Doyle Brunson - A fascinating man
doubledragon
Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ok, don't pretend you didn't know this thread was going to be started. A certain forum member we'll call Mr. k from Philly, brought up Doyle Brunson, a legendary poker player, who is quite fascinating. I've always been fascinated by the game of poker, and the people that play it. I mean, they sit at a table and risk their own money on cards. You can either walk away with a lot of money, or walk away broke. It's a fascinating profession. Every year in Las Vegas I believe, they hold a poker tournament called "The World Series of Poker" and it's broadcasted on ESPN I think. I've watched it before, and it is really entertaining. There's huge pots of money, and you try and read your opponents mind to see if he's bluffing or to see what kind of hand he or she might have. A fascinating thing to watch. This thread is dedicated to the game of poker.
Comments
Ok, we'll start off by looking at Doyle Brunson, also known as "the godfather of poker ". Did you know, he wrote a book on poker called "Super System", which details his experiences playing poker.
Doyle Brunson has win the World Series of Poker 10 times, which is tied for the most WSOP titles of all time. Here he is in the 1970s after winning it all. He took home $340,000, which is small compared to todays multi million dollar prizes from the WSOP.
When you win the WSOP, you take home millions.
You also get a very nice bracelet from winning the WSOP, it's there version of a Vince Lombardi trophy.
Oh mama!
Part mental, part stamina, part math, part pot control, part money management which are are part of the skill of the game. And then there is Lady Luck. You generally don't win without skill and some luck. There are times the deck just hits you right between the eyes and it's a beautiful thing. There are times you flat out out play your opponent. Then there are times the deck will just flat out destroy you. You can flat out play a hand perfectly but if someone hits a 1 or 2 outer on the river the game becomes cruel.
You may forget some of your better hands but you never forget your worst bad beats.
My son and I both have near total recall. He often calls me after a game to replay hands. He's more aggressive then me. I'm more of a trapper. It's great to compare notes. It's great to compare hand theory. He keeps a book on opponents he plays both live and online. It's a lot of work. His pot odds skills are off the chart. At the end of the day you run hot and you run cold. Managing both is where you separate the men from the boys.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Yes, it's very fascinating, it's a very psychological game and you have to try and read people. I've seen guys that have absolutely nothing and they manage to outsmart their opponents.
I'm getting a deck of cards and I'm going to teach my wife how to play. I'm going to take her to the cleaners for hundreds!
That's Joe Cada. He's from outside of Detroit. My son plays in the same circle as him. Nice guy. I think that was from 10 or so years ago.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I can't believe how much money is in that picture. That is unbelievable, that is bigtime poker !
Phil Ivey is another player that has won 10 WSOP titles. He's a poker legend, and I always enjoy watching him play.
This guy is the best at figuring out what your hole cards are.
He's unreal.
I bought and read his book.
Cost $100 at the time, and it sold like hot cakes.
>
15-2, 15-4 and a pair is 6.
Just to clarify, Brunson hasn't won "THE" World Series of Poker main event that everyone knows about, ten times. He may have won ten various WSOP events, in which there are a number of events now such as Omaha, etc.
That being said, ten bracelets is still darn good.
I read some months ago that Brunson stated he was retiring from poker for various family health reasons.
Actually, i think the poker GOAT is Chip Reese.
There isn't much Youtube video on him, but from what i've seen, he is a frighteningly good poker player.
Sadly he passed at 56 years old a number of years ago.
"Stuart Errol Ungar (September 8, 1953 – November 22, 1998) was an American professional poker, blackjack, and gin rummy player, widely regarded to have been the greatest Texas hold 'em and gin player of all time. He is one of two people in poker history to have won the World Series of Poker Main Event three times."
Died of a drug overdose at45.
Doug Polk just kicked his butt for 1.2 million over 25k hands.
Negreanu is an excellent poker player, but from what i've seen, he has a bad habit of not being able to lay down good hands that are losing hands. I don't rate Negreanu in the highest of tiers such as Phil Ivey, etc.
If Negreanu was sitting at a poker table with the best players in the world, they would consider him to be a fish.
Stu Ungar is the correct choice for GOAT at the table, fascinating, troubled life though.
