PWCC Vault offer

1957Braves

Did anyone else get an email with a Vault offer. If I’m reading it right, it says we can make up to three submission (of unlimited cards per submission) and it’s free for life? Is that right?

fuj

Correct. I learned about this offer early and I asked a PWCC rep multiple questions just to confirm my understanding.

The normal intake fee will be waived and the monthly insurance will be free of charge for as long as the item remains in their inventory. The only caveat is they will charge you 0.25% fulfillment fee if you choose to have the items sent back to you in the future.

tonylags

@1957Braves said:
Did anyone else get an email with a Vault offer. If I’m reading it right, it says we can make up to three submission (of unlimited cards per submission) and it’s free for life? Is that right?

I thought it meant 3 cards; I was like why bother; but if it's 3 submissions and unlimited cards, that's a different story. Can someone confirm? Are their any monthly/yearly fee's? If not, why would they do this?

1957Braves

I plan on calling in the morning (though the email said the special runs through the end of March) to verify as I also wondered why.

fuj

No fees whatsoever unless you sell the cards or have them sent back to you.

I was thinking about why they would do this and I came up with a couple of guesses:

One would be that this is their incentive for us to send in more cards and hopefully lock in future sales. I have cards that I will sell somewhere down the line but not necessarily anytime soon. I might have sold many of them myself, but with this offer, I might as well just send them in to PWCC to hold.

A second possibility is that maybe their vault has a ton of unused space available and it hasn't caught on as quickly as they had hoped? Maybe once people try out the vault for the first time, they will be willing to pay for the service on future cards?

Regardless, I think them having the cards in hand already will increase the likelihood of some sort of future revenue stream for them.

tonylags

@1957Braves said:
I plan on calling in the morning (though the email said the special runs through the end of March) to verify as I also wondered why.

i'll try to do same, can you post info when you get it

DotStore

when clicking the promotional link on their site, one of the bullet points for the special says:
Cards must be graded by PSA, BGS, BVG, SGC, or CGC. There is no limit on the number of cards per submission.

Ahmanfan

Is nobody concerned about the solvency of PWCC if they're holding big dollars of their cards long term? I sure would be.

miwlvrn

Yes, but what is the relative risk if you were to have for example a six-digit card that you planned to sell in the next couple/few years? Having an item of that value stored at home and also selling it yourself and trusting a monetary transaction of that amount to work out without issue also sounds like a big risk when compared to storing it somewhere where they carry a high insurance policy and would be the ones to oversee the eventual sale.

I don't have a PWCC vault and also have only sent a few items to them to auction on one occasion. Just posting some random thoughts on the "free" vault concept.

fergie23

Ahmanfan,
What exactly would be the solvency concern with PWCC? There vault is going to provide fixed, long term income to them basically in perpetuity. They just added their Vault ebay auction service and it appears to be wildly successful and their monthly auctions consistently have the best cards available on eBay. Longer term, the bigger auction houses look like they are increasing the frequency of their auctions so that will provide some competition but no one offers anything like the PWCC vault and I think it will be a difference maker for them for a long time.

Granted I have $2+ million in cards and unopened boxes with them so I am obviously biased at this point, but who wants to have millions and millions of dollars of cards sitting in their home? I looked at the options for offsite storage and the PWCC Vault was the best one and provided the most options.

Now, if PWCC changes their business model away from consignments and storage, then it might bear further scrutiny.

Robb

miwlvrn

Once your items are in a vault there, is there a fee/charge to have them scanned and listed with BIN/BO? Not talking about the final value commission fee; I mean fee for converting from just for personal storage vs. going to for-sale status.

Ahmanfan

@miwlvrn said:
Yes, but what is the relative risk if you were to have for example a six-digit card that you planned to sell in the next couple/few years? Having an item of that value stored at home and also selling it yourself and trusting a monetary transaction of that amount to work out without issue also sounds like a big risk when compared to storing it somewhere where they carry a high insurance policy and would be the ones to oversee the eventual sale.

I don't have a PWCC vault and also have only sent a few items to them to auction on one occasion. Just posting some random thoughts on the "free" vault concept.

Agreed, any storage option is a risk, including at home. 100%.

