Non CAM/DCAM modern proofs
Higashiyama
Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'd be curious to know the date of the most recent non CAM/DCAM proofs board members have seen.
Apart from reverse proofs, do they exist after about 1975? Does the current approach to manufacture essentially exclude their existence?
Higashiyama
0
Comments
Current manufacture makes it impossible, I think, to not be at least cameo. Dies do continue to wear and if someone doesn't properly rejuvenate them, it's possible to not be deep cameo on everything.
I have mentioned before that a collecting niche could develope whose object would be to find and assemble a proof set with brilliant proofs only the date of which is the closest to the present day.
In the 30's - 60's era of proofs brilliant was the norm and Cameos were the exception.
In the 70's things changed to just the opposite.
i presume you mean in mint condition and not impaired? modern pr58+ sets may be just around the corner?
Some of the 1 oz proof platinum coins are only CAM. Starting from 2013 and going through 2016 there was a noticeable difference. Many still attain the DCAM designation but the PCGS pop reports do show 8 graded as just "CAM" (spread out between those four years).
It is easy enough to look thru the pop reports.
I just looked at proof cents and saw RD and RB examples for 2019.
I found those hard to believe unless they were tampered with somehow.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
just for conversation sake, does that mean you think they cannot tone (color) naturally (or market acceptable with paper envelopes/boxes, coin boards mint packaging or whatever) enough to lose the RD designation in that span of time.
I’ve seen an occasional modern CAM even from the 90s if not later. They’re unusual, especially graded, so while some surely exist, I doubt it’s many and I’m not going to look through sets or junk boxes to find them.
@Cameonut suggested "It is easy enough to look thru the pop reports."
Thanks ... I had looked at the price guide, and hadn't seen any, but the looking at the pop reports for silver Kennedys there is a clearly downward trend in the numbers slabbed without CAM or DCAM:
1992 - 1995 -- roughly 20 per year
1996 - 2000 -- two or three per year
2001 - 2006 -- one per year
2007 - none
I would actually love to see one of these coins -- it would be quite exotic. As @SanctionII says above, finding recent examples would be an interesting niche. If one exists, I would be very interested in seeing a post-2014 redesigned silver Kennedy half as a fully brilliant proof for comparison to the 1964 typical Kennedy proof.
In 1977 there was a noticeable increase in quality and cameo contrast for most proofs.
After 1977, non-cameos are scarce to rare.
I have been acquiring these coins for some time now as I find them waiting for the day when they may have some interest.
Ironically they cost usually much less than their more common counterparts.
I noticed the difference over the years, just never really focused on it. Now that it has come up, I do not think I recall seeing any non-cam/dcam proofs. I did stop buying the standard proof sets about ten years ago....other than the special sets. From reading the above, apparently some exist... will have to watch for one or two. Cheers, RickO
After reading replies to this thread and decided to investigate CoinFacts.
What I saw is that starting in the year 1977 CoinFacts only has a DCAM choice for researching proof coins.
For 1968 to 1976 CoinFacts has PF, CAM and DCAM choices for researching proof coinage.
For the 1968-1976 PF coins CoinFacts has photos of these coins which show coins that do have frost on a portion of the devices, or coins that have fully frosted devices and heavy toning. These coins were not given a Cameo designation, but they clearly are not 100% brilliant.
My recollection (admittedly vague) from prior reading is that in 1973 the methodology of preparing proof dies changed to one that includes chrome plating the dies. This change increased the durability of the dies and thus the number of coins struck from the dies that have fully frosted devices and mirrored fields.
I have not looked at post 1972 proofs in detail. I suspect that if I did I would very few coins that are 100% brilliant. Moving forward from 1973 would see the number of 100% brilliant proofs dropping like they fell off a cliff.