If you had 10,000 to spend on precious metals....
erwindoc
Posts: 5,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
Which one would you buy? Silver, gold, platinum, paladium, other??
1
erwindoc
Posts: 5,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
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I sure wish I had bought $10k in silver 20 years ago... Today, I have no clue.
I would buy gold:
1oz GAE
1oz Buffalo
1oz 2009 UHR,
1/2oz GAE proof
1/2oz 2007 jefferson liberty
1/2oz maple
1/2oz 2016 walking liberty
Edited to add... I just like gold, and these designs, which I think are worth keeping. I don't know if these are a better value than any other option.
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Silver.
AGQ, for the long term
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
NoThing right now, way too overpriced on premiums
An even mix of things. I'm not sure I'd want to buy right now eithet
Classic US gold coins as close to melt as I can find.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
We'll this run up showed you. SAEs sold out immediately and people eagerly paid the bloated premium as well.
rolls of Silver American Eagles. Gold has largely peaked..
Loves me some shiny!
Silver for the best price I could find.
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At the present price of gold, I would put the money away and wait for a dip... Then buy gold, because it will go up, and stay up...in the foreseeable future. Cheers, RickO
Probably a PCGS F15 or VF20 1796 or 1797 silver dollar that matches these two
Any leftover funds would go to quarters like these
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Sterling silver flatware; can use it while you wait.
With the silver premium in play, gold, bullion, 1/2oz and 1oz split....but...stonks instead.
I'd need to add $$$ to the $10,000...
Pre-33 gold & platinum eagles. Haven’t bought anything in a few weeks, might need to find something soon.
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Probably AGE for the long. I don’t see 10K in metals as an investment to make money at this time.
and how do you know that the seller hasn't searched through what you are paying $1000 in extra premium for? First Strike eligibility means nothing if they are all 69s or less. PCGS empowered them to certify they were sealed shortly after being removed from the box (30 days?), APMEX is not certifying they have not been picked over. My experience is that "First Strike" on a 69 label has little to no added value, so why pay an extra 50 clams for each of these coinis?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"All MintDirect® Tubes are sealed in tamper-evident packaging, guaranteeing the tube has never been opened and the coins inside remain untouched."
Source: https://www.apmex.com/mintdirect
The tamper evident packaging can be applied or removed by APMEX and reapplied by APMEX at any time, PCGS is not there to verify the coins are in fact First Strike eligible. The only guarantee that a tube has not been searched is to remove it from a sealed box yourself.
IMO no TPG should base it's certification on the word of a party who is the source for what is being submitted for grading. That is why you and I are, after 30 days, required to submit sealed mint shipping boxes to be eligible for First Strike.
And even the most reputable of grading services can be misled when their certification is based on wrong information provide by outside sources.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I actually believe that the 'Mint Direct' items have not been searched.
Sadly, I do not know a lot about the 'APMEX/PCGS' partnership on 'First Strike', and am unable to add anything. You do, however, make some interesting points.
A rare US gold coin or 2 at 5k.
Four oz buffs.
. . . three silver bars and a partridge in a pear tree.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Gold. That’s what I am buying.
A pretty 100 g gold bar would be my favorite, maybe not financially, but in the looks cool department.
That is less than $10K I think, so I'd fill the 7070 gold page with what is left.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
This means that you are not buying much gold as of late.
Down payment on a rental property.
Small is fine, but nice. If you're willing to put in the legwork, maybe you can find a duplex.
Look for something close to schools (college campus is way better). On bus routes, close to quality shopping (not necessarily a smoke shop or liquor store). A park is nice. Curb appeal.
It may take some time to find what you're looking for. You have to work it.
Next, find a bank willing to loan 80% of the value of a rental property. In other words, you'll need 20% down. 20% was the standard down payment on investment property up until a year or two ago, but is a little less common now. I've seen some banks requiring 30% or even 40%. So do some homework and make some calls to find a 20% down bank. You have to work it.
But wait: at even 20% down, that $10,000 can only buy a $50,000 property? No. While your mileage may vary depending on location, and it might take some time, you should be able to bargain on a $75k or even higher property. Don't be afraid to make 10 offers to find that one willing seller. Better still: Don't be afraid of finding a fixer-upper if you are handy. But don't lie to yourself--you have to be able to do stuff and do it cheap. I mean that part.
