnerability, and also knowing the usefulness of my information, what twisted rationale could you have beyond infantile selfish sadistic satisfaction that would contribute directly to thwarting the dissemination of that information?
While he was in no way referring to you either directly or indirectly in this manner, retired cardiac surgeon @BigMoose once speculated, in a sadly quite judgmental tone, upon the "increasing incidence of recto-cranial prolapse in the population".
Wow did not know you are so experienced! Thank you for this post . I for one believe you .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Many years ago, well before the advent of the grading services, a young guy (me) had the benefit of learning how to grade and detect counterfeits from some well respected dealers in the industry.
One of the lessons—learning the “look” of a genuine coin for a particular series and that of the counterfeit. I’ll never forget the lesson-or how certain coins /issues are supposed to “look”.
You can’t learn that from pics in a book. Someone has to teach you.
I was very grateful for those that took the time to pass along that knowledge.
Several years ago, i bought a guys morgan dollar collection from Sanford, NC. He had bought a CC roll off ebay some years earlier for 4500.00. He wanted me to buy it intacked, but I refused. Told him its a scam, that what was inside was two or three CC's, (most likely common CC) and rest common dates. We went back and forth for a while, and I finally said, if you let me open this roll, Ill pay you the 4500 if all cc, and if not, Ill buy them as they are. Sure enough, opened the roll and 2 common cc' and rest 80-s 81s and such. He was actually in disbelief, as how can somebody do such a thing.
jim
You can't make me not like you. LOL.
Sorry, but i felt the need to defend my peeps. And Russell appeared to me to be unnecessarily rude to them. But, I reiterate, I never questioned his judgment about the coins themselves.
I am who I am. I am what I am. I don't pretend to be anything else. I remain somewhat surprised that I bother you so much that you cannot engage in any discourse with me without peppering your text with insults. I'm not the one who is engaging in petty insults. Yet you somehow accuse me of hostility?
I have not questioned your knowledge. I have never asked you not to post here. That was your choice. I have done NOTHING at any time to attempt to thwart "the dissemination of that information". Your pseudo-exile is and was self-imposed.
Except that scam works best if the end coins are genuine.
To misquote Groucho
"The secret of success in America is sincerity and fair dealing. Once you can fake those, you've got it made"
"Defend your peeps"?
I'm going to go see who's ready to rumble down at @coinasaurus' "Is Coin Dealering Like Pro Wrestling?" thread. With a title like that, it's likely @Pro-Irwin-Corey is going to be the referee
Real coins, but the wrapper isn't . The only CC dollars in the roll are the ones on the ends. Sellers on ebay usually show the bank from Carson City, NV.
Sorry, but i felt the need to defend my peeps. And Russell appeared to me to be unnecessarily rude to them.
That was the comment that made me laugh out loud. They need to be defended against my rudeness. Please speak up if you want @jmlanzaf defending unspecified readers against rudeness. All of his followers please stand up and identify yourselves, otherwise you are anonymous posters who should be ignored by the standards that others have stated above in this thread.
Is @jmlanzaf's position elected or (self) appointed? Maybe they are really MY peeps since I'm the one giving them useful information.
And since I've introduced myself, perhaps @jmlanzaf and his numerous followers should do the same, so that we are not anonymous, and can all trust each other a bit more. After all, I was criticized me for being anonymous-that just might be considered a bit rude, too, so I corrected it. What have you done to tone it down a bit?
"Some folks look for answers, others look for fights...."- Robert Hunter, "Playing in the Band"
No, the coins are clearly not real. Sometimes this scam uses real coins but not this time. These are 100% fake from 3 feet away, as confirmed by other experts here. Who cares about the wrapper. Banks were not wrapping and circulating BU CC dollars in the West during the early 1950s (or 40s or 30s), so this roll is pure fantasy.
The Treasury didn't start releasing better date dollars bags until the late 1950s or early 60s and dealers noticed and began snapping them up. Four bags of 1860O and a bag of 1859O seated dollars were among the silver dollars stored for years and now released at face value. One of the greatest rarities in BU, the 1903O, were released in quantity and plummeted in value. Lots of better dates became much more common. And lots of the silver dollars in storage during the 20th century were Peace dollars, recoined from Morgans melted as a result of the 1918 Pittman Act. Yes, there were better silver dollars held by the Treasury during the 20th century, but they didn't start to be released until well after this Montana bank had closed. So the wrapper is a moot point.
Stick around @jmlanzaf, you might learn something hanging with "my peeps". I still learn new information here and I'd love to learn something from you. Is that possible?
You can keep tossing around insults. It adds nothing to your credentials or your argument.
You are incapable of learning anything from me. You are not open to dialogue or self-reflection.
This whole thread was derailed by your lack of directness. Rather than simply ask the direct question in which you were interested, you posted a link to an auction and then asked a series of questions which clouded the question you wanted to ask which I now understand to be: "Is there anything other than law enforcement that can be done to limit the sale of counterfeits?" When you started with a headline that said "Government Regulation" and then asked about Federal and state regulation before asking the question about alternatives, you clouded the question.
Posting the link to the auction was also a mistake. Multiple posters then chose to debate the specific alleged fraud rather than address the general question. As a result, people questioned your claim of authenticity and speculated about the originality of the wrapper and contents of the roll.
Finally, when challenged on your assessment of authenticity of the coins [not by me], you got angry and then attempted to passive-aggressively establish your credentials. [Paraphrasing.] I could blow you away with my credentials and experience, but I don't want to brag.
Then, inexplicably, you got angry at me for the completely innocuous statement from me that:
"This particular listing looks off, but not definitively to me based on those photos. But I'm not really sure why that should make me want to create a Federal Bureau of Auction Investigations to deal with the problem."
To which you responded with the following:
"I keep calling for suggestions other than regulation but @jmlanzaf simply doesn't seem to understand that. I guess it's because he's getting tired. I'm tired of my words being ignored. And I'm pretty sure that I have more to contribute than @jmlanzaf, after watching him for several years now. Read both of our past posts."
So, in fairness, who is it that escalated this thread, me or you? And then Rick came in with his usual collection of insults levied against me. Even at this late date, I have still not questioned the your qualifications or Rick's. I haven't questioned anything other than your attitude. An attitude that led you to take a petty pot shot at me in your latest response to a completely different poster.
With respect,
Dr. Joseph M. Lanzafame
Senior Lecturer
Rochester Institute of Technology
You beat me to it. I was going to post the same quote.
Someone should ask the seller that question.
**Let it go Joe. ** You are digging a hole for yourself the more you post. That is the point many here are trying to make.
Okay, consider it gone.
Perhaps a few minds have been changed. At most