Ahmanfan

@fergie23 said:
Ahmanfan,
What exactly would be the solvency concern with PWCC? There vault is going to provide fixed, long term income to them basically in perpetuity. They just added their Vault ebay auction service and it appears to be wildly successful and their monthly auctions consistently have the best cards available on eBay. Longer term, the bigger auction houses look like they are increasing the frequency of their auctions so that will provide some competition but no one offers anything like the PWCC vault and I think it will be a difference maker for them for a long time.

Granted I have $2+ million in cards and unopened boxes with them so I am obviously biased at this point, but who wants to have millions and millions of dollars of cards sitting in their home? I looked at the options for offsite storage and the PWCC Vault was the best one and provided the most options.

Now, if PWCC changes their business model away from consignments and storage, then it might bear further scrutiny.

Robb

Hi Robb,

First off, congrats on having 2MM in collectibles. What a world we are living in.

It's also risky to have them at home, or anywhere else. That is what makes it so tough. If you cash out, where do you park the equity. In an all time high stock market? Also risky. In the bond market or CD's yielding 1% interest? No way.

In your shoes I'd probably leave them there as it seems the best choice amongst a litany of mediocre alternatives.
John

fergie23

No fee after the card is archived to list it as a BIN/BO. I have not done a flash sale through the vault yet so don't know what the fee structure for that is.

The cards are all scanned as part of the archival process. You typically get charged a one time fee for archiving the cards and then a monthly fee based on the insured value of the card.

The monthly fee-free deal they have is really good. If I had known something like this was coming, I would have waited to send in my cards.

The archival and 1st year storage fees are significantly higher than what I was paying for CollectInsure. The 2nd year and beyond storage fee looks like it will be comparable to what I paid CollectInsure. That said, I will end up ahead simply from the number of cards that got the PWCC A, E and S eye appeal designations and the premium that gives to the cards. I was also planning on selling some of my collection, so I have paid my fees using some of the proceeds from those sales. Personally, I like the flexibility of being able to list a card at any time for any BIN price I want simply by logging into their website.

Robb

miwlvrn

So looking at their fee structure, not including fees associated with sales of an item but instead just focusing on storing the items there, there are (1) Archival fees; (2) first year storage fees; and, (3) long term storage fees. It sounds like both the first year and long term storage fees are eliminated and offered free with the current promotion. The archival fee structure says $2 to $100 per card, depending on PWCC's appraisal upon intake, though I did not notice a value breakdown for how much archival fee per how much card value. Has there been confirmation as to whether or not the archival fees are also going to be free/zero for the March promo?

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@miwlvrn said:
So looking at their fee structure, not including fees associated with sales of an item but instead just focusing on storing the items there, there are (1) Archival fees; (2) first year storage fees; and, (3) long term storage fees. It sounds like both the first year and long term storage fees are eliminated and offered free with the current promotion. The archival fee structure says $2 to $100 per card, depending on PWCC's appraisal upon intake, though I did not notice a value breakdown for how much archival fee per how much card value. Has there been confirmation as to whether or not the archival fees are also going to be free/zero for the March promo?

zero all the time the card is in their possession.
Three submissions is three cards.. i believe.
i might send 3 cards
.025 of the value you give it ?
so if you have a 1/1 card and you post it at 25k then if you want it back you will have to pay .025 of 25k ?

miwlvrn

@lawyer05 said:

@miwlvrn said:
So looking at their fee structure, not including fees associated with sales of an item but instead just focusing on storing the items there, there are (1) Archival fees; (2) first year storage fees; and, (3) long term storage fees. It sounds like both the first year and long term storage fees are eliminated and offered free with the current promotion. The archival fee structure says $2 to $100 per card, depending on PWCC's appraisal upon intake, though I did not notice a value breakdown for how much archival fee per how much card value. Has there been confirmation as to whether or not the archival fees are also going to be free/zero for the March promo?

zero all the time the card is in their possession.
Three submissions is three cards.. i believe.
i might send 3 cards
.025 of the value you give it ?
so if you have a 1/1 card and you post it at 25k then if you want it back you will have to pay .025 of 25k ?

No, not three cards. Three separate shipments:

_Free Vault
Submissions!
Unlimited cards - through March 31st
Enter the promo code 3FREE when completing your submission to use the Vault for free.

