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1822 $5 at $8.4M!

BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 12,059 ✭✭✭✭✭

Great result!

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Comments

  • NSPNSP Posts: 322 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m a little bummed that it didn’t break the record, but third place is definitely not bad. I too hope that Hansen got it, since that would be a major milestone for his collection.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 4:53PM

    It sold for a bit more than I expected. It's my #1 US Mint issue coin though.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 4:57PM

    Was TDN not going for it? Anyways congrats to the new owner!!!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 5:43PM

    @MFeld said:

    @1peter1223 said:
    Hopefully Mr. DLH , won it .

    IMO , ownership of this coin ( $5 1822 ) and the 1933 $20 is necessary to equal or best Eliasberg .

    Regardless of how rare/famous those two coins are, based on what he’s already purchased (and likely will in the future), I think it would be an injustice to require that they be added to his collection in order to “equal or best Eliasberg. I think it would be more equatable to look at the entirety of each collection.

    The reality is Hansen is already doing more because he's collecting business strikes and proofs and he has many more moderns to contend with.

    However, another reality is the top coins are what people talk about, like:

    • Eliasberg 1822 Half Eagle
    • Eliasberg 1913 Barber Nickel
    • Eliasberg 1933 DE
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,706 ✭✭✭✭✭

    oh man. if only i could use language that the expression was originally told.

    but

    there are lots of ways to measure a "great" collection. perhaps if yoda were here he could enlighten us about greatness.

    my recommendation is to not seek greatness.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,161 ✭✭✭✭✭

    my recommendation is to not seek greatness.

    Some can’t help but to....

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 5:48PM

    I think that's a fair price as well for given the survivors and condition.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 5:45PM

    @1peter1223 said:
    Currin just posted in the DLH thread it was Not Mr. DLH , that won the 1822 $5 .
    I was hoping he would win it . Really cool to follow the progression of his incredible collection .

    If I were in his position, I would be thinking about the upcoming 1933 DE.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 5:57PM

    @tradedollarnut said:
    my recommendation is to not seek greatness.

    Some can’t help but to....

    Sometimes, my bid button finger can't help but to keep clicking....

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 5:57PM

    @wondercoin said:
    And, IMHO, this half eagle coin is entirely irrelevant to whether Mr. Hansen’s overall collection is viewed as “great” or not in the future.

    Agree from the perspective that the 1822 is a big coin, but it's not as big as others. You need to have this and the others.

    When thought about this way, what Eliasberg did was really incredible, though the 1933 DE was easier to acquire in his day.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 6:01PM

    @1peter1223 said:

    @Zoins said:

    If I were in his position, I would be thinking about the upcoming 1933 DE.

    I would agree with you but the fact that the govt has a group of these that are still open to ownership litigation is a black cloud .
    Who can say for sure they do not go back on their word , enter in agreement with the previous owners for some sort of mutually beneficial agreement of sale/auction ?

    There are also rumored to be a few more unaccounted pieces out there .

    I don't think the Langbord coins are still open to litigation. If anyone wants to bet more than the Weitzman coin will be legally ownable in our lifetimes, I'll take that bet. Of course, that's not a good bet because I won't be alive to collect ;)

    The only way another will be ownable is if some government authorization appears such as another export license or something like the NASA moon dust bag sale.

    Pretty risky to bid 10M or so for the 1933 $20 .

    No guts, no glory.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “But only one guy went out and paid the ransom necessary for completeness.”

    Well said.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 6:06PM

    @tradedollarnut said:
    DLH already has one of the greatest collections ever formed and obviously it’s only going to get better. But only one guy went out and paid the ransom necessary for completeness. Apparently, that won’t be eclipsed in my lifetime.

    Completeness is interesting since Eliasberg didn't do business strike and proofs but Hansen is.

    To some extent, the collections are both great but different.

    I wouldn't make such a strong judgment on @DLHansen. He hasn't been collecting that long and may be able to pick up some coins he's missed later. When building a collection of this size, some budgeting strategy may be necessary.

  • TheGoonies1985TheGoonies1985 Posts: 5,344 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    I think that’s a fair price. Not too high, not too low.

    Did you win it?

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,879 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats to the buyer. $8.4 MM "feels right" for that coin, not that I have any business getting near that velvet rope. How does this compare with the estimates made in threads both before this sale the original Pogue sale in which it was passed?

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @Boosibri said:
    How can you be committed to the Eliasberg quest and pass on the 1822.


    On the other hand, how much fun would it be to collect coins if you felt obligated to pay any imaginable price for the coins you need? I think that for most of us making the tough decisions is part of the fun.

    Based on the fact that DLH has upgraded quite a substantial number of his coins, it seems he's prioritized moving up in various Registry categories over acquiring certain mega-rarities at any cost. At least for now.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @Boosibri said:
    How can you be committed to the Eliasberg quest and pass on the 1822.

