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New Collector Needs Help Understanding PCGS grade Pics Posted!

WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 6, 2021 3:47AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Ok...I am so confused. I paid over $600 for a raw 1795 half cent because it looked in good shape considering it is over 200 years old. I just got this result from PCGS:

1795 1/2C PE Punctuated Date, BN
Genuine VG Details (97 - Environmental Damage)

So...does this mean my coin is worthless?

I feel so discouraged right now!😩

Comments

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021 9:55PM

    For a coin of that value I'd stick to a slabbed coin.

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021 10:01PM

    No it’s not worthless. Do you have pics? If the damage noted is minor, given the VG details, $600 might not be too far off its market value. I doubt you lost more than $150 including the grading fees. Good learning experience, too. Don’t be discouraged. ⭐️

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 15,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pics? If you want to chance it. There's always across the street? Of course that's entirely up to you. A coin such as that nature, would never be considered worthless. Nice coin dude, and I haven't even seen it. ;)

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SeattleSlammer said:
    No it’s not worthless. Do you have pics? If the damage noted is minor, given the VG details, $600 might not be too far off its market value. I doubt you lost more than $150 not including the grading fees. Good learning experience, too. Don’t be discouraged. ⭐️

    Thank you. My biggest concern is that it is not genuine or that it was cleaned. My second biggest concern is PCGS just lowered the value of my coin.

    I wish they would do a better job of explaining this grade. Their website explanation is confusing. After reading it I thought they were saying it is worthless because they can't assign a grade to it.🙄

    I would appreciate someone explaining to me in laymen terms what this label really means.

    I took a gamble and I am prepared to deal with the loss if in fact I did pay too much. I would appreciate feedback on how much my coin is worth with this label in today's market.

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joeykoins said:
    Pics? If you want to chance it. There's always across the street? Of course that's entirely up to you. A coin such as that nature, would never be considered worthless. Nice coin dude, and I haven't even seen it. ;)

    I will post pics when I receive it. Again, I am not questioning if PCGS gave it the correct label. It is what it is. I just don't understand what the label means and the website explanation just confuses me more🤣😂

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We’d need to see some pics to give a valuation opinion.

    PCGS is saying it’s genuine...and despite the noted environmental damage, it has VG8-VG10 details....so with no damage, it likely would have straight graded either VG8 or VG10.

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 15,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I, personally, don't have the knowledge as to what PCGS means to what they gave you on the slab. Maybe, hopefully someone with more experience in this technicality area, will have an answer for you. Sorry, can't help you any further. :/

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SeattleSlammer said:
    We’d need to see some pics to give a valuation opinion.

    PCGS is saying it’s genuine...and despite the noted environmental damage, it has VG8-VG10 details....so with no damage, it likely would have straight graded either VG8 or VG10.

    Understood. Thank you for confirming it is not a counterfeit. That was my biggest concern. This is for my collection and not for resale. My goal is to have the oldest US Mint coins for my collection. I can't afford a 1792 or 1793..I have a 1794 with more wear than this 1795 at PCGS waiting to see if they will cross it from a NGC slab. 🤞

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @astrorat said:
    Your coin is not worthless it just may not be worth what you anticipated. You have a "problem coin" and at least it is now in a genuine holder and can be assessed fairly. You paid a "bargain" price for a VG, and got a "bargain" VG coin. A problem-free, nice 1795 1/2c similar to yours in VG would likely run around $800-$1000, retail. You paid a lot less. Depending on the coin, you may have not done that bad and can learn a lot from the experience.

    Sorry if this sounds harsh ... by your description, you are new to collecting and are not familiar with the series. First, "looked in good shape" is not the way to grade a raw coin. And second, "considering it is over 200 years old" is fairly meaningless in numismatics. Just because a coin is 200 years old doesn't mean it should look a certain way. The description reminds me of how some people think their beat up Morgan dollar is in "perfect" condition for a coin over 100 years old. Age of the coin is not really relevant.

    You jumped into a deep part of the numismatic pool. Raw Early American Coppers are not easy and unless you do some studying before you buy, there is a high probability you will get stung (as you have found out).

    Education will help prevent future bad experiences. It's time to learn to grade coins before you continue to swim in the deep end.

