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A couple of errors you don't see often, if ever.

MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

A clad Dime and Quarter planchet with a rim burr.

Comments

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Very cool B)

    So, I see a non struck in rim burr is considered an error and not damage.

    I was holding off certifying this coin because of the non struck in rim burr I thought may make the coin Unc details. I wonder if it would straight grade?

    Or have all three errors on the label, Off center, brockage, rim burr.

    Very nice. They SHOULD list all three errors on the label. The rim burr should have a Blakesley-like effect on the opposite rim.

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There's a limit to the number of letters that
    can be used at either service.

    The Blakesley Effect will not go on the label,
    (on a clip) as it's part of the clip occurance.

    I don't believe a rim burr would have a
    Blakesley Effect opposite it.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I see those as damaged planchets -
    a small part of the rim was damaged.

    When struck, yes, they are then Rim Burrs
    because that sheared piece is struck onto
    the coin's surface.

    Those are the first blanks or planchets I've
    EVER seen with that on them, except when
    the edge is sheared by a counting or rolling
    machine.

    Point well taken, but as I replied to Chris, there is a Blakesley-like effect opposite the rim burr.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    There's a limit to the number of letters that
    can be used at either service.

    The Blakesley Effect will not go on the label,
    (on a clip) as it's part of the clip occurance.

    I don't believe a rim burr would have a
    Blakesley Effect opposite it.

    Isn't that what a Blakesley effect is caused by on a clip? No pressure opposite the clip in the upset mill? If the planchet slips, then there is also no pressure opposite the rim burr. (I hope I'm making sense)

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mike, I don't see it ?

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see what you're saying in the first photo,
    but I'm not certain it's a Blakeseley Effect.

    I can't see it on the second coin.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I see what you're saying in the first photo,
    but I'm not certain it's a Blakeseley Effect.

    I can't see it on the second coin.

    It shows more on the "back" side. I'll post pictures in a few minutes. I'm not saying it IS a Blakesley effect, I called it a Blakesley-LIKE effect.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins Or have all three errors on the label, Off center, brockage, rim burr.

    Now that would be cool.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do very much value your opinion. Always have, always will.

  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Blakesley effect was the first thing I noticed on the dime planchet. I had always assumed rum burrs like that were caused post-production, where on that planchet it was obviously caused in the punching stage had existed before the upsetting mill. I wonder if that planchet had been struck as normal, would that effect have been obliterated by the strike?

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very informative thread. Thanks, guys.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @seanq said:
    The Blakesley effect was the first thing I noticed on the dime planchet. I had always assumed rum burrs like that were caused post-production, where on that planchet it was obviously caused in the punching stage had existed before the upsetting mill. I wonder if that planchet had been struck as normal, would that effect have been obliterated by the strike?

    Sean Reynolds

    Yep. Caused by slipping in the upset mill.

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I see what you're saying in the first photo,
    but I'm not certain it's a Blakeseley Effect.

    I can't see it on the second coin.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting... Never saw a rim burr before.... How do these get out of the mint? Cheers, RickO

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never seen errors like that before. Very different.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sure wish we could see the pieces out of the holders so we can actually see them.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Going against the tide I look at these as something (not sure what to call it) other than a 'Mint' error. I believe an 'error' happens during the coining action and not in the pre-coining production process. Just my 2 cents.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Sure wish we could see the pieces out of the holders so we can actually see them.

    I just yesterday got them back from NGC. If I had known I'd have taken pictures before sending in.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gonzer said:
    Going against the tide I look at these as something (not sure what to call it) other than a 'Mint' error. I believe an 'error' happens during the coining action and not in the pre-coining production process. Just my 2 cents.

    Virtually every error dealer sell blanks and planchets with clips, missing clad layers, laminations, etc. Are these considered damaged? Answer: Not by the dealers selling them. (And I'll add, not by me either). I'm just sayin'.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gonzer said:
    Going against the tide I look at these as something (not sure what to call it) other than a 'Mint' error. I believe an 'error' happens during the coining action and not in the pre-coining production process. Just my 2 cents.

    I might add, ALL planchet errors are pre-coin production. Or for that matter, so are ALL die errors.

  • gonzergonzer Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MWallace said:

    @gonzer said:
    Going against the tide I look at these as something (not sure what to call it) other than a 'Mint' error. I believe an 'error' happens during the coining action and not in the pre-coining production process. Just my 2 cents.

    I might add, ALL planchet errors are pre-coin production. Or for that matter, so are ALL die errors.

    The die errors slipped my mind. Mea culpa.

  • seanqseanq Posts: 8,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MWallace said:

    @gonzer said:
    Going against the tide I look at these as something (not sure what to call it) other than a 'Mint' error. I believe an 'error' happens during the coining action and not in the pre-coining production process. Just my 2 cents.

    I might add, ALL planchet errors are pre-coin production. Or for that matter, so are ALL die errors.

    I forget now who it was, but one error coin dealer / researcher used to use a PDS system for classifying errors - standing for Planchet, Die, and Strike. What is unusual about the OP's errors are that they never met a die and never got struck, but that doesn't mean the planchet isn't an error.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @seanq said:

    @MWallace said:

    @gonzer said:
    Going against the tide I look at these as something (not sure what to call it) other than a 'Mint' error. I believe an 'error' happens during the coining action and not in the pre-coining production process. Just my 2 cents.

    I might add, ALL planchet errors are pre-coin production. Or for that matter, so are ALL die errors.

    I forget now who it was, but one error coin dealer / researcher used to use a PDS system for classifying errors - standing for Planchet, Die, and Strike. What is unusual about the OP's errors are that they never met a die and never got struck, but that doesn't mean the planchet isn't an error.

    Sean Reynolds

    I favor the PDS system of definition.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    @seanq said:

    @MWallace said:

    @gonzer said:
    Going against the tide I look at these as something (not sure what to call it) other than a 'Mint' error. I believe an 'error' happens during the coining action and not in the pre-coining production process. Just my 2 cents.

    I might add, ALL planchet errors are pre-coin production. Or for that matter, so are ALL die errors.

    I forget now who it was, but one error coin dealer / researcher used to use a PDS system for classifying errors - standing for Planchet, Die, and Strike. What is unusual about the OP's errors are that they never met a die and never got struck, but that doesn't mean the planchet isn't an error.

    Sean Reynolds

    I favor the PDS system of definition.

    Here's some history on the P-D-S system. The P-D-S system has been around since at least the 1970's. At some point Alan Herbert (author on all things error coins) added a 4th classification. "O" for "Official Modification. Now known as the P-D-S-O system. One great example of an "O" is the 1848 CAL Quarter Eagle. While arguably not an "error", I think his intention was to include Mint made anomalies to the P-D-S system.

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021 11:19PM

    Interesting topic. I was just discussing the same error on my newly acquired 2021s Quarter. Do you guy's, if you don't mind, consider my coin a "Rim Burr" as well? Trying to determine. Thank you.

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @joeykoins said:
    Interesting topic. I was just discussing the same error on my newly acquired 2021s Quarter. Do you guy's, if you don't mind, consider my coin a "Rim Burr" as well? Trying to determine. Thank you.

    In the close up it looks like a pre-cud die crack.

  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you! ;)

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
  • joeykoinsjoeykoins Posts: 14,787 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021 2:10AM

    There's more on the same coin's reverse.

    @4:00 and @ 8:00. Not so dramatic though.

    "Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!

    --- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.

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