Now. This is where it might get a little tricky but not impossible: Find a banker wiling to loan 80% of improved value. In other words, provide your banker and the appraiser with a legitimate list of things you plan on improving in the property. If the place can support a reasonable (reasonable, realistic) $30K in improvements (for example: new roof, upgraded kitchen, upgraded bathroom, refinished floors, maybe some new windows, new HVAC, paint, fixtures, etc.), that's great. If the appraiser is worth their salt, they will value that property that was for sale at $75,000 that you only offered $50,000 on at or close to the sale price of $75,000. Congrats, you just "made" $25,000 by paying $50,000 for a $75,000 property. Now add in the $30,000 in improvements and it should bring the value of the $75,000 home plus $30,000 in improvements up to a total of $105,000 (but hopefully more, let's keep it conservative). So your banker needs to lend you 80% of that new improved value of $105,000. That's $105,000 x 80% =$84,000. So the banker will loan you $84,000. But remember, you bargained the price down to $50,000. So you get the house for nothing down, plus you get $34,000 in your bank account to make those repairs. Add that to the $10,000 you started with, and you should have the money to make the place shine and even start looking for the next place. So long as you're not deluding yourself. That's the tricky part. You have to be real with yourself.
But let's be way conservative and assume that mean appraiser only said the place was worth what you're paying for it: $50,000. Add in the $30,000 in improvements and your property is "worth" $80,000. Your banker will loan you 80% of that, or $64,000. You pay $50,000 for the home and walk away with $14,000 in your pocket. Plus you have your original $10,000 precious metals budget to finish off those repairs. You're golden
Now. You bought well. Remember you got a $75,000 property for $50,000. You already "made" $25,000. But let's forget about that part.
Your mortgage payment on that $64,000 should be about $300. Taxes and insurance, mow those lawns, small repairs, add another $250 to be safe. That's $550 per month. If you can rent this nice, newly remodeled property in a good neighborhood for $1200 or $1300 per month, which shouldn't be too hard, you're cash flowing about $700 per month or $8,400 per year. That's damn close to your $10,000 gift we started with, except that's every year for forever. Imagine getting $500 you get to spend on precious metals every month, plus a couple of tanks full of gas and a few dinners for the family, every month for forever at zero out of pocket.
That's:
A) $8,400 per year.
If you take care of it, that nice property will continue to increase in value every year. If you're lucky, that will be another $2K to $3K per year. Call it :
B ) $3,000 per year
What am I forgetting? Oh yeah. You're paying down principal every time you make that mortgage payment. Not much at first--maybe $100 per month. But that's essentially a long term savings plan that someone else is paying for you, because to you, that mortgage payment is just another monthly expense paid for with the rent you collect. That amount increases slowly every month to where it should be $3,000 to $4,000 per year. That's on top of your cash flow and your appreciation. That's:
C) $3,500 per year.
So you get a freshly remodeled investment property, with zero down, and about $15,000 per year in cash and savings. At the end of the road is a $100,000+ property to live in, sell, or pass down.
Sounds too good to be true, doesn't it?
--Severian the Lame
I need to move to the sticks so I can do that.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
You remember when Luke thinks he can't levitate the rocks, so Yoda levitates the whole X-wing fighter?
The process works the same whether you're talking a $75,000 property or a $300,000 property. Or a $3,000,000 property.
--Severian the Lame
Just bustin' yer balls. Me & the Mrs. have been talking about an investment property for years... everything just seems so inflated right now and there is a TON of buying competition here in my area.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
Wiess is right (he oughta know!), if the market's right. A lot of money has been chasing investment properties in recent years (along with all sorts of other tangibles), however, such that Meltdown's experience has become a common one. Depends altogether on the area of the country.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Here's the last picture I have of Weiss, by the way. It's probably a couple of years old...
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Being a slumlord is as much a PITA as selling widgets on feeBay. Lots of fees, closing costs, repairs, bad tenants etc. When all said and done it probably cost you money. Diversification is wonderful but you'd be much better off with a field full of Angus beef. Hardly no effort and the tax breaks are great. Hell take some gooberment subsidies while you're at it. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Why would you invest in rental properties with a rent moratorium until June at least? Buying a rental in a college area is a horrible idea unless you don’t mind doing massive repairs after ravers, not getting paid or paid on time, and constant turnover.