    No worries! I don't think your comments are harsh. I admit my inexperience probably caused me to overpay for this coin and I appreciate you taking the time to offer your thoughts and advice.

    I bought this online and not in person so I knew the risk. As long as it's not a counterfeit and still has some value then I won't lose any sleep.

    I've lost more money at the casino!😂🤣

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021 10:50PM

    I think There’s more details late 1700s half cents and cents than there are straight graded. If you look on eBay it’s not uncommon for some of the straight graded ones to look worse than some of the details ones. They might just have some porosity from humidity or verdigree that was removed and left pitting or something along that nature.

    Mr_Spud

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021 11:01PM

    @WQuarterFreddie said:

    @joeykoins said:
    Pics? If you want to chance it. There's always across the street? Of course that's entirely up to you. A coin such as that nature, would never be considered worthless. Nice coin dude, and I haven't even seen it. ;)

    I will post pics when I receive it. Again, I am not questioning if PCGS gave it the correct label. It is what it is. I just don't understand what the label means and the website explanation just confuses me more🤣😂

    Since you know the grade already, that means you have the PCGS certification number which you can get the photo from PCGS site and post it here so people can get you a much better opinion

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If there is any pitting on the surface of those old coppers, it is called 'environmental damage'

    If you feel the PCGS slab lowers the coins value, take it out.

    One of the other grading services might give it a straight grade depending on how bad it is.

    Mike Sherman talks about it starting at 7:20 in this video

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nzpruoHc3g4&t=54s

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:

    @WQuarterFreddie said:

    @joeykoins said:
    Pics? If you want to chance it. There's always across the street? Of course that's entirely up to you. A coin such as that nature, would never be considered worthless. Nice coin dude, and I haven't even seen it. ;)

    I will post pics when I receive it. Again, I am not questioning if PCGS gave it the correct label. It is what it is. I just don't understand what the label means and the website explanation just confuses me more🤣😂

    Since you know the grade already, that means you have the PCGS certification number which you can get the photo from PCGS site and post it here so people can get you a much better opinion

    I clicked on the cert # but it doesn't show a pic🤔

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2021 3:46AM

    Duh! I just remembered I took pics before sending it to PCGS. Hopefully these are good enough 😎

  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    For a coin of that value I'd stick to a slabbed coin.

    This would be the safest way to go when buying expensive coins. Many times there is a reason that a coin is not certified when you buy it.

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    If there is any pitting on the surface of those old coppers, it is called 'environmental damage'

    If you feel the PCGS slab lowers the coins value, take it out.

    One of the other grading services might give it a straight grade depending on how bad it is.

    Mike Sherman talks about it starting at 7:20 in this video

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=nzpruoHc3g4&t=54s

    Yeah, I watched that video before posting this thread and that is why I was so worried. If you listen to it the narrator states that most dealers and buyers wouldn't want a coin graded as a 97. He made it sound like this label is the kiss of death🤣😂

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    For a coin of that value I'd stick to a slabbed coin.

    Little late for that! I can't change the past😂🤣

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CoinHoarder said:

    @koynekwest said:
    For a coin of that value I'd stick to a slabbed coin.

    This would be the safest way to go when buying expensive coins. Many times there is a reason that a coin is not certified when you buy it.

    This !!!

    Always be skeptical of a raw coin.

    We all pay a tuition in this hobby. This one was a rather cheap lesson.

    If you like the coin, keep it.

    Look at the ANA grading classes. You can take them at major shows when they resume.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Early American Coinage is the most difficult coins to become proficient at grading and evaluating. That is not a bad looking coin to me. The blue surfaces on the obverse are not normal and may be one of the reasons for your grade. But as your were previously told. That coin in the grade PCGS gave it disregarding the damage is of a value, even at $600. Just look at PCGS's CoinFacts price sheet. So don't be so down until you get the coin. And compare it's value to other like coins from HA, Great Collections, Ebay and other sales venues.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your coin is authentic, it is in the VG range.... Those are facts the slab tells you. Environmental damage on these old coppers is common.... Cheers, RickO

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WQuarterFreddie said:
    Duh! I just remembered I took pics before sending it to PCGS. Hopefully these are good enough 😎

    The black in the fields is what the environmental damage is. Copper shouldn't be black.

