A Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies (disinformation and precious metals)
Azurescens
Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
Here is some good Due Diligence for precious metals investors.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2012/7/21/1112509/-The-Gentleperson-s-Guide-to-Forum-Spies
What follows is a lengthy dissertation on how to subvert/co-opt Internet discussion groups. A veritable how-to manual for Forum Trolls and Hijackers.
Why is this important? The GameStop fiasco has laid bare the rigged markets and compromised media. We now know full well market manipulators buy and sell accounts, have harassment campaigns, and get paid to troll internet forums for special interest groups. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) campaigns are regularly employed by these groups. They work particularly well when people have money on the line.
The guide is supposedly derived from a Government document on Counter-Intelligence Professional (COINTELPRO) techniques used by the FBI and other Intelligence agencies.
I've also gone ahead and attached some images. They outline critical thinking skills and have some fun thought exercises. Logical fallacies are some of the weapons market manipulators have in their arsenal.. because they are easy and they work. You see them all the time with bitcoin so this should be helpful, especially false equivalence.
Might be worth a look before reading. I've cut the text off after 25 Rules of Disinformation, which I think is very important reading for stackers/investors, and especially this forum.
The full text is available at the links provided. I hope that this helps you, the investor, recognize FUD campaigns and forum trolling meant to distract or dismay. Buy and hold.
The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies
- COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum
- Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
- Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
- How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent)
- Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum..
There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a 'uncontrolled forum.'
Technique #1 - 'FORUM SLIDING'
If a very sensitive posting of a critical nature has been posted on a forum - it can be quickly removed from public view by 'forum sliding.' In this technique a number of unrelated posts are quietly prepositioned on the forum and allowed to 'age.' Each of these misdirectional forum postings can then be called upon at will to trigger a 'forum slide.' The second requirement is that several fake accounts exist, which can be called upon, to ensure that this technique is not exposed to the public. To trigger a 'forum slide' and 'flush' the critical post out of public view it is simply a matter of logging into each account both real and fake and then 'replying' to prepositined postings with a simple 1 or 2 line comment. This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list, and the critical posting 'slides' down the front page, and quickly out of public view. Although it is difficult or impossible to censor the posting it is now lost in a sea of unrelated and unuseful postings. By this means it becomes effective to keep the readers of the forum reading unrelated and non-issue items.
Technique #2 - 'CONSENSUS CRACKING'
A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at www.abovetopsecret.com) is 'consensus cracking.' To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made - but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger 'evidence' or disinformation in your favour is slowly 'seeded in.' Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then 'abort' the consensus cracking by initiating a 'forum slide.'
Technique #3 - 'TOPIC DILUTION'
Topic dilution is not only effective in forum sliding it is also very useful in keeping the forum readers on unrelated and non-productive issues. This is a critical and useful technique to cause a 'RESOURCE BURN.' By implementing continual and non-related postings that distract and disrupt (trolling ) the forum readers they are more effectively stopped from anything of any real productivity. If the intensity of gradual dilution is intense enough, the readers will effectively stop researching and simply slip into a 'gossip mode.' In this state they can be more easily misdirected away from facts towards uninformed conjecture and opinion. The less informed they are the more effective and easy it becomes to control the entire group in the direction that you would desire the group to go in. It must be stressed that a proper assessment of the psychological capabilities and levels of education is first determined of the group to determine at what level to 'drive in the wedge.' By being too far off topic too quickly it may trigger censorship by a forum moderator.
Technique #4 - 'INFORMATION COLLECTION'
Information collection is also a very effective method to determine the psychological level of the forum members, and to gather intelligence that can be used against them. In this technique in a light and positive environment a 'show you mine so me yours' posting is initiated. From the number of replies and the answers that are provided much statistical information can be gathered. An example is to post your 'favourite weapon' and then encourage other members of the forum to showcase what they have. In this matter it can be determined by reverse proration what percentage of the forum community owns a firearm, and or a illegal weapon. This same method can be used by posing as one of the form members and posting your favourite 'technique of operation.' From the replies various methods that the group utilizes can be studied and effective methods developed to stop them from their activities.
Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'
Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to 'stage' a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to 'lead' the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you 'do not care what the authorities think!!' inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.
