Tom Brady was also passing in the weather elements while Brees in the dome. Common sense dictates that passing through the wind and poor weather is gong to be harder than in a dome, even if any stat hides that fact.
However, the actual results back it up too: In a dome Brees averaged 8.08 yards per attempt. Outdoors it was only 7.13. He has almost equal games indoors vs outdoors, so those numbers are pretty valid.
You do realize I'm not actually making a case for Brees over Brady, right?
If you actually believed the argument you're making, you'd be hyping Drew Brees instead.
your joking, right?
Drew has been a nice player, but he is no tommy. How many MVPs does little drew have again...
NICE player?
Instead of just assuming Brady is some kind of godlike deity, why don't you actually look at Brees' numbers?
Almost all are equal to or better than Tom's. Higher completion %, led the league 6 times to Brady's once. Higher QB "Rate" as well, with Drew having a 100 or better rate eight of the last ten years to Tom's five.
The only number Brady has a clear advantage in is int %.
Then take a look at the Defense that has been there for Drew HORRIBLE!
FOUR top 10 Defenses in fifteen years.
The dome may have a hand in the defense having a harder time controlling the passing game, just like the dome helped the offense look better, when compared to playing in the elements(especially in NE).
@Tabe said:
Lebron has been one of the top 3 players in his league since his second season - a run of 17 straight seasons. He was a great player from the second he stepped foot in the league and he's still a great player 18 years later. Tom can't make that claim. In fact, it took Brady time to get there.
Brady's got more championships but Lebron's had the better career.
which player has won more awards in their league? which player has been a league statistical leader more times?
hint, its tommy
If you actually believed the argument you're making, you'd be hyping Drew Brees instead.
You kinda ruined it here. I was waiting to see how deep of a hole would be dug.
Tom Brady was also passing in the weather elements while Brees in the dome. Common sense dictates that passing through the wind and poor weather is gong to be harder than in a dome, even if any stat hides that fact.
However, the actual results back it up too: In a dome Brees averaged 8.08 yards per attempt. Outdoors it was only 7.13. He has almost equal games indoors vs outdoors, so those numbers are pretty valid.
You do realize I'm not actually making a case for Brees over Brady, right?
Yes. My post was in regard only to the black ink test between the two.
If you actually believed the argument you're making, you'd be hyping Drew Brees instead.
your joking, right?
Drew has been a nice player, but he is no tommy. How many MVPs does little drew have again...
NICE player?
Instead of just assuming Brady is some kind of godlike deity, why don't you actually look at Brees' numbers?
Almost all are equal to or better than Tom's. Higher completion %, led the league 6 times to Brady's once. Higher QB "Rate" as well, with Drew having a 100 or better rate eight of the last ten years to Tom's five.
The only number Brady has a clear advantage in is int %.
Then take a look at the Defense that has been there for Drew HORRIBLE!
FOUR top 10 Defenses in fifteen years.
Dome Quarterback. I have checked the stats, and I believe there is an 8 or so drop in QB rating when Drew plays outside.
Yes. Even if the stats didn't back it up, since especially in the NFL where stats can easily be muddled due to the difference each team has in the schedule and/or type of offense, it is common sense that throwing passes through the wind and elements is harder than doing so in the dome. The same holds true for running.
If you actually believed the argument you're making, you'd be hyping Drew Brees instead.
your joking, right?
Drew has been a nice player, but he is no tommy. How many MVPs does little drew have again...
NICE player?
Instead of just assuming Brady is some kind of godlike deity, why don't you actually look at Brees' numbers?
Almost all are equal to or better than Tom's. Higher completion %, led the league 6 times to Brady's once. Higher QB "Rate" as well, with Drew having a 100 or better rate eight of the last ten years to Tom's five.
The only number Brady has a clear advantage in is int %.
Then take a look at the Defense that has been there for Drew HORRIBLE!
FOUR top 10 Defenses in fifteen years.
there is a reason for Brees higher completion %. he throws more short passes. his air yards/att and ay/c are both quite a bit lower than toms. easier to complete passes that are not downfield.
also, brees has played over half of his career indoors. there is a 12 point bump in his passer rating indoors, as well as a 1 yard bump to his yards per attempt indoors
tom has played 274 games outdoors and only 17 domed games. he gets a 15 point increase in passer rating in dome games and his Y/A is 1.5 yards better indoors.
