Whose U.S. Coin Collection do you consider "the Best"?
Zoins
Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
Which U.S. Coin Collection to you consider the pinnacle of collecting?
A lot of great collectors have been mentioned on these forums:
- Harry Wesley Bass Jr.
- Virgil Michael Brand
- Louis Edward Eliasberg, Sr.
- Thomas Harrison and John Work Garrett
- Colonel Edward Howland Robinson "Ned" Green
- Josiah Kirby "Joe" Lilly Jr.
- Eric Pfeiffer Newman
- Raymond Henry and Emery May Holden Norweb
- Lorin Gilbert Parmelee
- John Jay Pittman
- David Brent Pogue
- James A. Stack
- Matthew Adams Stickney
- Marvin Taichert
I'm leaving off living collectors to keep them out of the spotlight, but feel free to add them.
1
Comments
Of your list, I'd say Eliasberg but I'm not familiar with the entirety of all the others. The quality differences important in US collecting today aren't that important to me and this seems to be the #1 reason why his wouldn't be ranked first.
From what I know, Brand and Parmalee were more comprehensive after Eliasberg than the others but this might not be correct.
Also, are you including other than US Mint coinage? If so, my opinion might change. I've never heard that Eliasberg had close to a comprehensive collection in colonial or territorials while some of the others might have.
My thought is to focus on U.S. Mint coins, not including colonials and territorials. I like those areas a lot but I think it would make the comparison less interesting. Of course, if any had collections in these areas, or others like tokens, medals, or even world, coins, it would be great to talk about, but not strictly necessary for the comparison. For example, Eliasberg also collected gold medals.
One reason for this is as I do provenance tracking for many stand out coins, Virgil Brand's name comes up a lot for the coins I'm tracking and interested in. When I first started this, I primarily knew of him as his reputation as a hoarder, but it also turns out that he had many exceptional coins. He also had an extensive token collection.
Mine 😉
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
What name should I add to the list
Timely thread. A project of mine has been my intention to study these collectors, read any related books, auction catalogs, contemporary interviews and articles. It is the historian in me...
I would need to know more about the other participants, the strengths and weakness of their respective collections to make an informed decision.
I can make a strong case for Wilt Chamberlain being the greatest athlete of all time (weight lifting, track, volleyball, hoops), but he might only be the 5th pick in an all time mock NBA draft.
With my limited knowledge, the obvious choice is Eliasberg.
He spent $400K on his collection. Complete and bang per buck!
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
.
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us
Eliasberg, fwiw
@edwardjulio @johnny9434
What about their collections stands out to you?
Based on personal preference, I would choose the collection of Marvin Taichert over any of those listed.
What stands out about his collection to you and what are your personal preferences?
I added him to the list.
Eliasberg has to be #1. He had substantial parts of everything.
The interesting thing about Eliasberg is that when I run across cool coins, more often than not, they were owned by Brand and not Eliasberg, so while both had a lot of coins, I still feel the need to run across more Eliasberg stand out coins.
Here are some Brand coins that Eliasberg didn't have:
That Brand and Eliasberg both owned the following coin is nice:
And of course, the following is an Eliasberg stand out:
With a relatively small number of (very beautiful, high character, but not necessarily top pop) coins, Taicher’s collection illustrated the history and remarkable range of US coins. The Stack’s catalogue for this sale was a work of art as well.
PS: here is a True View of the 1796 quarter from the Taichert collection (not mine, unfortunately):
It is illustrative of the coins he acquired.
I don't know alot about famous collectors, but I would have to say elisberg is most defiantly the top one, since he is the only one that actually completed a collection fully. Brand is cool since he had like 300k COINS!
You know, I'm a pretty big fan of provenance. It's a great way to tie history to your collection. But I don't think it's a competition.
Now that I got that off my chest, here's my opinion -
I think completeness is not nearly as important as quality. Therefore, from the OP's list, I would choose Garrett.
I think J.M. Clapp and his son should get a lot more credit for Eliasberg's collection than they do.
I think John Ford built a lot of the Norweb's collection for them.
When I think of Bass, I think of gold coins and, frankly, I don't know what else he had.
When I think of Virgil Brand, I think of a hoarder with a lot of money.
I think Pittman had a great collection, but he is just as widely recognized for his foreign coins as his US coins.
I think Eric Newman was a fantastic numismatist and scholar. I'm not overly impressed with the quality of his collection.
I'll stop there...
I'm less impressed with "one of everything" collections and prefer the constraint and mindfulness required to build typesets so I'd pick Oliver's which would be very hard to top in quality.
Mine.
Best can be arbitrary, but as a gold collector, I am a big fan of Harry Bass' collection and his detail early gold research. I like Ed Trompeter's efforts also, especially his Ultra High Relief and & the unique Amazonian gold set.
fwiw, here is an EXTENSIVE list for auction archives from the NNP. major inspiration can be gleaned from this list. i perused it for a bit.