Members may create 3 free Vault submissions. All items sent using promo code 3FREE will be 100% free. Forever.
Offer valid on new submissions only, postmarked before March 31st. This offer does not apply to items currently in the Vault.
Cards must be graded by PSA, BGS, BVG, SGC, or CGC. There is no limit on the number of cards per submission.
Average estimated card value must be over $50.
Open to new and existing members.
Submit early. Submissions are curated on a first-come, first-served basis.
No fulfillment charges on items sold through a PWCC Marketplace (a fulfillment charge of only 0.25% is applied otherwise)_

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

wow
no storage fees ever ?

@miwlvrn said:

@lawyer05 said:

@miwlvrn said:
So looking at their fee structure, not including fees associated with sales of an item but instead just focusing on storing the items there, there are (1) Archival fees; (2) first year storage fees; and, (3) long term storage fees. It sounds like both the first year and long term storage fees are eliminated and offered free with the current promotion. The archival fee structure says $2 to $100 per card, depending on PWCC's appraisal upon intake, though I did not notice a value breakdown for how much archival fee per how much card value. Has there been confirmation as to whether or not the archival fees are also going to be free/zero for the March promo?

zero all the time the card is in their possession.
Three submissions is three cards.. i believe.
i might send 3 cards
.025 of the value you give it ?
so if you have a 1/1 card and you post it at 25k then if you want it back you will have to pay .025 of 25k ?

No, not three cards. Three separate shipments:

_Free Vault
Submissions!
Unlimited cards - through March 31st
Enter the promo code 3FREE when completing your submission to use the Vault for free.

Members may create 3 free Vault submissions. All items sent using promo code 3FREE will be 100% free. Forever.
Offer valid on new submissions only, postmarked before March 31st. This offer does not apply to items currently in the Vault.
Cards must be graded by PSA, BGS, BVG, SGC, or CGC. There is no limit on the number of cards per submission.
Average estimated card value must be over $50.
Open to new and existing members.
Submit early. Submissions are curated on a first-come, first-served basis.
No fulfillment charges on items sold through a PWCC Marketplace (a fulfillment charge of only 0.25% is applied otherwise)_

mexpo75

I might be in the minority, but I started buying, selling, and collecting to be able to look at and smile at these great pieces of cardboard. Granted I want them to appreciate in value, but if that if that all these cool things are, than I would just rather buy stocks or mutual funds. I have great glass of bourbon, sit back and look at what you have!

emar

@mexpo75 said:
I might be in the minority, but I started buying, selling, and collecting to be able to look at and smile at these great pieces of cardboard. Granted I want them to appreciate in value, but if that if that all these cool things are, than I would just rather buy stocks or mutual funds. I have great glass of bourbon, sit back and look at what you have!

I'm with ya.
Cards are in a very secure place but accessible.
I pick out a decade, get settled on the recliner, breakout the LED light, and admire the lil beauties under the light.
I know it's weird, right?

craig44

oh man, this again.

does personal/business integrity mean nothing anymore? Seems the almighty dollar rules the day. everyone is free to make their own choices, but I like to do business with people of integrity.

grote15

@mexpo75 said:
I might be in the minority, but I started buying, selling, and collecting to be able to look at and smile at these great pieces of cardboard. Granted I want them to appreciate in value, but if that if that all these cool things are, than I would just rather buy stocks or mutual funds. I have great glass of bourbon, sit back and look at what you have!

I agree.

With craig44, also.

1959

Wasn't there some kind of trimmed or alterted cards in PSA holders being sold by PWCC scandal some time ago? What was the outcome of that? Or was there no outcome?

PNWcollector

@1959 said:
Wasn't there some kind of trimmed or alterted cards in PSA holders being sold by PWCC scandal some time ago? What was the outcome of that? Or was there no outcome?

It’s business as usual. PSA missing alterations and/or blatantly overlooking them, and PWCC selling the altered cards once they get slabbed.

I shake my head when people post their thousand dollar pick ups from PWCC. They just feed the machine. I’ll never give them a penny. I’ll get off my soapbox now.

billwaltonsbeard

@PNWcollector said:

@1959 said:
Wasn't there some kind of trimmed or alterted cards in PSA holders being sold by PWCC scandal some time ago? What was the outcome of that? Or was there no outcome?

It’s business as usual. PSA missing alterations and/or blatantly overlooking them, and PWCC selling the altered cards once they get slabbed.

How is PWCC supposed to know that the PSA-slabbed cards were dirty?

craig44

@billwaltonsbeard said:

@PNWcollector said:

@1959 said:
Wasn't there some kind of trimmed or alterted cards in PSA holders being sold by PWCC scandal some time ago? What was the outcome of that? Or was there no outcome?