Brady would have blown Brees away in just about every statistic imaginable had he been able to play in as many indoor games as Drew
i really hate to inject myself into this brady james make-out session, but d-man texted me and told me to tell banzai that he saw what you did there and it's Breeze in a brees tyvm
If you actually believed the argument you're making, you'd be hyping Drew Brees instead.
your joking, right?
Drew has been a nice player, but he is no tommy. How many MVPs does little drew have again...
NICE player?
Instead of just assuming Brady is some kind of godlike deity, why don't you actually look at Brees' numbers?
Almost all are equal to or better than Tom's. Higher completion %, led the league 6 times to Brady's once. Higher QB "Rate" as well, with Drew having a 100 or better rate eight of the last ten years to Tom's five.
The only number Brady has a clear advantage in is int %.
Then take a look at the Defense that has been there for Drew HORRIBLE!
FOUR top 10 Defenses in fifteen years.
Dome Quarterback. I have checked the stats, and I believe there is an 8 or so drop in QB rating when Drew plays outside.
LOL That is certainly a bigger factor than having a good defense year after year as opposed to having a HORRIBLE defense.
Yes, Brees is better in a dome, he doesn't actually get to choose where the games are played.
Do you even look at the numbers? Or only the ones that you like?
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
If you actually believed the argument you're making, you'd be hyping Drew Brees instead.
your joking, right?
Drew has been a nice player, but he is no tommy. How many MVPs does little drew have again...
NICE player?
Instead of just assuming Brady is some kind of godlike deity, why don't you actually look at Brees' numbers?
Almost all are equal to or better than Tom's. Higher completion %, led the league 6 times to Brady's once. Higher QB "Rate" as well, with Drew having a 100 or better rate eight of the last ten years to Tom's five.
The only number Brady has a clear advantage in is int %.
Then take a look at the Defense that has been there for Drew HORRIBLE!
FOUR top 10 Defenses in fifteen years.
Dome Quarterback. I have checked the stats, and I believe there is an 8 or so drop in QB rating when Drew plays outside.
LOL That is certainly a bigger factor than having a good defense year after year as opposed to having a HORRIBLE defense.
Yes, Brees is better in a dome, he doesn't actually get to choose where the games are played.
Do you even look at the numbers? Or only the ones that you like?
what does New Orleans Defense have to do with Brees 12 point QB rating increase when he plays in a dome?
@Brick said:
If you rely on who had the best team results it is Brady by a small margin. If you are looking for the best athlete it is LBJ by a wide margin.
I am comparing who was better in comparison to their own peers in an attempt to ascertain who was the GOAT. It is nearly impossible to put players from 2 different sports head to head as they will obviously have different athletic talents.
I am not discussing who is more athletic ie. who runs faster, jumps higher or can lift more weights. I am talking about who was more dominant at their sport
what does New Orleans Defense have to do with Brees 12 point QB rating increase when he plays in a dome?
Both are factors contributing to the performance of a QB.
Drew may or may not have performed better those days in an outdoor game. You're guessing. You see a stat that works for you and it means a lot, if there's one that makes your guy look worse it's meaningless.
Brady certainly was helped more by not having to score as many point to win games. Year after year. The result is his team makes the playoffs and wins more championships, this doesn't prove he is the better QB, just that he played with better team mates.
Pretty basic logic.
If you actually look at the numbers with an open mind, there's very little difference between the two QB's numbers. Brees completes a higher % of passes and Brady throws a few less INTs. Brees still ends up with a slight advantage in QB Rate.
The only way Brady "wins" is if you bring team accomplishments into the argument, then you see a GIGANTIC advantage with Tom's teams. Virtually every year his defense gives him a top 10 unit, while Drew has to make up for some truly abysmal defenses, pretty much every year.
Brady's defense has been below the top 10 three times during his time with N.E. with a 15th and two 17th ranked units the worst he has had to work with.
Brees' defenses have been 20th or worse seven times and only 4 times in the top 10.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
what does New Orleans Defense have to do with Brees 12 point QB rating increase when he plays in a dome?
Both are factors contributing to the performance of a QB.
Drew may or may not have performed better those days in an outdoor game. You're guessing. You see a stat that works for you and it means a lot, if there's one that makes your guy look worse it's meaningless.
Brady certainly was helped more by not having to score as many point to win games. Year after year. The result is his team makes the playoffs and wins more championships, this doesn't prove he is the better QB, just that he played with better team mates.
Pretty basic logic.
If you actually look at the numbers with an open mind, there's very little difference between the two QB's numbers. Brees completes a higher % of passes and Brady throws a few less INTs. Brees still ends up with a slight advantage in QB Rate.