    On the other hand, how much fun would it be to collect coins if you felt obligated to pay any imaginable price for the coins you need? I think that for most of us making the tough decisions is part of the fun.

    Agree, if it’s no challenge, people would likely move on to other hobbies.

  • GoBustGoBust Posts: 591 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021 7:56PM

    Dell Loy has only been on his Eliasberg quest for what about four years? Eliasberg had been at it for how long 25+ years? The Hansen collection built set by set, piece by piece, has been an incredible initial run. Eliasberg of course bought 90%+ in one fell swoop. I don't think any of us might imagine where the Hansen collection is going to end up before all is said and done.

    Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.

  • @MrEureka said:

    @Boosibri said:
    How can you be committed to the Eliasberg quest and pass on the 1822.

    On the other hand, how much fun would it be to collect coins if you felt obligated to pay any imaginable price for the coins you need? I think that for most of us making the tough decisions is part of the fun.

    Thats the whole problem with certain collecting objectives. If you decide to build a PCGS type set, you need a 1793 liberty cap cent or you miss your goal. So if you tell the whole world you will be the next Eliasberg, you need the 1822 5, or you missed your goal of being the next Eliasberg. So you can be something else, but not the next Eliasberg.

  • @GoBust said:
    Dell Loy has only been on his Eliasberg quest for what about four years? Eliasberg had been at it for how long 25+ years? The Hansen collection built set by set, piece by piece, has been an incredible initial run. Eliasberg of course bought 90%+ in one fell swoop. I don't think any of us might imagine where the Hansen collection is going to end up before all is said and done.

    Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.

    I believe the 1822 5 was used by someone to put money away, to be protected from inflation and made from stocks.
    If the value of your stock portfolio just increased from 200 million to 1 Billion in the last year, its easy to make such a purchase.
    I personally dont think this way. I dont want to spend 10 million on anything I think it should be worth 5 - 6 million, and will be worth again this in future probably.
    I was planing to bid on the 1822 5 too, I just dont see how its a 8.4 Million USD coin, meaning every other deal I saw I prefer over this one, including the 1804 ten, the Gem Brasher Doubloon and the PCGS 67 20 USD Paquet.
    I rather would have the Gem Brasher Doubloon at 10 Million than this one at 8.4, actually the Brasher looks cheap now, like all other big coins that sold recently.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,069 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoBust said:
    ...
    Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.

    By “the most expensive US gold coin ever sold”, did you mean the 1822 $5 or the Brasher at $9.36 million?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ExbritExbrit Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭✭
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021 5:28AM

    Perhaps DLH's strategy is similar to about 1/2 a dozen coins I just bought but was outbid on a recent auction. I purchased them all for around 1/2 a bid increment more than they sold for(this auction didn't allow cut bids either and the bid increments were huge). The most expensive was around $600 less than it would have cost me if I had bid again. Of course that has 4 scenarios! The winner might not sell it or not be located, It could of sold for another bump above me, I win it, or buy it later like I did!

    The next bid increment on the 1822 was more than most of our collections are worth!

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A very impressive price for a very important coin. I'm in the camp that believes Hansen should've done what it takes to put this one in his collection. Of course, it's not my money, so it's easy to say that from where I sit.
    Given his quest and his money, this just seems like a missed opportunity. A very big missed opportunity, and one that may not repeat itself in his lifetime. And that alone seems worthy of overpaying.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,161 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021 6:46AM

    I look at it this way - which would I rather have - $20M worth of duplicates or two or three really rare coins such as this. To me, the answer if obvious with the stated goal. Without the stated goal, then it’s a little more murky.

    So maybe the goal was stated to throw us all into a tizzy every now and then.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    So maybe the goal was stated to throw us all into a tizzy every now and then.

    I wonder if the public collecting is to entertain us or if we are the entertainment ;)

  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    So maybe the goal was stated to throw us all into a tizzy every now and then.

    If so, it has certainly worked!

    Great for publicity...keeps people talking about his collection.

    Whatever his actual goal is, it's a nice collection most of us can only dream about, even without the 1822 $5.

  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    $20M worth of duplicates or two or three really rare coins such as this.

    My first thought is that I'd rather have the two or three really rare coins, but...the $20M in duplicates would probably be easier to sell with more of a chance to make a profit.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021 7:13AM

    @amwldcoin said:
    Perhaps DLH's strategy is similar to about 1/2 a dozen coins I just bought but was outbid on a recent auction. I purchased them all for around 1/2 a bid increment more than they sold for(this auction didn't allow cut bids either and the bid increments were huge). The most expensive was around $600 less than it would have cost me if I had bid again. Of course that has 4 scenarios! The winner might not sell it or not be located, It could of sold for another bump above me, I win it, or buy it later like I did!