It’s business as usual. PSA missing alterations and/or blatantly overlooking them, and PWCC selling the altered cards once they get slabbed.

How is PWCC supposed to know that the PSA-slabbed cards were dirty?

I definitely do not want to get into it, but there is TONS of information out there. It goes beyond PSA slabs as well.

billwaltonsbeard

I've researched the info.........a class action lawsuit doesn't make someone guilty. The assertions that there was collusion between grading companies, card doctors and auction houses is pure speculation.

I honestly don't care what people choose to believe. It's just kind of funny.

craig44

@billwaltonsbeard said:
I've researched the info.........a class action lawsuit doesn't make someone guilty. The assertions that there was collusion between grading companies, card doctors and auction houses is pure speculation.

I honestly don't care what people choose to believe. It's just kind of funny.

I think you will find that peoples cards are not as secure in the vault as PWCC and others would have you to believe.

did you see the DJ Skee fiasco a couple of weeks ago? they let this clown into the vault and handle other peoples cards, well over a million dollars of cards, as if they were his own. he then put the video up on Instagram with serial numbers and all showing. all of this so the vault and pwcc could get some social media influence.

If you think your cards are placed carefully in their own private area never to be disturbed until either sold or shipped, you can think again.

If this is the filmed behavior, imagine what is done when the camera is off? It is extremely unprofessional and amateurish to run a business that way. If I am holding an item for a friend, you better believe I will treat it better than my own things and no one else will have access to it.

craig44

https://instagram.com/tv/CLRhMOAn4tO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

going through million dollar collections with this little regard is unacceptable. can you imagine how lesser collections are treated off camera?

azvike

That is terrible...all I need to see...

emar

Unbelievable. Maybe slam them around a little harder

PNWcollector

@billwaltonsbeard said:
I've researched the info.........a class action lawsuit doesn't make someone guilty. The assertions that there was collusion between grading companies, card doctors and auction houses is pure speculation.

I honestly don't care what people choose to believe. It's just kind of funny.

You’re cute. Keep that head in the sand!

billwaltonsbeard

@PNWcollector said:

@billwaltonsbeard said:
I've researched the info.........a class action lawsuit doesn't make someone guilty. The assertions that there was collusion between grading companies, card doctors and auction houses is pure speculation.

I honestly don't care what people choose to believe. It's just kind of funny.

You’re cute. Keep that head in the sand!

Thanks. Almost as cute as believing conspiracy theories and making a fool of yourself on message boards.

DaveSpiwak

To my knowledge, there is basically no government regulation in the card industry, much less in the ‘card safekeeping industry’. I’m not necessarily for more government regulation per se, but with no oversight, there is huge risk to sending valuable assets to this company in my opinion. At the very least, strong due diligence should be exercised...but even at that, there’s likely very limited information you can get your hands on that’s been audited by a third party. Feels quite risky to me.

Batpig

Holy...not that I was planning on doing anything with them, but that’s insane. If those were my cards, I would be pissed.

GoDodgersFan

Someone should be fired. Totally unacceptable for a huge player in the hobby.

brad31

@craig44 said:
oh man, this again.

does personal/business integrity mean nothing anymore? Seems the almighty dollar rules the day. everyone is free to make their own choices, but I like to do business with people of integrity.

Agree - no longer do business with PWCC.

craig44

@billwaltonsbeard said:

@PNWcollector said:

@billwaltonsbeard said:
I've researched the info.........a class action lawsuit doesn't make someone guilty. The assertions that there was collusion between grading companies, card doctors and auction houses is pure speculation.

I honestly don't care what people choose to believe. It's just kind of funny.

You’re cute. Keep that head in the sand!

Thanks. Almost as cute as believing conspiracy theories and making a fool of yourself on message boards.

How comfortable would you feel having people rummage through your cards when you thought they were in a vault sealed in?? And then to record it and put it out for the world to see. sometimes you really have to question peoples intelligence

craig44

but arent they salt of the earth people

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

How comfortable would you feel having people rummage through your cards when you thought they were in a vault sealed in?? And then to record it and put it out for the world to see. sometimes you really have to question peoples intelligence

i know like wtf

Ahmanfan

The video is very cringe worthy. In addition to the complete disregard for the cards themselves, who's to say a couple cards go missing and you end up in a HE SAID SHE SAID situation with PWCC? I doubt that ends well for you as the consumer. This is beyond disturbing when they are entrusted to safekeep 6 to 7 figures of someone's assets. Unbelievable.

craig44

^^^^this

even bank safe deposit boxes are not totally safe. every year boxes are found to be empty, stolen or the contents damaged by fire/weather.