The only way Brady "wins" is if you bring team accomplishments into the argument, then you see a GIGANTIC advantage with Tom's teams. Virtually every year his defense gives him a top 10 unit, while Drew has to make up for some truly abysmal defenses, pretty much every year.
Brady's defense has been below the top 10 three times during his time with N.E. with a 15th and two 17th ranked units the worst he has had to work with.
Brees' defenses have been 20th or worse seven times and only 4 times in the top 10.
what are you talking about "you see a stat that works for you"? stats don't work for anyone, they are simply the record. the record says Brees had a distinct advantage playing in a dome.
period.
the stat doesn't work for me, it just is. as far as bradys teams having better defenses helping him because he doesn't have to score as much????? listen to yourself for a minute. it would hinder bradys stats if he didn't have to score as much and the team ran the ball more because they didn't have to score. I am seriously beginning to wonder if you ever watched the games? I have seen all but 2 or 3 of bradys games. i never remember them putting the brakes on unless it was the 4th quarter and were ahead significantly. how does that help bradys stats? by handing the ball off while drew was throwing 40 times a game?
of course brees completed a high percentage of passes. many of those were dump offs or screens. brady even in his 43rd year completed the most 20 plus air yard passes in the league. deep balls clearly have a better chance of falling incomplete.
Yes, if your defense gives up fewer points you don't have to score as much to defeat the other team. Therefore it's easier to win more games. Brady's only advantage over Brees is that he won more games.
Is this really too complicated for you?
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
Yes, if your defense gives up fewer points you don't have to score as much to defeat the other team. Therefore it's easier to win more games. Brady's only advantage over Brees is that he won more games.
Is this really too complicated for you?
ok, I see where you are coming from.
no, brees was in no way a better QB. i have already stated the dome advantage. it is significant. very significant. I don't want to spend the time retyping all of that, you can go back and reread it above. just know it is significant and a main reason Brees will never be considered as good as tom.
the reason brees has such a high completion % is because of all the dump offs and screens. Brees is not a great deep ball thrower. his air yards are not good.
anecdotally, have you ever heard a person who knows football rank Brees higher than Brady? I would think you would need to dig quite deep to find one.
of course brees completed a high percentage of passes. many of those were dump offs or screens. brady even in his 43rd year completed the most 20 plus air yard passes in the league. deep balls clearly have a better chance of falling incomplete.
They also have a better chance of being intercepted and the fact that Brady could have such an elite interception rate while doing that is even all the more amazing.
The reason why Brees's stats were helped(passing in the dome) is the same reason why the Saint's defense is ranked lower than they really are(defending passes in the dome).
The fact that Brady still has an elite canon at age 43 is prompting me to add Nolan Ryan to the slash line.
Tom Brady is the Mickey Mantle/Hank Aaron/Gordie Howe/Nolan Ryan of Quarterbacks.
no, brees was in no way a better QB. i have already stated the dome advantage. it is significant. very significant. >
Then you simply haven't looked at the regular season numbers. Brees has numbers as good or better in several categories. Your "dome factor" argument is really very slight, but it supports your position, so now it's "very significant"
the reason brees has such a high completion % is because of all the dump offs and screens. Brees is not a great deep ball thrower. his air yards are not good.
If you look at Yards Gained Per Pass Attempt (Y/A) you will see that Brees is higher. If he's gaining more yard by dumping the ball off he's DEFINITELY a better QB than the guy throwing downfield and averaging fewer yards per completion.
Additionally, your "dump off" argument is factored in in the QB Rate stat, Brees' is again, a bit higher.
The one factor that stands out is the defenses they had to work with.
If you can't see the GIGANTIC disparity, it's because you refuse to acknowledge the facts.
In all other facets of the game they are pretty close.
One reason for Brees throwing more interceptions is he is much more often losing the game (because of his bad defense) and has to throw more passes that have a higher chance of being intercepted. I think that "a person who knows football" will agree that most interceptions occur when a team is behind and has to throw the ball.
The "dome factor" certainly doesn't account for the fact that NE was NEVER worse than 17th in points allowed and NO was 20th-30th about 1/2 the time.
That's why NO was going 7-9 so often while NE was winning the division.
You say that " have you ever heard a person who knows football rank Brees higher than Brady? I would think you would need to dig quite deep to find one."
If you remove the N.E. fans from the equation, you might be surprised.
Until the last post, you didn't even realize where I was coming from in reference to the defense having a factor in winning football games, because you guys just lose your minds when anyone dares to say Brees (or Manning, Marino, Favre, etc) might have been anywhere near as good as the "god" of QB's.
