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PSA upcharge and grading

First time this has happened to me. I sent in 30 1989 Upper Deck Griffey's for the 80s special last year. Just received an email with grades. The good new is I received two 10s. I just assumed that it would increase the insurance charge coming back to me, but on the invoice, they charged a $75 per card grading fee for the 10s. At that time, that was the express grading fee, so I'm confused why they are charging me express grading for cards that it took 9 months to receive. So does this mean you can send any card at the lowest pricing level, and then it gets determined after the grade is assigned?

But wait, it gets better. Now, I've sent at least 200 of this particular card to PSA over the last 20 years. When it comes to this card, I'm very methodical. If its not centered and doesn't have a full holo on the back, I won't send it, because in my experience, those are the biggest obvious knocks. With the exception of one order, I have never gotten anything below a PSA 8. My last order I sent 20 of these. 1 PSA 10, 18 PSA 9s, and a PSA 6 (did have a small dent on the back I missed). But, this order is so bizarre. 2 PSA 10s, 6 PSA 9s, 11 PSA 8.5s, 6 PSA 8s, 3 PSA 7.5s, 1 PSA 7, 1 PSA 5.5. Am I losing my touch? Perhaps, but this is one of the strangest orders I have ever seen.

I have 4 more orders at PSA and 3 more that haven't been logged. Oh, the carnage that awaits....

Comments

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭✭

    Consider yourself lucky. They could have charged Super Express as the card is now worth $3000+. I assume the max declared value was $99 on the special. The grading fee is determined after the card is graded per se. If you paid for a declared value the grade doesn't warrant, you get ZERO back. But if you paid for too low of declared value (in this case $99), then you get upcharged to the level that the value has become after grading, in this case express for a DV of up to $2499. At least they didn't upcharge you for the 9's as those are worth $300+ now.

    The price you pay to grade is not for the amount of time it takes to grade, it is for the declared value you are declaring and getting "insurance coverage" for. The bonus of initially declaring a higher declared value form the start is they will grade it faster. But at the end of the day you pay for the value that the grade gets you.

  • soxaddictsoxaddict Posts: 256 ✭✭✭

    @RufussCkingston said:
    Consider yourself lucky. They could have charged Super Express as the card is now worth $3000+. I assume the max declared value was $99 on the special. The grading fee is determined after the card is graded per se. If you paid for a declared value the grade doesn't warrant, you get ZERO back. But if you paid for too low of declared value (in this case $99), then you get upcharged to the level that the value has become after grading, in this case express for a DV of up to $2499. At least they didn't upcharge you for the 9's as those are worth $300+ now.

    The price you pay to grade is not for the amount of time it takes to grade, it is for the declared value you are declaring and getting "insurance coverage" for. The bonus of initially declaring a higher declared value form the start is they will grade it faster. But at the end of the day you pay for the value that the grade gets you.

    Thanks for the response. I really had no idea how they determined that. Makes sense the way you laid it out, but I've never had it happen to me before.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    there is a general consensus out there that they are grading extremely hard right now. whether it's an effort to thwart new subs coming in w. the backlog is another question. ive had a few questionable ones come back myself. of course, i also had one w/ a $200 & $500 upcharge. im not one for conspiracy theories, but ill listen to them. in the end, like always, it seems to even out in the end for me.

    for my own personal experience, i have quit subbing more than 100 cards per order AND/OR more than 10 of the exact same cards in a row. this limits the G.O.D. or the monotony factor from setting in. it's seemed to have worked better for me atleast.

    i know the others sting, but congrats on those two 10s. pretty nice pay day there, especially at 9 months agos prices.

  • soxaddictsoxaddict Posts: 256 ✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:
    there is a general consensus out there that they are grading extremely hard right now. whether it's an effort to thwart new subs coming in w. the backlog is another question. ive had a few questionable ones come back myself. of course, i also had one w/ a $200 & $500 upcharge. im not one for conspiracy theories, but ill listen to them. in the end, like always, it seems to even out in the end for me.

    for my own personal experience, i have quit subbing more than 100 cards per order AND/OR more than 10 of the exact same cards in a row. this limits the G.O.D. or the monotony factor from setting in. it's seemed to have worked better for me atleast.

    i know the others sting, but congrats on those two 10s. pretty nice pay day there, especially at 9 months agos prices.

    Thanks! Yup, stoked for the 10s! I usually average about 1 of 15, so that was what I had hoped for. I was expecting about 20 9s, haha! I normally send 10, 50 or 100 of the same card. Maybe I'll mix it up next time.

  • gobraves39401gobraves39401 Posts: 91 ✭✭✭

    Just wondering, will they let you know when they are about to charge your card? An email before or something to allow us time to transfer money from another account if such an upcharge occurs?

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gobraves39401 said:
    Just wondering, will they let you know when they are about to charge your card? An email before or something to allow us time to transfer money from another account if such an upcharge occurs?

    they can't charge you w/o authorization. but yes, they send you an email explaining the new charge and you must reply or call in and confirm that you are ok w the charges. you will also see a "problem order" status in you online account should you check that first.

  • KyserKyser Posts: 213 ✭✭✭

    At what stage do you typically see up charges?

  • gobraves39401gobraves39401 Posts: 91 ✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:

    @gobraves39401 said:
    Just wondering, will they let you know when they are about to charge your card? An email before or something to allow us time to transfer money from another account if such an upcharge occurs?

    they can't charge you w/o authorization. but yes, they send you an email explaining the new charge and you must reply or call in and confirm that you are ok w the charges. you will also see a "problem order" status in you online account should you check that first.

    Thanks!

  • 1951WheatiesPremium1951WheatiesPremium Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kyser said:
    At what stage do you typically see up charges?

    QA2 becomes Problem Order

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    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My first thought reading this is how many PSA 8 Griffey’s there will be in the market in the next 12 months. There must be thousands being graded right now. I try and stay out of the hobby bubble discussions these days but my god pops on some cards are going to be insane.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @80sOPC said:
    My first thought reading this is how many PSA 8 Griffey’s there will be in the market in the next 12 months. There must be thousands being graded right now. I try and stay out of the hobby bubble discussions these days but my god pops on some cards are going to be insane.

    not saying you're right or wrong, just something to keep in mind...

    have there been thousands of new entrants into the market?
    are we hitting the nostalgia days where the '89 griffey is a must have?
    are avg folks priced out of 9s/10s?
    are we in the midst of the "base card revolution" where guys have multiples galore?
    are signed rookies becoming more popular, esp this one w a few recent & staggering sales?
    is it the most recognizable card of its generation similar to the wagner, mantle, jordan in terms of non-collector recognizability?
    is it the 1st card of an inaugural set that was a hobby game changer?

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All good points and I try to avoid predicting where the hobby will go next. But, all these new entrants are here today and the lack of supply is/ was driving the price up. Actually prices on the Griff are a fair ways off peak. A whole wave of supply is about to hit, it may require a next wave of entrants to keep prices at current values. Or, it gets gobbled up.

    I mean if PSA and BVG are buried under mountains of subs, the clearing of that backlog is going to create mountains of supply. Hard to believe there won't be some downward pressure on pricing, and I have this feeling 6/7/8 grade pops on popular cards are going to go nuts.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @80sOPC said:
    All good points and I try to avoid predicting where the hobby will go next. But, all these new entrants are here today and the lack of supply is/ was driving the price up. Actually prices on the Griff are a fair ways off peak. A whole wave of supply is about to hit, it may require a next wave of entrants to keep prices at current values. Or, it gets gobbled up.

    I mean if PSA and BVG are buried under mountains of subs, the clearing of that backlog is going to create mountains of supply. Hard to believe there won't be some downward pressure on pricing, and I have this feeling 6/7/8 grade pops on popular cards are going to go nuts.

    agreed. but this is where short term flippers get burnt.

  • sayheywyosayheywyo Posts: 435 ✭✭✭

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say: One would have to think that the '89 Upper Deck Griffey has got to be the all-time most submitted card in PSA history. It's a desirable card due it's iconic image and nostalgic factors. A game changer for sure. The "kids" of junk wax are now early 40's, established, more disposable income and looking for other forms of entertainment or investment. I think there will still be enough demand for 9's even after the supply increases.

    Eleven (11) 8.5's out of 30. Dang. Thought someone mentioned in another thread that 1/2 grades were rare.

    I think upcharges are going to be more of the norm until the tsunami subsides. The PSA brand created the value and they want a little piece of the pie.

  • KyserKyser Posts: 213 ✭✭✭

    “Eleven (11) 8.5's out of 30. Dang. Thought someone mentioned in another thread that 1/2 grades were rare.”
    I was under the same false assumption.

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭✭

    @gobraves39401 said:
    Just wondering, will they let you know when they are about to charge your card? An email before or something to allow us time to transfer money from another account if such an upcharge occurs?

    In life, using a credit card tied directly to the balance of a bank account is a bad idea. Should only us "real" credit cards.... plus you can earn points.

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2021 12:42PM

    They don’t charge you until you agree to the charges.

    I got my first up charge last night.

    They charged me $75 per to grade 1982 Wrestling All Stars Hulk Hogan’s that graded PSA 5’s in a CC renewal sub. You have to use the voucher again on them.

    It appears they are using their auction prices realized vs. the SMR as a guide.

    I am fine with it as the cards are clearly selling for north of a $1,000 and when I spoke to Gregg it goes by when they grade them not receive them. In July when I mailed them it was an appropriate service level.

  • KyserKyser Posts: 213 ✭✭✭

    “ I spoke to Gregg it goes by when they grade them not receive them.”

    I will never use PSA again. I got two regulars in Q I’m done after that. Good game guys and gals good luck. I have been watching businesses and politicians during this chaos. I have learned a bit about both.

  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2021 2:21PM

    @Kyser said:
    “ I spoke to Gregg it goes by when they grade them not receive them.”

    I will never use PSA again. I got two regulars in Q I’m done after that. Good game guys and gals good luck. I have been watching businesses and politicians during this chaos. I have learned a bit about both.

    I have always felt it was inevitable that PSA would want more of a piece of the action because their brand literally overnight creates money. My last bulk sub at $9 a card I spent just over $1,200 and created over $20,000 of value. No upcharges on that order. This kind of potential spread between cost and value creation was destined to narrow. If they see cards selling for over $2,000 currently I can't fault them for not grading it at an under $500 level.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kyser said:
    “ I spoke to Gregg it goes by when they grade them not receive them.”

    I will never use PSA again. I got two regulars in Q I’m done after that. Good game guys and gals good luck. I have been watching businesses and politicians during this chaos. I have learned a bit about both.

    upcharges are the final straw?

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,429 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dpeck100 said:

    @Kyser said:
    “ I spoke to Gregg it goes by when they grade them not receive them.”

    I will never use PSA again. I got two regulars in Q I’m done after that. Good game guys and gals good luck. I have been watching businesses and politicians during this chaos. I have learned a bit about both.

    I have always felt it was inevitable that PSA would want more of a piece of the action because their brand literally overnight creates money. My last bulk sub at $9 a card I spent just over $1,200 and created over $20,000 of value. No upcharges on that order. This kind of potential spread between cost and value creation was destined to narrow. If they see cards selling for over $2,000 currently I can't fault them for not grading it at an under $500 level.

    Dpeck, I envy that sub is so many ways. I missed pulling the trigger on a similar sub before the price increase. It could be awhile before I send it in for so many reasons.

    My new focus is picking up cheaper graded cards or sets that have value in being already subbed.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:

    @Kyser said:
    “ I spoke to Gregg it goes by when they grade them not receive them.”

    I will never use PSA again. I got two regulars in Q I’m done after that. Good game guys and gals good luck. I have been watching businesses and politicians during this chaos. I have learned a bit about both.

    upcharges are the final straw?

    I don't get that either. It's like saying I don't want that $100,000 prize because I have to pay $35,000 in taxes on it.

  • KyserKyser Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2021 4:39PM

    Here is my post from the 23rd on another thread. Up until a few minutes ago when PSA cut off most submissions all I seen so far was uncontrolled greed. I have never been up charged. If I were up charged based on fair market price when my order was received I would obviously understand and accept. This is the only time I have complained or voiced a negative opinion of PSA. I am sure I am just too simple minded to see the big picture.

    Kyser
    Kyser Posts: 136 ✭✭✭
    March 23, 2021 11:48AM

    Raise prices, offer more services, and lower expectations. This is the response I have seen from PSA on the service side of their business. I would be curious to see if there have been similar changes to the hiring process. As for what would I have liked PSA to do differently. Do away with all service levels below regular until you were caught up. And then add back only what you could process. And stop adding new services. I am talking to you Funko pop. What I wouldn't do is keep advertising on my home page value submissions and discount services. When I just raised my prices and can't keep up with the orders paying $100 a card regular. But I do not answer to the share holders or board members.

  • soxaddictsoxaddict Posts: 256 ✭✭✭

    @Kyser said:
    “Eleven (11) 8.5's out of 30. Dang. Thought someone mentioned in another thread that 1/2 grades were rare.”
    I was under the same false assumption.

    I've been submitting cards to PSA for 20 years, granted they didn't always do the 1/2 grades, but this is the 1st time I've ever received a 1/2 grade on any order.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    a lot of half grades distributed on vintage signed card side. like a lot.

  • Would you happen to know how long this order was in QA2?

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