1822 $5 at $8.4M!
Boosibri
Posts: 12,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
Boosibri
Posts: 12,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
Boosibri
Posts: 12,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Damn. I thought the auction was tomorrow. Someone got a bargain!!!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I’m a little bummed that it didn’t break the record, but third place is definitely not bad. I too hope that Hansen got it, since that would be a major milestone for his collection.
It sold for a bit more than I expected. It's my #1 US Mint issue coin though.
Was TDN not going for it? Anyways congrats to the new owner!!!
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
Regardless of how rare/famous those two coins are, based on what he’s already purchased (and likely will in the future), I think it would be an injustice to require that they be added to his collection in order to “equal or best Eliasberg. I think it would be more equatable to look at the entirety of each collection.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The reality is Hansen is already doing more because he's collecting business strikes and proofs and he has many more moderns to contend with.
However, another reality is the top coins are what people talk about, like:
I think that’s a fair price. Not too high, not too low.
oh man. if only i could use language that the expression was originally told.
but
there are lots of ways to measure a "great" collection. perhaps if yoda were here he could enlighten us about greatness.
my recommendation is to not seek greatness.
my recommendation is to not seek greatness.
Some can’t help but to....
I think that's a fair price as well for given the survivors and condition.
If I were in his position, I would be thinking about the upcoming 1933 DE.
Sometimes, my bid button finger can't help but to keep clicking....
I personally tip my hat to Mr. Hansen. He obviously set a max bid on the coin, the coin exceeded it and he let it go. To me, that is a bigger sign of greatness for the future of his collection and tells me that he learned a great deal over the past few years since stepping into the coin biz. And, IMHO, this half eagle coin is entirely irrelevant to whether Mr. Hansen’s overall collection is viewed as “great” or not in the future.
Wondercoin
Agree from the perspective that the 1822 is a big coin, but it's not as big as others. You need to have this and the others.
When thought about this way, what Eliasberg did was really incredible, though the 1933 DE was easier to acquire in his day.
I don't think the Langbord coins are still open to litigation. If anyone wants to bet more than the Weitzman coin will be legally ownable in our lifetimes, I'll take that bet. Of course, that's not a good bet because I won't be alive to collect
The only way another will be ownable is if some government authorization appears such as another export license or something like the NASA moon dust bag sale.
No guts, no glory.
DLH already has one of the greatest collections ever formed and obviously it’s only going to get better. But only one guy went out and paid the ransom necessary for completeness. Apparently, that won’t be eclipsed in my lifetime.
“But only one guy went out and paid the ransom necessary for completeness.”
Well said.
Wondercoin
Completeness is interesting since Eliasberg didn't do business strike and proofs but Hansen is.
To some extent, the collections are both great but different.
I wouldn't make such a strong judgment on @DLHansen. He hasn't been collecting that long and may be able to pick up some coins he's missed later. When building a collection of this size, some budgeting strategy may be necessary.
Did you win it?
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
Did not bid...tho before the lot opened I offered to split it with the mega collector sitting next to me if it didn’t advance off the book bid.
Good Point. Eliasberg passed on the 1870-S $3 the first time it was offered to him. He purchased it later, but at a substantial higher price. I will be interesting to watch and see what’s happens from here. There are some other interesting coins and sets coming to market. The environment has changed in a couple ways that is making it harder for Hansen to pickup some of theses ultra-rarities. There is not that many of them. So, he may need need to adjust and possible change his goals. Interesting.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
How can you be committed to the Eliasberg quest and pass on the 1822.
"The difference between involvement and commitment is like ham and eggs. The chicken is involved; the pig is committed." - Martina Navratilova
Latin American Collection
On the other hand, how much fun would it be to collect coins if you felt obligated to pay any imaginable price for the coins you need? I think that for most of us making the tough decisions is part of the fun.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Congrats to the buyer. $8.4 MM "feels right" for that coin, not that I have any business getting near that velvet rope. How does this compare with the estimates made in threads both before this sale the original Pogue sale in which it was passed?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Based on the fact that DLH has upgraded quite a substantial number of his coins, it seems he's prioritized moving up in various Registry categories over acquiring certain mega-rarities at any cost. At least for now.
Agree, if it’s no challenge, people would likely move on to other hobbies.
Dell Loy has only been on his Eliasberg quest for what about four years? Eliasberg had been at it for how long 25+ years? The Hansen collection built set by set, piece by piece, has been an incredible initial run. Eliasberg of course bought 90%+ in one fell swoop. I don't think any of us might imagine where the Hansen collection is going to end up before all is said and done.
Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.
Thats the whole problem with certain collecting objectives. If you decide to build a PCGS type set, you need a 1793 liberty cap cent or you miss your goal. So if you tell the whole world you will be the next Eliasberg, you need the 1822 5, or you missed your goal of being the next Eliasberg. So you can be something else, but not the next Eliasberg.
I believe the 1822 5 was used by someone to put money away, to be protected from inflation and made from stocks.
If the value of your stock portfolio just increased from 200 million to 1 Billion in the last year, its easy to make such a purchase.