I'm not a Brees fan, I'm not a Brady hater. In fact I dislike Brees and the Saints quite a bit more than the Patriots. I can't stand "Omaha" Manning, but he's right there with the other two.
You simply have made up your mind and refuse to consider any other answer.
Finally, I'll repeat that I would give Brady my GOAT vote, but not by much, he's just not THAT much better.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
One reason for Brees throwing more interceptions is he is much more often losing the game (because of his bad defense) and has to throw more passes that have a higher chance of being intercepted. I think that "a person who knows football" will agree that most interceptions occur when a team is behind and has to throw the ball.
is that really true that he is losing much more often? If so, and it results in more interceptions, it also would result in more passing yds vs prevent or soft type defenses that are simply not looking to give up the home run ball. That would in effect increase his rating stats tremendously...if that fact is true that they are losing "much more often."
The Saints have always had a pretty good record. I don't think they are in fact in those situations that often that you are alluding to....but if they are, then he is getting a lot of padded passing stats then too.
And the Saints defense is ranked lower because they have to defend against passing in the dome, which is harder than outside. So are they really as bad as that ranking says? Kind of like pitching in Colorado.
@JoeBanzai said:
NE won their division 17 times with Brady in 19 years, missed the playoffs once.
NO won 7 division titles in 15 years with Brees, missed the playoffs 6 times. With SD and another bad defense he made the playoffs 1 time in 4 years.
Yes, losing much more often, yes probably gave him some extra yards per game.
In 2004 without a dome Brees was a lot better than Brady, so maybe it wasn't the dome.
Since 2009 the Saints defense gave up 246 passing touchdowns at home and only 188 on the road. Keep in mind that typically teams are usually better at home than on the road.
It is easier to pass there, hence way Brees has such good passing numbers and why their defense is 'ranked' so 'low' each year.
Rushing touchdowns is similar but not to the same degree.
Their defenses are not as bad as their rankings make them appear to be. The dome is giving them a lower ranking like it gives Brees a higher ranking. Kind of like playing baseball in Coors field.
Joe, we are so far apart on this topic I think I will just agree to disagree with you on this one. I really think we are talking past each other at this point. I am a drew brees fan, and am a fan of many other QBs, including my childhood hero Dan Marino. I also don't believe any of those guys, great as they were, are as good as tom.
@JoeBanzai said:
NE won their division 17 times with Brady in 19 years, missed the playoffs once.
NO won 7 division titles in 15 years with Brees, missed the playoffs 6 times. With SD and another bad defense he made the playoffs 1 time in 4 years.
Yes, losing much more often, yes probably gave him some extra yards per game.
In 2004 without a dome Brees was a lot better than Brady, so maybe it wasn't the dome.
Why only look at one year in 2004?
In five years with San Diego Brees had an 84.9 QB rating. The majority of that came in one season...the one year you pointed out that they made the playoffs. They didn't make it the other years because Brees stunk, not because of the defense.
With New Orleans he had a 101.5 QB rating.
Since 2009 the Saints defense gave up 246 passing touchdowns at home and only 188 on the road. Keep in mind that typically teams are usually better at home than on the road. That is a large difference.
It is easier to pass in the New Orleans dome, hence way Brees has such good passing numbers and why their defense is 'ranked' so 'low' each year. The defense was not bad at all.
Rushing touchdowns is similar but not to the same degree.
Their defenses are not as bad as their rankings make them appear to be. The dome is giving them a lower ranking like it gives Brees a higher ranking. Kind of like playing baseball in Coors field.
Their defenses are not as bad as their rankings make them appear to be. The dome is giving them a lower ranking like it gives Brees a higher ranking. Kind of like playing baseball in Coors field.
That's funny!
Let's just agree to disagree.
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Comments
You do realize I'm not actually making a case for Brees over Brady, right?
The dome may have a hand in the defense having a harder time controlling the passing game, just like the dome helped the offense look better, when compared to playing in the elements(especially in NE).
FIFY
You kinda ruined it here. I was waiting to see how deep of a hole would be dug.
Yes. My post was in regard only to the black ink test between the two.