Pre 1933, certified, generic gold. As close to spot as possible.
Why would you want a valuable asset that is under pressure and selling at a steep discount, available on the lowest margins (interest rates) seen in a lifetime?
Why would you want investment property in a town or city where there is a growth industry based on cutting edge technology, doesn't pollute, isn't dependent on supply and demand or the whim of the economy?
Why would you want intelligent, serious tenants who understand obligations, deadlines, contracts?
Why would you want tenants who, if you treat them well, will stay with you for 3-4 years during one of the happiest times of their lives?
Why would you want tenants who literally grew up on social media and who, if you treat them well, will do your advertising for you via Facebook, Twitch, Instagram, Snap Chat, Twitter, etc. etc. ?
Why would you want tenants whose rent money comes from a job when you can have tenants whose rent money comes from a job PLUS mom and dad, PLUS a 529 account, PLUS government secured student loans...or a combination of all four?
Why would you buy an investment for no out of pocket, with built-in equity, secured by itself rather than your other assets, with unimaginable tax advantages and at least three potential revenue sources over which you have a fair degree of control?
I have no idea.
I'm just a guy, taking images of a few new coins on a Friday at 9:35 am, listening to liquid drum and bass in my new 5,000 square foot house, drinking a cup of coffee and screwing around on the internet, waiting for my wife, sitting across from me, to finish a project and for my son, upstairs on his remote class at his private school, so we can all get a leisurely lunch together.
You're probably right, though.
--Severian the Lame
@Weiss
you forgot 'why would I want to own an asset that is the easiest asset to tax and impossible to move to a more favorable taxing jurisdiction'
I
Where your competitors and customers are all bound by the exact same restrictions, without exception, so that the playing field is always naturally level and these expenses are automatically passed through to the customers?
--Severian the Lame
I'd buy Stocks and Crypto with the 10k
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I would respectfully disagree. Your customer can move to another jurisdiction that didn't spend itself into oblivion and doesn't need to tax everything they can see.
If your customer wants to go to college in this town, live in this town, work in this town, raise a family in this town, they can't live in another jurisdiction.
They can't buy it cheaper online. They can't find it used on eBay. They can't get it in the neighboring state or town and move it here.
But what do I know? I'm just a guy with his feet propped up on his desk, playing on the internet. Oh I did some work today, too: I went to the post office and picked up the last of the rent checks for February. Stopped by a coin shop and talked to the owner for the better part of an hour. Talked with a buddy who has some rolls of Libertads they'd like to sell (see the February BST for details).
But you're probably right
--Severian the Lame
I guess you are right - I forgot that only your town has a college, jobs, the ability to live and raise a family. Which is a good thing - otherwise you would see people who were perfectly happy going to college in a town, living in a town, working in a town and raising a family in a town moving to another jurisdiction because the qualify of life in that town has gone down...
All this back and forth rental property talk reminds me of a client I had when I was doing taxes part time for H&R Block after I retired from my fulltime job.
He bought mobile homes for an average of $5,000 each and rented them out for $100 a week. When we got to claiming his business mileage he said he visited each of them twice a week, once at the beginning of the week to pick up the rent and once in the middle of the week to see if they would still be there when he went to pick up the rent the next week. True story.
To answer the OP's question if I had to spend 10K it would probably be on modern $5 commemorative gold or classic pre-33 gold as close to melt as possible.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Yea, I have friends that own rental properties. Listening to what they tell me, it seems like more headache than it’s worth. I’ll just continue investing like I have been. It’s worked out well thus far.
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Hahaha, spent $8600 yesterday! Bought 2 double eagles, Indian eagle, few gold and platinum pandas, 2 platinum 1/4, bunch of 90% silver, 1/4, 1/10 age! Had a ball!
Two months ago I would have said 5+ ounces of iridium sponge (provided you could get around limits such as 10 oz min). Leave it in its sealed container until today and you could sell it off, put your $10k back in your pocket, and still buy $10k+ in whichever mainstream PM you wanted.