I did a little digging about bank deposit boxes and the largest banks in the country consider them a legacy product and many do not rent them out anymore. they do not make very much money for the bank and take up a lot of space. most newly constructed branches do not even construct safe deposit vaults. and by the way, if the bank takes water/flood damage, fire damage or theft, they are not liable for anything stored in those boxes. I have got to think that within 10-15 years it will be pretty difficult to find a safe deposit box to rent

I really believe the best/safest option is to purchase a large "fireproof" firearm safe. then build a small room around said safe lined with gypsum board to further help with the fire rating. purchase an exterior metal door to access the "safe" room and mount small blink security cameras on both the inside and outside of the safe room. those cameras record to the cloud and will also alert you to changes in temperature.

fergie23

If I saw any of my cards in that video or similar video (especially with how they were handled), I would definitely quit using their service. That said, if you happen to have a hugely valuable collection what good options are there? I live in a normal house, my card collection is 3-4 times the value of my house due to the massive ramp up in card values from the COVID boom. While I had insurance on my collection I didn't have any peace of mind with respect to my cards walking out the door (cleaning folks, service folks, burglary, family "friends", etc), or being destroyed in a fire or other natural disaster. I don't have any similar worries with the PWCC vault. It is definitely different not having my cards on hand but it is not like I looked at them all the time anyway. In the future, when the kids are grown and I am no longer working, I could change my mind but for now I am happy with my decision. Definitely not for everyone but for me it was the best option available.

Robb

billwaltonsbeard

@craig44 said:
^^^^this

even bank safe deposit boxes are not totally safe. every year boxes are found to be empty, stolen or the contents damaged by fire/weather.

I did a little digging about bank deposit boxes and the largest banks in the country consider them a legacy product and many do not rent them out anymore. they do not make very much money for the bank and take up a lot of space. most newly constructed branches do not even construct safe deposit vaults. and by the way, if the bank takes water/flood damage, fire damage or theft, they are not liable for anything stored in those boxes. I have got to think that within 10-15 years it will be pretty difficult to find a safe deposit box to rent

I really believe the best/safest option is to purchase a large "fireproof" firearm safe. then build a small room around said safe lined with gypsum board to further help with the fire rating. purchase an exterior metal door to access the "safe" room and mount small blink security cameras on both the inside and outside of the safe room. those cameras record to the cloud and will also alert you to changes in temperature.

Wow.............you forgot the tin foil hat

dontippet

I cannot believe that video. I don't handle any of my PSA cards that way, even the $10 ones. For them to flop around cards that are worth six figures each is incredible. And the cases aren't even in some type of bag. I really can't believe this. There is no way I would use that service after seeing that video. There is no excuse for that whatsoever.

erikthredd

@craig44 said:
https://instagram.com/tv/CLRhMOAn4tO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

going through million dollar collections with this little regard is unacceptable. can you imagine how lesser collections are treated off camera?

The absolute irony from his quote at the 1:11 mark when he says “Jesus bro,Take it easy on me” as he’s slamming down slabs.

Edit: I’m pretty sure there was another video that showed someone doing the same to some stacks that were on the table that included a Jordan Red PMG,Kobe Chrome Refractor,early Babe Ruth card plus other higher end stuff than wash at was in that box in the video.

billwaltonsbeard

I'm currently chatting with a PWCC employee regarding the video............stand by

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

@billwaltonsbeard said:
I'm currently chatting with a PWCC employee regarding the video............stand by

those are your cards ?

LarkinCollector

@billwaltonsbeard said:
I'm currently chatting with a PWCC employee regarding the video............stand by

billwaltonsbeard

@lawyer05 said:

@billwaltonsbeard said:
I'm currently chatting with a PWCC employee regarding the video............stand by

those are your cards ?

No......they are not my cards.

Panama Mutiny (Formerly lawyer05)

now we know why some cards get chipped ... my 30 dollar commons have plastic sleeves....!!! for crying out loud... that video was a horror movie