Yes. Even if the stats didn't back it up, since especially in the NFL where stats can easily be muddled due to the difference each team has in the schedule and/or type of offense, it is common sense that throwing passes through the wind and elements is harder than doing so in the dome. The same holds true for running.
there is a reason for Brees higher completion %. he throws more short passes. his air yards/att and ay/c are both quite a bit lower than toms. easier to complete passes that are not downfield.
also, brees has played over half of his career indoors. there is a 12 point bump in his passer rating indoors, as well as a 1 yard bump to his yards per attempt indoors
tom has played 274 games outdoors and only 17 domed games. he gets a 15 point increase in passer rating in dome games and his Y/A is 1.5 yards better indoors.
Brady would have blown Brees away in just about every statistic imaginable had he been able to play in as many indoor games as Drew
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
We're not talking hypotheticals though, just what actually happened.
i really hate to inject myself into this brady james make-out session, but d-man texted me and told me to tell banzai that he saw what you did there and it's Breeze in a brees tyvm
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
LOL That is certainly a bigger factor than having a good defense year after year as opposed to having a HORRIBLE defense.
Yes, Brees is better in a dome, he doesn't actually get to choose where the games are played.
Do you even look at the numbers? Or only the ones that you like?
If you rely on who had the best team results it is Brady by a small margin. If you are looking for the best athlete it is LBJ by a wide margin.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
what does New Orleans Defense have to do with Brees 12 point QB rating increase when he plays in a dome?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I am comparing who was better in comparison to their own peers in an attempt to ascertain who was the GOAT. It is nearly impossible to put players from 2 different sports head to head as they will obviously have different athletic talents.
I am not discussing who is more athletic ie. who runs faster, jumps higher or can lift more weights. I am talking about who was more dominant at their sport
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Both are factors contributing to the performance of a QB.
Drew may or may not have performed better those days in an outdoor game. You're guessing. You see a stat that works for you and it means a lot, if there's one that makes your guy look worse it's meaningless.
Brady certainly was helped more by not having to score as many point to win games. Year after year. The result is his team makes the playoffs and wins more championships, this doesn't prove he is the better QB, just that he played with better team mates.
Pretty basic logic.
If you actually look at the numbers with an open mind, there's very little difference between the two QB's numbers. Brees completes a higher % of passes and Brady throws a few less INTs. Brees still ends up with a slight advantage in QB Rate.
The only way Brady "wins" is if you bring team accomplishments into the argument, then you see a GIGANTIC advantage with Tom's teams. Virtually every year his defense gives him a top 10 unit, while Drew has to make up for some truly abysmal defenses, pretty much every year.
Brady's defense has been below the top 10 three times during his time with N.E. with a 15th and two 17th ranked units the worst he has had to work with.
Brees' defenses have been 20th or worse seven times and only 4 times in the top 10.
what are you talking about "you see a stat that works for you"? stats don't work for anyone, they are simply the record. the record says Brees had a distinct advantage playing in a dome.
period.
the stat doesn't work for me, it just is. as far as bradys teams having better defenses helping him because he doesn't have to score as much????? listen to yourself for a minute. it would hinder bradys stats if he didn't have to score as much and the team ran the ball more because they didn't have to score. I am seriously beginning to wonder if you ever watched the games? I have seen all but 2 or 3 of bradys games. i never remember them putting the brakes on unless it was the 4th quarter and were ahead significantly. how does that help bradys stats? by handing the ball off while drew was throwing 40 times a game?
of course brees completed a high percentage of passes. many of those were dump offs or screens. brady even in his 43rd year completed the most 20 plus air yard passes in the league. deep balls clearly have a better chance of falling incomplete.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes, if your defense gives up fewer points you don't have to score as much to defeat the other team. Therefore it's easier to win more games. Brady's only advantage over Brees is that he won more games.
Is this really too complicated for you?
ok, I see where you are coming from.
no, brees was in no way a better QB. i have already stated the dome advantage. it is significant. very significant. I don't want to spend the time retyping all of that, you can go back and reread it above. just know it is significant and a main reason Brees will never be considered as good as tom.
the reason brees has such a high completion % is because of all the dump offs and screens. Brees is not a great deep ball thrower. his air yards are not good.
anecdotally, have you ever heard a person who knows football rank Brees higher than Brady? I would think you would need to dig quite deep to find one.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
They also have a better chance of being intercepted and the fact that Brady could have such an elite interception rate while doing that is even all the more amazing.
The reason why Brees's stats were helped(passing in the dome) is the same reason why the Saint's defense is ranked lower than they really are(defending passes in the dome).
The fact that Brady still has an elite canon at age 43 is prompting me to add Nolan Ryan to the slash line.
Tom Brady is the Mickey Mantle/Hank Aaron/Gordie Howe/Nolan Ryan of Quarterbacks.