    The next bid increment on the 1822 was more than most of our collections are worth!

    I don't think the strategy you described works on a coin which only had three (or four) owners in the last 115 years. (You essentially admitted this in your post.) To buy this coin any time soon, any prospective buyer will mostly likely have to pay more than one bid increment more. I do not see that the new owner would have an incentive to sell it otherwise.

    What you described isn't likely to be optimal even for many of the coins I collect which are worth a low fraction of 1% of this one.

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,161 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @GoBust said:
    ...
    Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.

    By “the most expensive US gold coin ever sold”, did you mean the 1822 $5 or the Brasher at $9.36 million?

    By US do you mean officially issued United States or loosely affiliated United States?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MidLifeCrisis said:

    @tradedollarnut said:
    $20M worth of duplicates or two or three really rare coins such as this.

    My first thought is that I'd rather have the two or three really rare coins, but...the $20M in duplicates would probably be easier to sell with more of a chance to make a profit.

    Which approach would you enjoy more?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021 7:44AM

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @MFeld said:

    @GoBust said:
    ...
    Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.

    By “the most expensive US gold coin ever sold”, did you mean the 1822 $5 or the Brasher at $9.36 million?

    By US do you mean officially issued United States or loosely affiliated United States?

    If your question was for me, I was quoting GoBust and I’m not sure what he meant by it. Hence, my question to him.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,540 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @MidLifeCrisis said:

    @tradedollarnut said:
    $20M worth of duplicates or two or three really rare coins such as this.

    My first thought is that I'd rather have the two or three really rare coins, but...the $20M in duplicates would probably be easier to sell with more of a chance to make a profit.

    Which approach would you enjoy more?

    Since we're talking about duplicates, I would enjoy the two or three really rare coins more.

    However, if my goal is to buy coins as placeholders while I steadily upgrade my collection, then sell the duplicates to raise money for future purchases, I could see getting a lot of enjoyment from buying and selling and searching for better coins for my collection.

    Is it the journey (selling duplicates and upgrading) or the destination (owning 2 or 3 really rare coins)?

    Maybe the answer is both.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,955 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @MFeld said:

    @GoBust said:
    ...
    Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.

    By “the most expensive US gold coin ever sold”, did you mean the 1822 $5 or the Brasher at $9.36 million?

    By US do you mean officially issued United States or loosely affiliated United States?

    If your question was for me, I was quoting GoBust and I’m not sure what he meant by it. Hence, my question to him.

    The Brasher "Doubloon" is no more a coin than the Continental "Dollar." Both are privately made tokens, or medals.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,161 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021 8:06AM

    I was planing to bid on the 1822 5 too, I just dont see how its a 8.4 Million USD coin

    At the Eliasberg sale in 1982, his UHR sold for $240k and it’s now worth ten times that amount. Ten times what the 1822 fetched is a little under $7M but what isn’t known is that Harry Bass was shut out of the bidding or it would have gone for over a million. That puts the value in a range of $7-10M. What it realized is smack dab in the middle of that range - a fair value.

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The more I see of DLH's methods, the less it makes sense to me. I am starting to see him as more of an assembler than a collector, which is not what I was hoping for when I first heard about him jumping into this with his resources.

    Does somebody with a true passion for coins and virtually infinite resources relative to his competition pass up a true rarity like this that he will probably never have another chance to own over 1/4th of 1% of his total net worth (~$4bn)? The median middle class person in this country has a net worth of around $90,000. $10,000,000 to DLH is the equivalent of $225 to them, the cost of a common date CC GSA Morgan.

    If I had his resources and I wanted to be "the next Eliasberg" I am having my representative raise their arm and not put it down until I hear the hammer. Full stop.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • lsicalsica Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭✭

    Not that I have a lot of experience (or ever will) in stuff at this level, but isn't a 20% fee on top of a $7M coin kinda steep?

    Philately will get you nowhere....
  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I certainly feel like this coin should have been a top priority. Opportunity cost is significant and completion is very important for most collectors. I would have stretched but he DLH hasn't gotten to where his is by sheer luck. To each his own.

  • nagsnags Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭

    @GoBust said:
    Dell Loy has only been on his Eliasberg quest for what about four years? Eliasberg had been at it for how long 25+ years? The Hansen collection built set by set, piece by piece, has been an incredible initial run. Eliasberg of course bought 90%+ in one fell swoop. I don't think any of us might imagine where the Hansen collection is going to end up before all is said and done.

    Nonetheless, congrats to the collector who stepped up and out bid another collector for the amazingly rare 1822 half eagle. Hard to top the most expensive US gold coin ever sold. I wonder how long the collector will hold that title.... we will see in a few months.

    I didn't realize that 90+% came from Clapp. Does anyone know if there was any discussion of selling Eliasberg's collection intact?

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