Question about details coins that make you scratch your head

csdot

For some reason this seller's coins have the look I really like. Unfortunately for me, they all have a price I do not like. I have bought straight graded coins from this seller, but I don't buy detailed graded coins because I fear that when my wife goes to sell my coins, a details grade, deserved or not, will give the buyer the ability to say they are worth only melt due to the grader's opinion on the slab.

My question has to do with the detailes graded coins this dealer occasionally lists, usually at the price they would sell for if straight graded. I still like the look of the coins, and obviously the grader is seeing something that I don't because I wish all of my gold looked this nice with this same orange luster.

Do sellers like this just have a bad rep with the graders and that is why so many of his coins end up in details holders?

Or does this seller just look for really nice coins already in details holders that he can list and sell?

Here are some examples of some very nice looking gold that the graders did not like:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1878-20-Liberty-Double-Eagle-Gold-Coin-PCGS-Genuine-UNC-Details-Choice-BU/201411509190?hash=item2ee50fbbc6:g:OQIAAOSw3ydV1iYQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1900-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-PCGS-Genuine-Alt-Surface-Very-Choice-BU-AKR/190702265804?hash=item2c66bda5cc:g:O0IAAMXQ~c9RHaE6

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1848-D-2-50-Quarter-Eagle-Gold-Coin-PCGS-Genuine-UNC-Details-Cleaning-Choice/182069101594?hash=item2a642a041a:g:OloAAOSwMmBV1hPk

nwcoast

I often wonder about this as well.
I’m no expert on gold, and look forward to reading what others say on this.
Those coins look fine to me. They are bright, but not defined as being cleaned.

I have a proof Indian cent, that I just don’t understand why- had also been flagged with questionable color.

Might these be a little too red?
Would be nice if they said ‘why’.

MFeld

Often, cleaning (and other problems, such as “altered surfaces”) will not be evident in mages, because, in order to detect it, the coin needs to be tilted and rotated under a light.

And this isn’t about a seller having a bad rep with the graders. He might not have submitted the coins for grading, rather than having purchased them in their current holders. But even if he did submit them, there’s no reason to think the graders knew whose coins they were grading and that they had it in for him.

ricko

Buy the coins you like.... If you buy a problem coin, but like it, then just enjoy it. If coins with problems bother you (and most coin people have an OCD affliction), then pass it up.... it will always bother you. Cheers, RickO

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:
Often, cleaning (and other problems, such as “altered surfaces”) will not be evident in mages, because, in order to detect it, the coin needs to be tilted and rotated under a light.

And this isn’t about a seller having a bad rep with the graders. He might not have submitted the coins for grading, rather than having purchased them in their current holders. But even if he did submit them, there’s no reason to think the graders knew whose coins they were grading and that they had it in for him.

This!

The OP is focused on the coins and the reputation of the seller in the coin world. The seller may just be an excellent photographer whose photos make the coins appear nicer than they are.

Catbert

My memory from attending several major shows is that this dealer prices all of his coins, details or straight, very aggressively. A nice guy, but I'm not a buyer.

jesbroken

Buying details coins is for collectors not resellers, in my opinion. Some details coins are superior to straight graded coins, but may have some slight blemish or color the graders didn't like. I have bought many details Buffalo Nickels and removed them from the holders for my albums. Many, many AU58 coins that are detailed are still gorgeous coins(not speaking of damaged or frying pan colored coins, but just coins graders detailed).
Jim

amwldcoin

That is not the mark of an excellent photographer IMHO!

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:
Often, cleaning (and other problems, such as “altered surfaces”) will not be evident in mages, because, in order to detect it, the coin needs to be tilted and rotated under a light.

And this isn’t about a seller having a bad rep with the graders. He might not have submitted the coins for grading, rather than having purchased them in their current holders. But even if he did submit them, there’s no reason to think the graders knew whose coins they were grading and that they had it in for him.

This!

The OP is focused on the coins and the reputation of the seller in the coin world. The seller may just be an excellent photographer whose photos make the coins appear nicer than they are.

Cougar1978

Simply Avoid details graded coins. They are a no go for me.

Furthermore the 1878 $20 priced way over MS60 money or melt for that matter.

jmlanzaf

@amwldcoin said:
That is not the mark of an excellent photographer IMHO!

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:
Often, cleaning (and other problems, such as “altered surfaces”) will not be evident in mages, because, in order to detect it, the coin needs to be tilted and rotated under a light.

And this isn’t about a seller having a bad rep with the graders. He might not have submitted the coins for grading, rather than having purchased them in their current holders. But even if he did submit them, there’s no reason to think the graders knew whose coins they were grading and that they had it in for him.

This!

The OP is focused on the coins and the reputation of the seller in the coin world. The seller may just be an excellent photographer whose photos make the coins appear nicer than they are.

To know how to do it IS the mark of an excellent photographer.

trueblood

That seller has some wild ebay reputation, oh wow
well maybe not, he/she has a lot of coin transactions
but he/she has some gorgeous inventory, a but pricey but still some great stuff

amwldcoin

Well, I don't want to cast a negative light if you know what I mean!

@jmlanzaf said:

@amwldcoin said:
That is not the mark of an excellent photographer IMHO!

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:
Often, cleaning (and other problems, such as “altered surfaces”) will not be evident in mages, because, in order to detect it, the coin needs to be tilted and rotated under a light.

And this isn’t about a seller having a bad rep with the graders. He might not have submitted the coins for grading, rather than having purchased them in their current holders. But even if he did submit them, there’s no reason to think the graders knew whose coins they were grading and that they had it in for him.

This!

The OP is focused on the coins and the reputation of the seller in the coin world. The seller may just be an excellent photographer whose photos make the coins appear nicer than they are.

To know how to do it IS the mark of an excellent photographer.

Aercus

Option 3: they know how to optimize images to make the coins appealing. Heres they thing, they may also be nice coins. Sometimes the graders will see a small patch of hairlines. That's enough for a details grade. Doesn't mean the coin isn't overall appealing. But it will hurt values significantly. Keep that in mind when buying.

HashTag

yolo

ChrisH821

My understanding is that Julian has been in the business for a LONG time and is highly regarded. He is(or at least was) a member here.
Unfortunately I can't buy from him, his prices are just too high, even for nice for the grade coins.

I will say I'm not playing in the rarities market so I can't really speak about those.

ElmerFusterpuck

This dealer has been a topic in the past. All I can say is if he really thinks a certain coin doesn't deserve a details grade, then resubmit. Either way, pricing a details holder coin at a much higher grade price will probably get more eyerolls than sales. It's his choice. My choice is to pass and move on.

BryceM

There are a handful of dealers that I respect, and enjoy speaking with, but set their prices too high to tempt me much.

As for details coins - the only problem is paying too much when the coin doesn’t deserve it. Knowing the right price point is the trick.

astrorat

The dealer has a sterling reputation as a honest person and a trusted dealer (and he is a nice guy to boot!). He sells coins for the prices he believes the coins are worth. Considering he has been successful for the last several decades, his formula seems to work well for him.

Buy the coins you like for the right price. Don't want your wife to sell problem coins on the way home from your funeral? Then don't buy problem coins.