    "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @WQuarterFreddie said:
    Duh! I just remembered I took pics before sending it to PCGS. Hopefully these are good enough 😎

    The black in the fields is what the environmental damage is. Copper shouldn't be black.

    Interesting! Thank.you!

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a cool coin. I've been collecting for two decades and don't have any 18th century US coins. As others have noted, early coppers are a challenging field and take considerable knowledge to be proficient in, so buying coins that are already certified is the best move. In any case, keep it if you still like it or sell it if you don't.

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,111 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see 3 other potential problems with that coin that could have gotten it detailed, although they are more lenient on coins from the 1700's.

    1 bent - the reverse shows more wear from 10 to 4 o'clock, due to being bent (at one time if not now).
    2 rim damage - the reverse shows problems at 3 and 7 o'clock
    3 graffiti - the obverse has some deep gouges in front of mouth, below Y and below BE

    I am not sure what you paid, felt it should grade or be worth. It definitely still has value, but probably less than you thought when you bought it.

    I recently sold a raw 1794 half cent on eBay with obvious damage, and think it did well. I do not know if it would have sold more in a PCGS slab (but do know it would have taken a couple months and $50? to grade)

    https://ebay.com/itm/114688941705?_trksid=p2471758.m4703

  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2021 6:14AM

    A few commandments I follow...

    1) Raw $500 raw "bargains" have to be in my circle of competence... GSA Morgan for example.

    2) There is a reason the bargain is raw or in a modern ANACS/ICG holder and not a PCGS holder.

    3) Flatten the learning curve on copper by grading $1 common BU and Proof Lincolns.

    4) Flatten the learning curve on Silver by grading $25 proof set Kennedy/Franklins and common raw Morgan, Peace silver.

    I consider myself an above average collector, but it took time and I still make many glaring mistakes.

    Build a circle of competence in popular series.

    Easy to find raw and graded and easy to flip.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,089 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “Genuine” = authentic. No mystery.

    A review of CoinFacts image database for this type would have shown you what a gradeable coin looks like. Be very careful with early copper. It’s a tricky type to collect and given the expense for decent pieces, it’s easy to get burned.

    The expression “your reach exceeded your grasp” applies to numismatics at all experience levels. Before spending relative big amounts, take some time to understand what you are buying.

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    _ remember when that coin was offered on the BST forum. I thought and still do it is a neat looking coin for the grade. You may have overpaid yet not by a ridiculous amount, in my opinion. The obverse particularly is smooth and attractive overall._

    peacockcoins

  • JimWJimW Posts: 558 ✭✭✭✭

    @Mr_Spud said:
    I think There’s more details late 1700s half cents and cents than there are straight graded. If you look on eBay it’s not uncommon for some of the straight graded ones to look worse than some of the details ones. They might just have some porosity from humidity or verdigree that was removed and left pitting or something along that nature.

    Agree - there are way more details than straight-graded on eBay, GC, HA, or wherever. I only buy straight-graded, which is a real challenge to find the right date, look, and fair price. BTW - I have seen more than one straight grade that makes you wonder how it was not a details coin...

    Successful BST Transactions: erwindoc, VTchaser, moursund, robkool, RelicKING, Herb_T, Meltdown, ElmerFusterpuck

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2021 8:31AM

    Now that you’ve posted pics .... as another noted it appears to have more than just environmental damage — often PCGS won’t list every issue on a label when giving out the details grade, in large measure because there may not be enough space on the label.

    Still, it has its charms for being 18th century copper .... I still think you could get $400-ish for it if you shopped it around. Or better yet keep and enjoy it! It’s a cool coin.

  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Also, as another noted, some PCGS cert numbers will bring up the PCGS TruView photo. The labels with the gold shield icons on them have TruViews. But it’s a service you pay extra for at time of submission. And some other non-gold shield slabs will have TruViews too...you just have to check as you already did.

  • WQuarterFreddieWQuarterFreddie Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks everyone for your analysis and helpful comments!

    To be clear, I have no intention of selling the coin. It is part of my collection for my enjoyment.

    I feel better after all of your feedback! Thanks again!😎

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