graded_psa_cards sold me a resealed wax box
ReggieCleveland
Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just wanted to give my friends here a heads up since I know this is right in a lot of people's wheelhouse. I bought a 1987 Topps "J-box" (the factory sealed boxes distributed to wholesale clubs) and got a regular box that was resealed with modern cellophane and a reprinted SW sticker. You know you'll stoop to any low when you're resealing '87 Topps boxes.
For those that have doubts, I own a good share of these boxes and are familiar with how they're wrapped. The cellophane used -- and, in fact, the cellophane used on all Topps factory sealed boxes prior to 1992 -- is the same cellophane that was used to wrap their cello packs. So the boxes are pretty much the same: brittle cellophane with glued overlaps (on two ends in the case of a wax box) to seal the box. They also have an oddly shaped ripcord on the bottom of the boxes, almost like something you could use to tear the cellophane off with (see pics of bottoms).
The resealed box was done with modern cellophane, the type that resembles Saran-wrap and the type that is used on every modern unopened product produced today. And just like those modern products, this box was wrapped with a shrink-wrapper and heating element that produced three connecting lines of seal points across the length of three sides. In an attempt to replicate the look of overlapping cellophane folds, they left a large amount of excess cellophane and then used a heat gun to crumple it all together on the front panel. Unfortunately, it left large corners of cellophane sticking out, which I highlight in the pictures.
Hopefully, you now know more about 1987 J-boxes than you ever really wanted and hopefully you won't ever end up buying bad product from these bozos.
Arthur
Comments
Did you open the box or are you just sending it back?
I’m actually a little surprised nobody has attempted this with bbce product. Get your own shrink wrap printed with the logo, reproduce the bottom sticker, etc. With a lot of bbce wrapped stuff staying sealed it could be years before anyone found out.
Did you reach out to the seller and inquire why you got what you got? They could have got it that way and they may not be an expert in the history of topps box wrapping like you are. You haven't really given us a legitimate reason why the seller is a "bozo".
Thanks for that video. Imagine someone’s anger if they decided to crack open a 1975 Topps baseball box after owning it for 20 years only to find 1988 packs inside.
It's probably going to happen a lot unfortunately.
It would be a great feature if steve did what PSA is now doing by taking pics of the certified items along with the cert numbers. To compare if someone is making fake wraps. Especially something like a 1975 box or anything valued over 5k.
100% agree. Any third-party that offers a grading service should be capturing pictures of the actual item to help prevent the fakes and counterfeits. It could also help prevent some of the "doctoring" of single cards that has been reported on other forums...
Just sending it back. My plan was to keep it sealed anyway so I'm lucky they're so very, very bad at resealing wax boxes. Imagine if two years ago someone told you there would be people going through the trouble of resealing 1987 Topps J-boxes? You'd slap them in their stupid face with your fake Gucci bag and go get one of BK's new tacos.
Arthur
That’s a very amateurish and pathetic attempt at faking a BBCE box. The bottom label and associated BBCE logos were literally attached to the box itself.
I do wonder, though, if fake attempts would become more commonplace because BBCE now prints the bottom label’s information (year, brand, etc) instead of handwriting it.
I'll say this, and it appears to apply to the box from that video too, I knew the box was a fake within 5 seconds of opening the cardboard box, pushing back the packing peanuts and just visually seeing the cellophane on the top of the wax box. Obviously, I then proceeded to investigate further and purchased a one-way ticket to Red Flag City but my point is: you don't need to be paranoid about buying a BBCE box.
You just need to have the mindset that you need to give each box you buy a quick once-over when you get it. Also, I don't want to speak for BBCE, but knowing Steve and those folks for many years I don't think Steve would mind for one second if you shot him a few pics of your box and said "does this look like it should be like this?" Knowing Steve, he would probably be summiting Everest and stop to email you back.
Or post a thread on here. There's a thousand people here that know all about unopened product and BBCE boxes and what they should and shouldn't look like. But ALWAYS trust your gut. If you feel like something is off, ask someone. Buy a wrapped 1989 Score Baseball box directly from BBCE so you have a control item and know exactly how they wrap their boxes.
If you're not comfortable with any of that you're always more than welcome to PM me. If I don't know the answer I guarantee I know someone will know it.
Arthur
Right now the fakes are obvious. I worry that they will get better. When 1980 wax boxes are selling for $10k, the risk is greatly elevated that the crooks will start investing money into better faking equipment. I hope BBCE can stay ahead of that game.
Interesting. Sucks
I remember people faked the Upper Deck logo wraps. I hope there is a money trail for a lot of these high dollar boxes like this one. I remember similar things happening a few years ago with cheap Wall Mart boxes where they would reseal them with junk and get a refund from Wall Mart. Shady and I bet there is a lot more of this. Wonder who sold this one. So they gave this 175,000.00 box away for free?
Just glad I don't have the $$ to even be tempted on these types of high-dollar items. Just crazy.
Here was another '86 Fleer box break from the National that had me wondering if this box may have been tampered with. The count was one #57 and two stickers until a second #57 popped from the final pack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpurk80aolk
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Edit
Thought the skybox wrap looked loose but Im not an expert. And I see others sold on ebay were also loosely wrapped ish
Watching the handling of those cards during the break made me cringe. The two Jordan #57 looked to have good centering with the 2nd one being off a bit T/B, but after the handling the corners were knocked to an 8 at best 😲
That was clearly a Frankenstein box. I am guessing it was labeled as “36 packs” and not a “Wax box” as the packs were all legit, but they were not all original to the box.
Absolutely, these packs were not legit. The packs were "collated" in actual alphabetic order! LOLOL
Looks like Goldin sold it and it was BBCE authenticated... WOW. That would change the industry a bit. lol
I wonder how much of this really high profile wax is authentic. Most of it won't get opened, which is pretty attractive to scammers. The Poke case, this 168K box. These can't be isolated events.
Is there a video of the BBCE wrap being removed from box?
PC Walter Payton - Bear Down!
I'm not sure but this is the BBCE label directly from their website.
and this one is from the Goldin Auction.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Exactly as I expected. It is labeled as a 36 pack box which means this is an assortment of Frankenstein packs. Each pack is authentic, but not original to the box. If it was a factory box Steve labels those as a wax box and not 36 pack box. When you buy a 36 pack Frankenstein box you are rolling the dice as to how many Jordan packs are left versus cherry picked by the person that put it together. This is a subtlety in the way he labels but something that is important for the hobby to understand. There was no guarantee of any Jordan rookies in this box since it was pieced together. All that he was authenticating is that all 36 packs were legit.
^ What about the off sequencing though?
My understanding is the packs were not authentic, they were out of sequence.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
my goodness, Steve is so hard to watch speak with all the facial movements and twitches.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
it sure seems, the more i think about it that unopened is a rather fragile house of cards. the vast bulk of these high dollar boxes/cases will never be opened. the owners truly do not know for sure what they really have beneath the wrap. a huge portion of this niche is predicated on the expertise of one man. i would be very concerned if I had big money invested.
I remember after the pokemon debacle, that most excused steve from blame because he is a sports "expert"
I wonder what the excuse will be this time?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
There are three different threads covering this box. Seems overkill to me at a minimum. I will close two and watch the third. Please remember to limit the blind accusations.