1878-CC Trade dollar on ebay-is this allowable? Report?
rec78
Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
This coin does not meet the hobby protection act requirement, as there is no indication that is is a "Copy" on the coin. Advertised correctly, but you may see it on ebay in few months or weeks after the buyer works it over and changes its appearence. Report if you want.
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Wow! Nice fake. Extremely well done. Not a chinese piece of crap. Yes, it's a violation but I bet there are many that would love to own that piece (as shown by bids). Fully disclosed so I say leave it be. Let it run the course.
bob
It's not allowed on eBay because no counterfeits, however advertised, are allowed to be sold. As for the Hobby Protection Act, it's not definitively a violation because if it was made prior to the Act going into effect, COPY is not required.
The potential problem is whether those are buyers who want to fill the hole or have a study piece, or if they see a way to get an expensive coin that looks real cheap, and then sell it without the disclosure later on. Unlike colonials (and the early Federal era), I'm not sure of there being much of a market for counterfeits, especially if they aren't contemporary issues that had a notable use in commerce.
Seller says 92% silver.....I wonder if that is accurate. Perhaps it is real.
bob
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and another good thing is that ebay doesn't allow ANY fantasy coins far as i know.
good comment about the seller(s) altering coins so they may slide through the system another time.
I'll also note that the seller knows he's skirting the rules. eBay will flag and prevent coins from being listed when keywords like counterfeit or reproduction are used. A fantasy coin is a non-genuine example of a coin that never existed. For instance, an 1889-CC trade dollar would be a fantasy issue. A copy of a real coin is not a fantasy, it's a counterfeit.
I disagree. An 1889cc Trade dollar, although never produced, if not marked copy properly would be considered a counterfeit. If it says United States of America and has One Dollar on it, that makes it a counterfeit. A fantasy issues would be one that did not have a denomination on it or a country on it or such.
bob
PS: had snow in Vegas this morning....had to shake it off all the trees or risk damage and breakage! Fun morning.
Not if it's struck over an existing trade dollar, I'm told.
I'll grant this is a fair viewpoint. Maybe that coin could be a mixed counterfeit and fantasy. I suppose the best example of a fantasy would simply be a design that never was (nor was it a pattern). But I hope we can all agree that a replica of a coin that most definitely existed exactly as the replica was made is a counterfeit and not a fantasy.
Striking over an existing trade dollar just makes it damaged. Still real but ruined.
bob
It is listed right up front that it is a "Fantasy Coin" so let the buyers beware to spend what they want for something that is Not Real...
A counterfeit is a counterfeit no matter what it is called. The bid is $202.51 with 6 hours to go. Why would anyone pay over $200 for a counterfeit? To put it in their album so when the estate is being sold, they can sell it as a real coin? Calling it a "fantasy coin" makes no difference.
Reported.
So over printing a dollar bill would make it still real? I bet if you overprinted a dollar bill with something else the whole fantasy argument wouldn't fly in court. People are confusing the FBI not caring enough to mess with the Moonlight Mint with an endorsement of legality. It isn't
If the other side is true, in that case people also confuse the legal thing to do and the right thing to do. An artist should never copy other people's designs for their profit. Happens all the time but it is still bogus
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
reported. "violates ebay policy of no replicas in coin listings."
The price of gold is set by faith, or lack of, in the currency it is priced in.
Who would pay over $200 for it? Crazy world we live in!
Really interesting that the seller shares what % silver it is made of. It looks like this counterfeit we discussed many moons ago is rearing it's head once again:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/899612/new-prevalent-1878-cc-trade-dollar-counterfeit-tpg-certified/p1
better than average fake, but still crummy dentils next to TED on the rev.
Stealer, thanks for sharing the past thread. Whoever is producing the counterfeit is very deceptive in using different wear patterns, toning, on each of the examples.
There is a school of thought that if you make a fake and tell everyone it’s fake and tell them if they sell it they have to reveal it’s fake then everything is o.k. and you don’t need to put “copy” on it to comply with the Act. I don’t know enough about the law and legal aspects, but these copies, fakes, counterfeits, fantasy issues, whatever you want to call them, are getting better and better...but I don’t think the hobby is better for it.
Total Hogwash,
It is not ok and you (the minter), do have to comply with the act.
That "School of thought" is totally incorrect, because there is always someone out there who will not care about the next person and try to sell it as a real item. All the buyer has to do is take it to a coin show, put a price on it that almost seems like a bargain and it will sell. This coin is an extremely good counterfeit and could fool even the most advanced collector.
The problem with the Hobby protection act of 1965 is that I don't think that it has ever been enforced. I do not know what the penalties are for not complying with it. Probably just confiscation of the fakes. Legit private mints comply with it.
Sold for $282....I believe we will see this 'coin' again....soon....Cheers, RickO
This is a known counterfeit, not a "fantasy". It has several pickup points that make it so. See this thread from a few years ago. An example of this fake even made it past the graders...
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/899612/new-prevalent-1878-cc-trade-dollar-counterfeit-tpg-certified/p1
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
The sale of this coin is concerning as the eBay seller Las Vegas Jewelry & Coin Buyers is a PNG member, and selling counterfeits as fantasy coins is against eBay's policy. I expect higher standards from PNG members, but maybe my confidence in PNG membership is misplaced. I agree with RickO that the counterfeit will soon be back on the market.
It is sickening people would bid that on it.
I didn't say there weren't laws against defacing currency, as there are. Just that defacing or damaging something real does not make it a fake. I do think that it's legal to deface cents and one dollar bills only.
bob