Another 09S VDB for the experts here to judge a FAKE or not?

MarkW63

Like the others, this is an ebay listing out of Germany!
I've looked this one over several different times now and I've decided to me that its questionable enough to post on the forum.
I was ask when I make these post to include pictures of the coins so everyone can see the coin if the listings gets pulled before they get a chance to see it.
In the one picture I inserted red marks at near the items that I've questioned most.
The cross bar in the A seems to have to much upward arch.
The lower leg difference between the two E's and how they're formed.
Lastly, to me its overall WEAR condition doesn't compare to its look of age, so, I'm thinking its age may be FAKED (made to look old)
Now, the question for the experts here, is it real or a FAKE?
Currently its up to $899.00

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB-Wheat-Penny-Lincoln-Cent-1c-Better-Grade-XF-AU-Detail-RARE-30578/164762532089?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20180105095853&meid=1bbf92becb9743aaacba513e01a8770b&pid=100903&rk=3&rkt=20&mehot=none&sd=164703676621&itm=164762532089&pmt=0&noa=1&pg=2510209&_trksid=p2510209.c100903.m5276

astrorat

Counterfeit from spark erosion dies?

MarkW63

@astrorat said:
Counterfeit from spark erosion dies?

The pic I looked at on a genuine one does show some differences in the same letters, but the one in the ebay listing those issue appear to be more out of shape, maybe sloppy is a good term?
Here is a pic of the same are on a genuine one.

MsMorrisine

no VDB

MsMorrisine

if they sell lots of us coins and are an honest dealer, a simple ebay message should get them to end it.

astrorat

@MarkW63 said:

@astrorat said:
Counterfeit from spark erosion dies?

The pic I looked at on a genuine one does show some differences in the same letters, but the one in the ebay listing those issue appear to be more out of shape, maybe sloppy is a good term?

The raised "bumps" on the obverse look similar to the defects resulting from creating counterfeit dies by spark erosion.

MarkW63

@MsMorrisine said:
no VDB

When I had mentioned this coin in another post I made that comment about no visible VDB. But when I was working on the pictures for this listing I got to focused on the lettering on the reverse and didn't even think to mention the Non visible V.D.B.
The coin just don't look right and the seller is claiming an EF to AU condition, I don't think so.
Other things I noticed about the coin,
on the obverse the O in God don't is messed up!
The E in WE doesn't seem to have the correct drop, (a little high).

AUandAG

I messaged the seller and he indicated it's the weak VDB variety.......

bob

MarkW63

@AUandAG said:
I messaged the seller and he indicated it's the weak VDB variety.......

bob

Yea, really weak!

BuffaloIronTail

Yep. It's weak alright.

Because it isn't there....................

Strange. Has to be phony. Looks like a die#4 mintmark position. The only obverse to share both V.D.B. and non-V.D.B. coins was said to be die#1.

Somebody other than the Mint made that coin. (Edited to change "reverse" to "obverse".)

Pete

yspsales

Informative couple of threads.

Thank you for your tenacity.

ricko

Looks fake to me.... I would pass just on the faint or non-existent VDB.... There does seem to be faint letters there, but takes a good imagination... Cheers, RickO

mr1931S

That piece is a mess.

JBK

The raised bumps on the obverse are all I need to see. No reason to look further.