It's my inference that most US collectors still consider colonials and territorials "US" coins because both are in the Red Book. Same for the 1861 CSA half dollar though it's a specific coin and Hawaii. Totally different than comparing to tokens, medals and world coinage, though there are some colonials in the Red Book which weren't struck geographically in what is now the US.
Whoever has done it, it's more of an accomplishment to have a (mostly) complete set of both and one of the best most comprehensive collections of US federal coinage than just the latter. Only a very low proportion of US federal coinage is actually hard to buy.
OT But a case could be made that Jim Brown is both the best football player of all time as well as the best lacrosse player of all time. Since you Chamberlain wouldn't be number one in any sport if you have him 5th in basketball, Brown would seem a more likely "greatest athlete".
And yet Pittman had U.S. coins that Eliasberg lacked...
yolo
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/date-sets/hashtags-prefect-coin-grading-service-1879/album/7621
Personally, I think Eliasberg is over-rated. He completed Green's "checklist" but that leaves a lot of things out. Look at some of the Newman colonial material, for example.
I'm not saying Eliasberg didn't have a great collection. He should definitely be on that list. But, for example, the Pogue catalogs had my jaw dropping in a way that the Eliasberg catalogs didn't.
And Virgil Brand might simply have been a little too long ago for people to really appreciate how jaw dropping a modern full color catalog of his collection would have been.
So, you'd really have to decide on what "Best" refers to. If absolute rarity matters, it might not be Eliasberg. If top pop matters, it probably isn't Eliasberg.
And, frankly, if you want to consider contribution to numismatics, it could very well be Newman who contributed in so many ways for roughly 8 decades. [And who, by the way, briefly co-owned all five 1913 Liberty nickels which he got from Colonel Green who owned all five.]
Wilt was a track star when he was young in addition to being a great basketball player.
Certainly not a competition which is why all the people on the list have passed on.
People do indicate which provenances they value above others so this is a thread for that.
Of course, comparing living collectors could be interesting too, but we've already seen some of this on these forums.
Good choice. Thanks. I still need to run across more Harrison Garrett coins. I do like that he also had a focus on medals and So-Called Dollars. I have one of his So-Called Dollars.
The other thing about the Garrets is that Harrison's son John Work Garret added some significant coins to the collection as well.
How many of Eliasberg's coins can be traced to Clapp? For example, do we know if Brand's 1822 HE owned by Clapp?
Many collectors have dealers they work with. The difference may be if the dealer was doing the buy decisions for them. Was that happening here?
He also had patterns. The people that value his collection seem to be ones with a similar focus.
I think that's the reputation he's gotten over time, but it's a bit unfortunate. Doug Winter indicates Virgil had detailed notebooks and was an astute collector of coins. I wonder how many of us keep notebooks of our coins.
True, but having non-US coins shouldn't preclude him from being in a U.S. coins list.
I've seen some of this too.
Great info. Did he ever have an opportunity to pick one up?
It would be interesting to know if there was an opportunity that he passed on.
I'm nowhere near the pinnacle though we do have some forum members who are.
And sadly there are no Eliasberg gold medal in the Zoins collection so that give away cannot happen, at least not yet.
I just like to research coins
Eliasberg. Completeness, especially considering the unique coins (1873-CC NA dime, 1822 half eagle, 1870-S $3 gold). I don't think anyone today could put together even two of these three rarities.
And, as far as greatest athlete, Jim Thorpe gets my vote. He excelled in more sports than anyone else I can think of.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I'm guessing it could possibly be done with enough funds and time.
This type of collecting is what makes Stuart Weitzman's collection so excting.
Here's some info on these coins:
1873-CC No Arrows Dime - PCGS MS65 POP 0/1/0 - Ex. Randall, Newcomer, Eliasberg
Here's the 1873-CC NA dime.
Top three for Walkers were IMHO:
Back in the day, Bob Moreno had a pretty amazing set ATS at NGC.
Members Breakdown and JBN also have owned some world-class sets.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Always admired Pittman's coins and passion; Ed Trompeter for proof gold; And current collectors---the type set from Oliver Jung; Hansen and the Tyrant's US coins are breathtaking
1884 Toronto Semi-Centennial - Matte Gilt - PCGS SP67 POP 0/1/0 - Ex. John Jay Pittman; Jack Tu
In a nod to Pittman's non-US pieces, here's a presumed unique Pittman medal I have.
Yes. The Great Eliasberg.
Pete
Has PCGS done a comparison via the registry set?
Or possibly, has the ANA weighed in?
What is the extent of their archives?
Contemporary opinion, diaries, interviews, etc... could shed some light on the topic.
Wilt beat Brown in two impromptu foot races... FWIW
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
The IRS......
I try not to get too caught up in labels and rankings of collections. The collections that I think of first when people ask for a historically significant provenance are:
Bass
Eliasberg
Garrett
Green
Norweb
Pittman
Pogue