LOL
One of the greatest players ever. Calling him a fish is one of the stupidest things I've seen on the internet.
"Top 10 Richest Poker Players
•Justin Bonomo. ...
•Daniel Negreanu. ...
•Bryn Kenney. ...
•Doyle Brunson. ...
•Chris Ferguson. ...
•Sam Farha.
•Phil Ivey.
•Dan Bilzerian
A fish. LMAO
You bring up he lost one time???LMAO. You didn't really bring up ONE loss did you? OMG!!!
Talk about not knowing what you're talking about. You take the prize today, sonny.
i think this thread would be way more fun with clippage
10-15 years ago i was a pretty heavy recreational player (live and online)
one of my fav guys to follow was kid poker. hammertime mentioned his ability to soul-read an opponent. well, here's an archetype. he literally froze this dude on the turn and river and got two free cards out of it
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Fedor Holz and Bonomo had incredible two or three year runs, two of the top players
although I think maybe Fedor retired already.
I've seen Negreanu many times call what his opponent has out loud after the river card
has been dealt but still go against his instincts and make the wrong decision.
If he would ever believe himself he would be even better. LOL.
I don't disagree with anything you stated. Don't forget the ability to read the other players which i presume you meant that under "part mental."
Regarding "luck." Without a rake, in the long run, the most skilled players will always win. Those who play in unraked home games understand this. In the long run, the variance evens out and then the most skilled with the attributes you stated are the long term winners.
I think Phil Hellmuth has the biggest ego bar none.
I like when he has temper tantrums and tells the other players that they
don't know how to play the game correctly.
That's the one guy who has never lost and it been his fault.
Yes read is part of the mental as is intuition I suppose
Yes most skilled players will win over time . But on any given day a novice can take out a pro. Ive seen this enough in person. I've been at many of table where a guy that doesn't know how to handle his chips, hold his cards etc calls down a pro and hits runner runner to beat him. Sometimes you can't avoid bad beats and luck wins.
It's one of the few games where a first timer can beat a pro on any given day. It's a humbling game
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Good point about Negreanu.
You're right about Holz retiring. Of course he could change his mind at any time. LOL
Actually it's not all that difficult to do calling the players hole cards. For example if a tight player goes all-in with say 6, 8, 9, brick, brick, with no flush draw on the board, the chances are almost certain that player has a 7, 10 for the nut straight. Yes, he could have two pair or a set, but that's where the skill of reading the player comes in, whether he's up or down for the session, his session betting patterns, etc.
All of this weighs into calling that all-in bet for your entire stack encompassing a lot of money, if you're sitting there with top set.
The great ones seem to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em.
He would fit in perfectly in the Sports Forum.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Thanks for the laugh, best line I've read in a while.
Tony G was one of my fav poker personalities. not even sure he plays anymore
stick him and Hellmuth at the same table -- and, even better, next to each other -- and it becomes instant poker gold
definitely worth 19 minutes and 19 seconds of your day
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I've read all about Stu Unger, and of course nobody can deny his talent.
But he died young and dead broke, and in my view that disqualifies him from GOAT consideration.
I stated "at a poker table with the best players in the world." I think Negreanu would likely agree with me.
Negreanu has had many severe losses. The one against Polk was a recent well publicized event.
Yep, anyone who has a regular home game knows that the fish in the game will occasionally get hot and win for the night. That's what keeps them coming back.
You're wrong.
Hellmuth's book is a must read. Especially on starting hands and positioning. If I'm at a loaded table I tend to follow his script and only mix it up once in awhile. If I feel I'm the best player at the table I'll play more hands.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Hellmuth at a poker table with the best players in the world, is even a bigger fish than Negreanu. LOL
That being said, those who understand poker know there is a strategic difference in tournament play versus cash games, and Hellmuth does seem to have a pretty good knack for tournaments, credit where credit is due.
+1
He's wrong more than he's right.
Not worth debating with someone who's not very informed.
Yea, I've watched that bad beat before, Hellmuth against the loose cannon.
Hellmuth did everything right, read the fish opponent perfectly, but still got crushed for around 100k or whatever it was.