Technique #6 - 'GAINING FULL CONTROL'
It is important to also be harvesting and continually maneuvering for a forum moderator position. Once this position is obtained, the forum can then be effectively and quietly controlled by deleting unfavourable postings - and one can eventually steer the forum into complete failure and lack of interest by the general public. This is the 'ultimate victory' as the forum is no longer participated with by the general public and no longer useful in maintaining their freedoms. Depending on the level of control you can obtain, you can deliberately steer a forum into defeat by censoring postings, deleting memberships, flooding, and or accidentally taking the forum offline. By this method the forum can be quickly killed. However it is not always in the interest to kill a forum as it can be converted into a 'honey pot' gathering center to collect and misdirect newcomers and from this point be completely used for your control for your agenda purposes.
CONCLUSION
Remember these techniques are only effective if the forum participants DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEM. Once they are aware of these techniques the operation can completely fail, and the forum can become uncontrolled. At this point other avenues must be considered such as initiating a false legal precidence to simply have the forum shut down and taken offline. This is not desirable as it then leaves the enforcement agencies unable to track the percentage of those in the population who always resist attempts for control against them. Many other techniques can be utilized and developed by the individual and as you develop further techniques of infiltration and control it is imperative to share then with HQ.
Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo artist to apply. These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the criminal conspiracy or conspiracy to cover up.
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.
Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.
Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.
Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.
Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man -- usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.
Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.
Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic which forbears any actual material fact.
Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.
Vanish evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.
Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed and unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.
Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.
Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.
Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their character by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.
Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen
Traits of the Disinformationalist
(Continued in full at http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm)
Comments
Ignoring them doesn't work. They go away but then they return. So, just keep humoring them.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
This place gets stranger by the day. lol
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Oftentimes the best display of hypocrisy is a mirror.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Often times the holder of the mirror is actually hiding behind it.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
And all this time I thought people posting pictures of their silver on the precious metals forum were so innocent.
Now I see they are all co conspirators in a government ploy to collect information.
Thanks!
My Ebay Store
You need a huge quantity of silver to even mean something value-wise, silver is done.
Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter
Perhaps to help others see themselves?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
TL;DR but I did enjoy the robot look at logical fallacies.
OK, moving right along......
Cheers, RickO
I was looking at this space as too small to draw attention from the empire. and, to date, have yet to see something I would call a coordinated disinformation campaign against PMs.
but a couple of month back I was surprised to see a couple of posters pop in with masking disinformation. it was right out of the playbook including links that don't work and specious references.
don't people realize there are only maybe 20 people on here regularly? and we argue enough to argue with a disinformation campaign.
and just because we disagree doesn't make us paid FUDs. and don't call me a PUD, btw.
The robot part seems pretty sensible. I'm not so sure about the rest of that.
Love that pic! Thank you for the great laugh!
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
HERE IS A PIC OF MY STACK!
Loves me some shiny!
What's the frequency Kenneth?
Comments here are very telling.
It's just disgusting the media and special interest groups are even capable of these things. GameStop redpilled two generations of people in under three months. Our economy will never recover to what it once was.
Here's some info on how similar programs work for Big Money, but in a different arena. These are excerpts from Yale Climate Connections, and the full link is available here:
https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/03/the-making-of-a-one-of-a-kind-climate-change-pr-professional/
Canadian social scientist Alex Himelfarb, who has served in various public service roles under three Canadian prime ministers, told me these campaigns are not about persuasion. “The strategy is to minimize public spaces where dialogue might occur, and where it does occur, confuse it, obscure it,” he said. “The idea is to kill the debate, not foster it.”
“They don’t have to convince the public of anything to limit public will,” Himelfarb said. “They just have to make it seem as if all the proponents for change are pursuing their own special interests and sow doubt that anybody is telling the whole truth.”
“The idea is to silence people by painting them as grossly insincere, undermining public trust in them, so nothing they say can be taken at face value.”
(Ad hominem attacks, pearl-clutching and feigned hypocrisy are very common, and unfortunately, very useful tools.)