Then you simply haven't looked at the regular season numbers. Brees has numbers as good or better in several categories. Your "dome factor" argument is really very slight, but it supports your position, so now it's "very significant"
If you look at Yards Gained Per Pass Attempt (Y/A) you will see that Brees is higher. If he's gaining more yard by dumping the ball off he's DEFINITELY a better QB than the guy throwing downfield and averaging fewer yards per completion.
Additionally, your "dump off" argument is factored in in the QB Rate stat, Brees' is again, a bit higher.
The one factor that stands out is the defenses they had to work with.
If you can't see the GIGANTIC disparity, it's because you refuse to acknowledge the facts.
In all other facets of the game they are pretty close.
One reason for Brees throwing more interceptions is he is much more often losing the game (because of his bad defense) and has to throw more passes that have a higher chance of being intercepted. I think that "a person who knows football" will agree that most interceptions occur when a team is behind and has to throw the ball.
The "dome factor" certainly doesn't account for the fact that NE was NEVER worse than 17th in points allowed and NO was 20th-30th about 1/2 the time.
That's why NO was going 7-9 so often while NE was winning the division.
You say that " have you ever heard a person who knows football rank Brees higher than Brady? I would think you would need to dig quite deep to find one."
If you remove the N.E. fans from the equation, you might be surprised.
Until the last post, you didn't even realize where I was coming from in reference to the defense having a factor in winning football games, because you guys just lose your minds when anyone dares to say Brees (or Manning, Marino, Favre, etc) might have been anywhere near as good as the "god" of QB's.
I'm not a Brees fan, I'm not a Brady hater. In fact I dislike Brees and the Saints quite a bit more than the Patriots. I can't stand "Omaha" Manning, but he's right there with the other two.
You simply have made up your mind and refuse to consider any other answer.
Finally, I'll repeat that I would give Brady my GOAT vote, but not by much, he's just not THAT much better.
is that really true that he is losing much more often? If so, and it results in more interceptions, it also would result in more passing yds vs prevent or soft type defenses that are simply not looking to give up the home run ball. That would in effect increase his rating stats tremendously...if that fact is true that they are losing "much more often."
The Saints have always had a pretty good record. I don't think they are in fact in those situations that often that you are alluding to....but if they are, then he is getting a lot of padded passing stats then too.
And the Saints defense is ranked lower because they have to defend against passing in the dome, which is harder than outside. So are they really as bad as that ranking says? Kind of like pitching in Colorado.
NE won their division 17 times with Brady in 19 years, missed the playoffs once.
NO won 7 division titles in 15 years with Brees, missed the playoffs 6 times. With SD and another bad defense he made the playoffs 1 time in 4 years.
Yes, losing much more often, yes probably gave him some extra yards per game.
In 2004 without a dome Brees was a lot better than Brady, so maybe it wasn't the dome.
This thread has gone so far of the rails the OP should rename it "Drew v. TB"
Since 2009 the Saints defense gave up 246 passing touchdowns at home and only 188 on the road. Keep in mind that typically teams are usually better at home than on the road.
It is easier to pass there, hence way Brees has such good passing numbers and why their defense is 'ranked' so 'low' each year.
Rushing touchdowns is similar but not to the same degree.
Their defenses are not as bad as their rankings make them appear to be. The dome is giving them a lower ranking like it gives Brees a higher ranking. Kind of like playing baseball in Coors field.
Joe, we are so far apart on this topic I think I will just agree to disagree with you on this one. I really think we are talking past each other at this point. I am a drew brees fan, and am a fan of many other QBs, including my childhood hero Dan Marino. I also don't believe any of those guys, great as they were, are as good as tom.
Have a great day Joe!!!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Why only look at one year in 2004?
In five years with San Diego Brees had an 84.9 QB rating. The majority of that came in one season...the one year you pointed out that they made the playoffs. They didn't make it the other years because Brees stunk, not because of the defense.
With New Orleans he had a 101.5 QB rating.
Since 2009 the Saints defense gave up 246 passing touchdowns at home and only 188 on the road. Keep in mind that typically teams are usually better at home than on the road. That is a large difference.
It is easier to pass in the New Orleans dome, hence way Brees has such good passing numbers and why their defense is 'ranked' so 'low' each year. The defense was not bad at all.
Rushing touchdowns is similar but not to the same degree.
Their defenses are not as bad as their rankings make them appear to be. The dome is giving them a lower ranking like it gives Brees a higher ranking. Kind of like playing baseball in Coors field.
That's funny!
Let's just agree to disagree.