Brunson's book was pretty controversial at the time because he "exposed" a lot of insider secrets his fellow pros didn't want exposed. In the end, his book was a good thing and helped expand the world of poker.
There's definitely a big difference between cash game and tournaments. Luck plays way more of a factor in tournaments. Just look at some of the winners of the WSOP Main Event, like Jamie Gold and Jerry Yang - nowhere near the best players at the table, making wrong moves, and still succeeding. It happens
I miss playing online poker. The state of Washington banned it years ago, just before the feds banned it. I pulled my money out of PokerStars just before all the scandals at various sites hit and people's accounts started getting frozen.
Steve I really think you are veering way out of your lane.
Hellmuth HOF
Negreanu HOF
Unger HOF
None of these guys would be FISH at any table anywhere anytime any format. To say so is very disrespectful and flippant at the very least.
By the way DD, Todd Brunson ( son of Doyle) was recently elected to the HOF
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@hammer1 You can disagree with someone, but there is no need to pile onto them. C'mon...
Okay i'll bite, please explain how a poker player who dies dead broke, should be considered the GOAT.
In case you didn't know, i've read where Doyle Brunson is worth around 3/4 of a billion dollars.
I don't know what Chip Reese was worth when he passed, but i'm sure it was a sizable amount of money.
The floor is yours Senator.
It just irks me when site members are having a good convo, and one person posts a multitude of completely unfounded, false comments. Calling Negreneau a fish is akin to saying Mickey Mantle belonged in the minors. If multiple posters tell you you're wrong like myself, Larkin, and Justacommeman did, their posts become troll like in nature
Best thing to do is make him my first poster in my 10 years at CU, to be placed on ignore.
He didn't die broke from losing at poker. He died broke from a cocaine addiction that he spent every penny on (the blue glasses in the photo above were from the 1997 win to hide the fact that his nose had collapsed, leading him to switch to crack). If Stu wanted or needed to win at poker, it was a done deal and no one, not even Doyle could stop him. He could destroy any field at will.
The significant majority of Doyle's money is not from winning at poker. It's from marketing poker and investing wisely. Look at the field size when he won his two main events.
On felt accomplishments are what make a great poker player.
All three of the names you mention deserve to be in the poker Hall of Fame. I'm not denying that.
Now that being said, Bill Maseroski is in the baseball Hall of Fame. Should Bill Maseroski be included in the greatest MLB starting lineup of all time? Of course not.
Same as Negreanu and Hellmuth sitting at a table with the greatest players in a cash game. They usually get beat, and I've often seen that on TV poker shows and Youtube videos.
He won 33% of the major ($5K+ entry fee) tournaments he entered. No one else is even remotely close to that.
You make some valid points, particularly about Doyle Brunson you are 100% correct. I've read where his first book, priced at $100, sold over 300,000 copies. Doing the math, that alone is a cool 30 million dollars earned.
The big money in online poker has always been not thru playing the game, but thru books, affiliate commission programs, etc. Doyle even had his very own gambling website which took in untold millions for him. I'm not sure if it exists any longer, he may have sold it, i'm not sure.
Now...how do you know that Ungar didn't lose his money at poker? You couldn't possibly know that. Frankly, it's well known that Ungar lost a lot of money on sports gambling and was deep in debt when he passed.
My guess, and i think it's a much better guess than yours, is that whatever the reason for him dying broke, likely the other players caught up with his poker playing tendencies and learned how to beat him.
I think that Ungar could no longer win at hold 'em, nobody would play him at gin rummy, so he gravitated to sports betting for his gambling thrills, thinking that his photographic memory might be able to make him money against the bookies...it didn't.
Another fascinating poker player/gambler is Nikos Dandolos known as "Nick the Greek". He got off on the risk of the game. He was elected into the Poker Hall of Fame in 1979. A little article about him. He is pictured here with his trademark cigar in his mouth.
https://www.gamblingsites.com/info/famous-gamblers/nick-dandolos/
Yes, that's exactly why he won the Main Event in 1997 shortly before his death (16 and 17 years after his other Main Event wins) after a 24 hour binge of poker and coke that left him sleeping through part of day 1. Everyone had him figured out.
I've seen the list of tournaments that Ungar entered, and of course it's impressive. Nobody is denying that.