Part of the problem lies here:
"We overlook information that suggests we could be wrong. This self-justification protects us from the uncomfortable feelings of cognitive dissonance that come from recognizing we’ve made a mistake. The more time, effort, money, and public face we attach to our decisions, the harder it is to admit we are wrong. We find ways to defend our mistakes rather than facing the alternative, which is to admit doing something stupid, unethical, or incompetent even though we are good, smart, and decent."
Steel your resolve, understand your fears and be righteous about your investing. Confidence and an eyes-front attitude can save you from a Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt campaign.
Too much for me to read.
No wonder aluminum is up 50% in the last year!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Here you go: Some people in the public arena spread lies, fear, and disinformation...and attempt to suppress those who don't agree with them.
copper beats aluminum thin
The bar discussions I have with folks on these topics bring a good bit of unfiltered insight.
then we should drunk post more?
Hogs, Gasoline, Lumber still beats them all. Butter and Beans that's what you better be stacking.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Year to date relative performance:
Bitcoin 196%
Ethereum 278%
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
But copper makes for a heavier hat.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Here is another infographic that could be helpful.
Be wary of negative people. After all, if they were any good at investing, they'd be making money and wouldn't be complaining. Especially in markets like these: like how bad could you possibly be at this? That person has no value, and what they say doesn't matter, so don't pay any attention.
Always be leery of people who try to make you feel certain ways when it comes to your profits and your decisions.
Another good one is "I invested 30 years ago and it didn't work out so anybody doing it now is dumb". Imagine being so bad at investing you do nothing but whine about it on free websites where no one cares, ignoring the changing world around you, while everyone else makes money hand over fist, haunted by the memory of that time you failed miserably.
https://www.cits.ucsb.edu/fake-news/spread
How is Fake News Spread? Bots, People like You, Trolls, and Microtargeting
To be most effective, fake news needs to be spread through social media to reach receptive audiences. In this section, we explore how bots and flesh-and-blood people spread fake news; how cookies are used to track people's visit to websites, create personality profiles, and show them fake news content that they are most receptive to. We also look at trolls, that is, people who set up social media accounts for the sole purpose of spreading fake news and fanning the flames of misinformation.
Trolls and the Propagation of Fake News
Trolls, in this context, are humans who hold accounts on social media platforms, more or less for one purpose: To generate comments that argue with people, insult and name-call other users and public figures, try to undermine the credibility of ideas they don’t like, and to intimidate individuals who post those ideas. And they support and advocate for fake news stories that they’re ideologically aligned with. They’re often pretty nasty in their comments. And that gets other, normal users, to be nasty, too.
I seriously doubt the PM forum suffers from an infection of trolls-for-hire. The few attempts here lead me to suspect it is simply a source of self gratification in their otherwise narcissistic, boring existence. The only single exception that comes to mind is one in particular who appears to bait others in an attempt to have them removed.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
If I was PCGS, I'd run their IPs to see who is breaking the puppet account rule. That would answer a lot of my questions right away.
And yeah, that's crossed my mind, but I guess I had more faith in humanity that these kinds of people don't exist, or I guess, they don't exist in a hobby with so many other regularly awesome and intelligent people. I guess it's easier to think they are trolls ruining it than being such legitimately rotten humans that they are just as bad as shill accounts.
Regardless, three accounts that suck are responsible for a lot of negative content here, and it's no surprise it has killed the forum. I disagree with telling people what to do with their business. But the first thing I'd ask myself is why isn't there a huge influx of users. Why aren't there like 8 new mods on this forum, why isn't it crashing from all the traffic, why isn't the reddit crowd banging on PCGS's door? Why all the bans, and what users post in the threads where users get banned? This is abnormal, even tho I agree with their ban policy.
Coin grading ETAs should realistically be double or way worse right now. The state of this sub forum is causing them to hemorrhage money.
Just so you are aware, there are some of us out here that are not financially sophisticated enough to post into this forum, but some of us do read your comments, thoughts, viewpoints etc. and are learning from them, even if just as an alternative viewpoint that needs to be thought out. Please Continue!
I'm a newbie learning about precious metals (and other subjects on this forum) from those of you who are more experienced. I'm not on the site frequently but when I am I almost never post. So, don't forget that there are a lot of people who may be participating by reading (ie listening rather than talking). I agree with Bruce7789, keep sharing! 😁
Good for you.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey