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EBay seller cancelled order when I told them I was going to have the coin authenticated.
Baysideuph
Posts: 46 ✭✭
Any opinions other than counterfeit if the seller cancelled my order after letting them know I would submit a coin? It looked good but pictures were not the best. I would post them but coin has been removed from eBay. They did refund my money but says I spooked them and said I might switch the coin.
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Since the coin was taken down, it was likely fake, imo.
It could have been fake or it could just be precautionary. If the seller thinks that you are going to return the coin 3 months later if there's a problem, then why take the chance?
It doesn't have to be counterfeit. It might not reach the grade it was listed at. It might end up in a details holder.
And, if you've followed any of the threads around here where people were blocking "high maintenance" buyers, it could be nothing.
I canceled a sale and blocked a buyer this week because they bought a PCGS slabbed Japanese gold coin and then started asking questions about purity etc. They were in Brazil, which was bad enough, and a shipping nightmare. But when I clicked on their feedback, about 40% of the feedback they had left was negative and most of it was for late delivery. Well, I'm not spending $100 to ship overnight to Brazil on a $125 coin, so why take the chance?
Submission for grading is a multiple month process. If the seller thinks there's any chance you will file a chargeback 90 days or 180 days after the fact, they may not want to risk it. I don't know what your email said, but if you sounded at all "high maintenance", the response might be strictly based on the assessment of you as a customer and have nothing to do with the coin at all.
If the coin was sold, isn't the original listing there? If eBay removed the original listing even after it sold, there must have been a problem with the listing as @Halfpence said.
The seller had no other coins for sale or in their feedback. When I asked where they got it they said their grannies attic. So that sent my radar off. I really though it looked ok but have been disappointed with picture doctoring in the past. I'm not high maintenance and never returned a coin. I feel better when it is a seller with multiple coins for sale but not the only one.
Probably saved you alot of heart ache.
Fine line between sellers who don't know squat from those that don't give a S&%$!
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
then why did you bid? as others have said, even if they cancelled the sale it should still show up in their sold listings, unless eBay closed the auction for fraud issues
The seller does not know that you consider yourself low maintenance.
If I get an email from a customer who sounds uncomfortable with the coin and/or seems to be implying something, it sets my radar off.
Frankly, the fact that the seller had no other coins for sale supports the grannies' attic story rather than refutes it.
Bottom line: if either party much less, as in this case, both parties are uncomfortable with a transaction, it is best canceled.
People love a sale. LOL.
If I get an email from a customer who sounds uncomfortable with the coin, I recommend that they'd be better off looking for another one and not buying mine.
This may read harshly, but I would feel uncomfortable as a seller if I listed a raw coin on ebay and then, after the auction is over, had the winner tell me they were going to certify the coin. I might just cancel the sale, as well. Please note that I have never knowingly sold a counterfeit, I don't sell coins where I believe there is a problem with the surfaces and I am a very conservative grader. However, a statement like yours, after the fact, might read to me like a "shot across the bow" that you are or will be a problem buyer and I simply don't need that in my life.
Might you please post exactly the message that you wrote to the seller, how much it ended at and also what the coin was and how it was described? This could help others formulate a better idea as to what may have happened.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If the listing fully disappeared, it is possible other people reported it as counterfeit and eBay took it down (still does not mean it was fake-just a possibility of what might have happened).
As far as the canceled sale, I agree with the others. The seller didn't like the question and decided it was easier to cancel and not deal with any potential future issues.
Seller's are people, just like buyers. Sometimes one party sends up "red flags" and a preemptive action is taken to avoid a potential headache. He/she may have had poor experiences with buyers raising authenticity concerns and just figured it wasn't worth it.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Listed at $599 had bought three similar gold sovereigns for 461,475 and 439 so it seemed high but was similar. An earlier date and thought that was worth more so they had make offer listed. I offered $520 and it was accepted immediately. I paid . A few hours later I sent a note asking where they got it since i realized they had no other coins and all feed back was for non numismatic items and they said their grannies attic. Next response was since they don't seem to seal coins I would have it certified. Hour later cancelled order. I asked why they said I spooked them and said I would switch the coin and return it , they would have it certified and never responded again. To me it's like being at a show buying a coin telling the dealer I'm sending it off and then grabs the coin and throws your money back at you. I did buy it and eBay says it's a binding contract but who knows just wanted some feedback.
I don't know why you would send that if you want to come across as low maintenance.
Given how long TPG turn around can be, posting that indicates the deal may come back to be a problem months down the road, and high maintenance.
Once a sale is over, it should be over unless there are issues. If you want to have it certified, get it certified and then notify the seller when you have the result.
Like I said... be grateful you got away from the deal.
These are the types you look to rip a variety. Not overpay for commons.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Authenticated is one thing...but if you were saying that in terms of it must meet XX required grade, I would choose not to sell to you as well. Grading companies can be very inconsistent and as a seller I don't need to be making refunds 3 months later just because a coin I thought was a 63 came back a 58 or unc details. But, authenticated, is just fine as every seller should stand by the authenticity of the item (just don't let it be in a package deal because then pricing can get tricky if you didn't agree on prices piecemeal).
As some others have said, it’s understandable/believable that the seller was spooked. And that’s even if he thought the coin was genuine.
Your coin show analogy sounds off. You didn’t yet have possession of the coin at the time the seller cancelled the transaction and doing so was a lot less violent than throwing your money back at you.😉
Despite the fact that EBay transactions are supposedly binding contracts, on a practical basis, that’s not usually the case.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Shouldn't have said a thing. I agree with @Zoins about getting it slabbed later. Just in case.
One Sovereign coin in a Grandmothers attic does sound weird.
Pete
The coin show analogy is completely incorrect.
This seller is someone who doesn't typically sell coins and might not know much at all about coins. Whereas, at a coin show you have a dealer (part-time or full-time) who has gone out of their way to rent a table, bring inventory and set up a coin selling business. Aside from the coin, the two scenarios have little in common.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Guess I'll have to careful what I say based on the responses . I wonder how you feel when you realize you get scammed. Me I say I should have been more careful or asked a few more questions. I know this will ofend many people here but just because a person rents a table or has a shop doesn't make them honorable, you have to gain my trust. I must be the only one here who has never been burned by eBay or a dealer. I guess getting mistreated by dealers must have made me not very trusting. Sorry I offended some and maybe I didn't use the best illustration.
$520 for a common sovereign in any grade is way high.
Why are you whining so much?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Lots of participants here have been burned. And not that some of us aren’t empathetic, but you weren’t “scammed”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
On eBay, all power belongs to the buyer. Upon seeing a message like that from an unfamiliar buyer, the logical reaction of a seller is that this is not going to end well.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
why don't you buy one already authenticated?
It all worked out for the better! IMO.
eBay is not being entirely honest if that's what they're telling you.
How were you scammed?
Your desire to avoid being cheated is natural. But you also have to understand the seller's side of this. There are high maintenance buyers that have a high probability of creating a problem. [See my previous post about the Brazil buyer who appears to leave negative feedback if there are shipping delays.]
From a seller perspective, this is a HUGE problem with bullion sales. A buyer could easily buy a coin, hold it for 3 months, discover gold hasn't gone up, and return the item.
Now, I'm a semi-professional. If you wanted to submit one of my coins, I wouldn't care. I trust my judgment. If it came back bad, I would want to accept the return.
Now, consider that grannies attic is a true story. My grandmother had a single gold coin in her bedroom. It's plausible. But I KNOW NOTHING about coins. Now I can't be quite so confident about what I'm selling. And I may prefer to seek out more information before I try to sell it. Or maybe I prefer to just sell it to a dealer. Or maybe...a dozen different things.
The point is not that you don't have a right to ask questions and be careful. The point is that there are good reasons as well as bad reasons why the seller was spooked. Since you want to be careful not to get scammed, don't you think the seller should have that same right? After all, how does he know you aren't scamming him?
Why would you volunteer that you were going to submit it?
The OP and the seller are both better off now. My hunch is that was not going to end well
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
There are multiple levels of buyer protection in place had the coin been inauthentic. You probably should have said nothing and then vetted the coin after receiving it. If you felt compelled to message the seller, you might have simply asked if s/he would guarantee authenticity. If that question results in a cancelation, you've probably saved yourself some time and hassle.
Sorry, but id I was the seller I would have considered the same route. You statement was interrupted as veiled treat.
The order of operations was what would bug me most. You waited til after you had an accepted offer to express your concerns and start asking questions. I don't sell often but if I was the seller my first reaction to a message coming in after a coin was bought would be "oh great here we go...".
Just because it's ebay, I'm suspicious that the coin was either fake or had hidden problems that were concealed in the photos.
From the seller's perspective, "problem buyers" really are an issue. There's nothing worse than a skittish, fussy buyer who wants to return just about everything due to lack of confidence in their own grading skills. I'll never forget the guy who returned an NGC-certified Morgan to me (sold on ebay) because he found a tiny carbon spot on the side of the digit "3" in the date. I relisted it as a true auction with a mention of the carbon fleck, and it went $20 higher. Take that, fussy buyer.
Bad pictures, Granny's attic, statement about submitting after the sale is closed.... Red flags on both sides... Case is over, probably best for both sides. Cheers, RickO