Can I escape the dreaded details grade ?

bidask

When I submit this coin what will it grade in you opinion?

Boosibri

Only if you send it to NNC

pruebas

Is that really the coin you want in your collection?

I’d rather go without that date than have that coin. Life is too short to have to look at that more than once.

Bob13

Based on my recent experience.... no.

Abuelo

Not in a millenia.

coinkat

doubtful... I would rather see the coin in hand. There are obvious planchet flaws. There is something to be said about owning a coin that captures all the problems that plagued the various mints in Mexico. This coin really has a certain charm as to its historical significance. Most collectors are just not willing to look at this one through that lens which is an unfortunate. Most collectors have historical challenges with the mintage process low on their priorities in favor of eye appeal and what matters to those that make the market.

syl

It's a "detail" coin all the way.

EBSnumismatics

Not a coin that is appealing to the "market" but the market changes and Central and South America silver is certainly on the come up

angelo43

It's a detail for me but not because of the planchet but the "staining"

bidask

@angelo43 said:
It's a detail for me but not because of the planchet but the "staining"

I looked closely at the “staining “ and I thought it to be not big deal

I had another 8 reales grade ( no details grade ) with a rubber band mark across the reverse

koincollect

I am thinking if you send it under the mint error tier would get graded. It does not seem to be damage, rather a planchet fault.

ncsuwolf74

Only one way to find out😀

MrEureka

The planchet flaw shouldn't be an issue. The "stains" could be. Is the dark area in the center of the stains foreign material sitting on top of the surface of the coin? If so, conservation is in order. If it ate into the metal, it's probably hopeless. And if it's just discoloration, it could get a straight grade.

amwldcoin

In my eyes the coin has corrosion. Could be the pictures and I hope I'm wrong.

bidask

@MrEureka said:
The planchet flaw shouldn't be an issue. The "stains" could be. Is the dark area in the center of the stains foreign material sitting on top of the surface of the coin? If so, conservation is in order. If it ate into the metal, it's probably hopeless. And if it's just discoloration, it could get a straight

PillarDollarCollector

I doubt you will always land the highest graded coins. Would you not be happy to have the ones you can get and the rest in the grades you also can get. At least get to your goal of a complete series or close to it.

bidask

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
I doubt you will always land the highest graded coins. Would you not be happy to have the ones you can get and the rest in the grades you also can get. At least get to your goal of a complete series or close to it.

No I would not be happy.

PillarDollarCollector

@bidask said:

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
I doubt you will always land the highest graded coins. Would you not be happy to have the ones you can get and the rest in the grades you also can get. At least get to your goal of a complete series or close to it.

No I would not be happy.

Then you have your answer I would just stick with the grades that make you happy. Anything else just let them go by.

PillarDollarCollector

This coin does not look up to your goal as far as standards are concerned. Why have it graded?

bidask

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
This coin does not look up to your goal as far as standards are concerned. Why have it graded?

Cause I think it has a shot to straight grade 😊

PillarDollarCollector

@bidask said:

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
This coin does not look up to your goal as far as standards are concerned. Why have it graded?

Cause I think it has a shot to straight grade 😊

Sure why not but most likely not mint state like you like them. Hey give it a try and see.

bidask

KingofMorganDollar

I thought you read RESPLANDORES

Look again how D&P describe the availability of this date and mint .

PillarDollarCollector

@bidask said:
KingofMorganDollar

I thought you read RESPLANDORES

Look again how D&P describe the availability of this date and mint .

I did but never said I was near master level just a newbie still. I will look at it this evening. You know way more than I do. Reading a book once versus 6-7 years and all the time you spent collecting and searching I am not even close to that level of knowledge. I have zero problem admitting it either.

And I accept the fact I may never know them all by hearth either it's a lot of information and then there is the 1732-1821 series then the Hooknecks and Pesos may take me a decade or more to be where you at your level.

PillarDollarCollector

I just looked it up it says scarce for the date and mint but only becomes rare to very in certain grades. I do not believe it will grade up to the very rare level.

Am I missing or not looking at it properly is there something that makes it rare or rarer?

bidask

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
I just looked it up it says scarce for the date and mint but only becomes rare to very in certain grades. I do not believe it will grade up to the very rare level.

Am I missing or not looking at it properly is there something that makes it rare or rarer?

Meaning finding nice specimen that’s not necessarily mint state would be fine with me .😊

pruebas

PillarDollarCollector

@bidask said:

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
I just looked it up it says scarce for the date and mint but only becomes rare to very in certain grades. I do not believe it will grade up to the very rare level.

Am I missing or not looking at it properly is there something that makes it rare or rarer?

Meaning finding nice specimen that’s not necessarily mint state would be fine with me .😊

OK that is what I thought just was not sure. Then give it shot.

MasonG

@bidask said:
Look again how D&P describe the availability of this date and mint .

What does availability have to do with the condition of any particular example? Are you thinking that a scarce date with problems should straight grade when a common date with the same problems wouldn't?

bidask

@MasonG said:

@bidask said:
Look again how D&P describe the availability of this date and mint .

What does availability have to do with the condition of any particular example? Are you thinking that a scarce date with problems should straight grade when a common date with the same problems wouldn't?

Not at all .

Your question about availability and condition of any particular example tells me your apparently not familiar with this series .

MasonG

@bidask said:
Your question about availability and condition of any particular example tells me your apparently not familiar with this series .

If you say so. Carry on.

neildrobertson

Can we talk about what is going on with the metal? Your photos make it seem like the discoloration is the result of the planchet issue.

bidask

@neildrobertson said:
Can we talk about what is going on with the metal? Your photos make it seem like the discoloration is the result of the planchet issue.

sure, I thought Mr Eureka sums it up.....

neildrobertson

@bidask said:

@neildrobertson said:
Can we talk about what is going on with the metal? Your photos make it seem like the discoloration is the result of the planchet issue.

sure, I thought Mr Eureka sums it up.....

He just mentioned it in the context of grading. I meant in the context of the minting process.

This makes it look like that semi-circular area is a ribbon of metal that wasn't in the original melt that got bonded through the planchet preparation process. Doesn't it seem like there is a seam in the metal next to the void?

bidask

I think you may be right . If so would it straight grade in your opinion ?

neildrobertson

I have no idea what the PCGS policies are. I personally would not straight grade it. The damage on the rim and the discoloration, even if it occurred before the coin was struck, warrants some kind of acknowledgement. I feel like it would be misleading if it was in the same holder as another coin without that.

I also have the belief that PCGS should be giving registry points to details coins. I don't think a details holder should be the kiss of death that it sometimes seems to be.

jgenn

A grader is not necessarily well versed in these minting processes and you need to have both graders to agree on a straight grade or you are sunk.