I personally dont think this way. I dont want to spend 10 million on anything I think it should be worth 5 - 6 million, and will be worth again this in future probably.
I was planing to bid on the 1822 5 too, I just dont see how its a 8.4 Million USD coin, meaning every other deal I saw I prefer over this one, including the 1804 ten, the Gem Brasher Doubloon and the PCGS 67 20 USD Paquet.
I rather would have the Gem Brasher Doubloon at 10 Million than this one at 8.4, actually the Brasher looks cheap now, like all other big coins that sold recently.
By “the most expensive US gold coin ever sold”, did you mean the 1822 $5 or the Brasher at $9.36 million?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
For those who missed it.
Perhaps DLH's strategy is similar to about 1/2 a dozen coins I just bought but was outbid on a recent auction. I purchased them all for around 1/2 a bid increment more than they sold for(this auction didn't allow cut bids either and the bid increments were huge). The most expensive was around $600 less than it would have cost me if I had bid again. Of course that has 4 scenarios! The winner might not sell it or not be located, It could of sold for another bump above me, I win it, or buy it later like I did!
The next bid increment on the 1822 was more than most of our collections are worth!
A very impressive price for a very important coin. I'm in the camp that believes Hansen should've done what it takes to put this one in his collection. Of course, it's not my money, so it's easy to say that from where I sit.
Given his quest and his money, this just seems like a missed opportunity. A very big missed opportunity, and one that may not repeat itself in his lifetime. And that alone seems worthy of overpaying.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I look at it this way - which would I rather have - $20M worth of duplicates or two or three really rare coins such as this. To me, the answer if obvious with the stated goal. Without the stated goal, then it’s a little more murky.
So maybe the goal was stated to throw us all into a tizzy every now and then.
I wonder if the public collecting is to entertain us or if we are the entertainment
If so, it has certainly worked!
Great for publicity...keeps people talking about his collection.
Whatever his actual goal is, it's a nice collection most of us can only dream about, even without the 1822 $5.
My first thought is that I'd rather have the two or three really rare coins, but...the $20M in duplicates would probably be easier to sell with more of a chance to make a profit.
I don't think the strategy you described works on a coin which only had three (or four) owners in the last 115 years. (You essentially admitted this in your post.) To buy this coin any time soon, any prospective buyer will mostly likely have to pay more than one bid increment more. I do not see that the new owner would have an incentive to sell it otherwise.
What you described isn't likely to be optimal even for many of the coins I collect which are worth a low fraction of 1% of this one.
By US do you mean officially issued United States or loosely affiliated United States?
Which approach would you enjoy more?
If your question was for me, I was quoting GoBust and I’m not sure what he meant by it. Hence, my question to him.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Since we're talking about duplicates, I would enjoy the two or three really rare coins more.
However, if my goal is to buy coins as placeholders while I steadily upgrade my collection, then sell the duplicates to raise money for future purchases, I could see getting a lot of enjoyment from buying and selling and searching for better coins for my collection.
Is it the journey (selling duplicates and upgrading) or the destination (owning 2 or 3 really rare coins)?
Maybe the answer is both.
The Brasher "Doubloon" is no more a coin than the Continental "Dollar." Both are privately made tokens, or medals.
I was planing to bid on the 1822 5 too, I just dont see how its a 8.4 Million USD coin
At the Eliasberg sale in 1982, his UHR sold for $240k and it’s now worth ten times that amount. Ten times what the 1822 fetched is a little under $7M but what isn’t known is that Harry Bass was shut out of the bidding or it would have gone for over a million. That puts the value in a range of $7-10M. What it realized is smack dab in the middle of that range - a fair value.
The more I see of DLH's methods, the less it makes sense to me. I am starting to see him as more of an assembler than a collector, which is not what I was hoping for when I first heard about him jumping into this with his resources.
Does somebody with a true passion for coins and virtually infinite resources relative to his competition pass up a true rarity like this that he will probably never have another chance to own over 1/4th of 1% of his total net worth (~$4bn)? The median middle class person in this country has a net worth of around $90,000. $10,000,000 to DLH is the equivalent of $225 to them, the cost of a common date CC GSA Morgan.
If I had his resources and I wanted to be "the next Eliasberg" I am having my representative raise their arm and not put it down until I hear the hammer. Full stop.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
My take is that the goal IS Eliasberg, with the caveat that he won't grossly overpay what he thinks the market is. It's a smart strategy in that it keeps sellers honest, but less than optimal in that some coins may not be acquired.
Not that I have a lot of experience (or ever will) in stuff at this level, but isn't a 20% fee on top of a $7M coin kinda steep?
In this case, the 20% fee amounted to $1.4 million. But regardless of the % (amount) of the buyer’s premium, it can easily be factored into a bid. If the winning bidder hadn’t been willing to pay $8.4 million, he simply would have bid less.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I certainly feel like this coin should have been a top priority. Opportunity cost is significant and completion is very important for most collectors. I would have stretched but he DLH hasn't gotten to where his is by sheer luck. To each his own.
I didn't realize that 90+% came from Clapp. Does anyone know if there was any discussion of selling Eliasberg's collection intact?