Claiming ownership of a coin without having it?
Macintosh
Posts: 2 ✭
Hi fellow registry set collectors.
An example I would like to put forth is a coin sold from great collections on the 24th of January 2021. The new owner (or possibly another registry member) is claiming they have the coin in hand and want it added to their registry set. At best I have experienced it takes about a week to receive a package from great collections after the coin is paid for. I believe the pcgs registry states you should first request the coin be added to your sets, then if the owner is unable or has not released the coin, you can send in a picture to pcgs and ask for the switch. Pcgs will then make an effort to contact the original owner of the coin, 1) to make sure they still do not own this coin, and 2) to make sure by some miracle that 2 coins have the same certification number or 3) that the coin is in a fake holder. All of these measures are to protect the integrity of the registry sets.
(This is a copy of my note to pcgs)
Hi pcgs. a buyer asked me to release this coin from my sets, before he received it? In the past I was asked not to do this. Is this what pcgs wants collectors to do with registry coins? here is the information on the coin.
19966288, PCGS #406610
asked to remove on 1/25/21
How do you feel about this activity?
Comments
Perhaps the new owner is just excited to get it added to his collection? If the coin already sold, why wouldn't you release it, regardless of whether the new buyer has actually received it from GreatCollections yet or not? If it is a false claim, the new owner can dispute that when they do receive the coin in hand and try adding it. I don't see a problem with this, while I personally wait to add coins until they are in my possession (it's just easier on my bookkeeping), I am sometimes tempted to add it once the auction closes.
My eBay Store | My Registry Profile
Not technically correct on the buyer's part but I have less of a problem with a buyer adding a coin to his registry while he is waiting to take delivery than a seller refusing to release an item under the circumstances you describe in your post. Once the coin is sold, i would release it and let PCGS police their own registry.
I've had a number of buyers over the years ask me to release a coin that I keep blocked from the registry prior to their receiving the coin. I've always done so, but have marveled at the lack of patience.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
IMO If you no longer own the coin, you should release it upon sale.
Many sellers forget to do so and then the buyer must jump thru the hoops to to get it into their registry set.
Kennedys are my quest...
WAYNEAS I couldn't agree more.
IMO, Once a coin is sold from a one on one sale, sale through an auction site, GC, DLRC, eBay etc. sale, the coin should then be immediately removed from the sellers inventory. It is sold, no longer yours. It should not be in your inventory. Sorry for getting slightly off thread.
As for adding it to the buyers inventory, I do not do this until it is in my hand. I sometimes have high anticipation waiting for a new coin. I look forward to opening the pkg. admiring the coin, then going to my computer, sitting down and entering it while I have the coin in front of me. Kind of takes away from receiving the coin after I've already entered it in my inventory.
In theory I agree that once a coin is "sold" it should be removed from the seller's inventory. However, it depends upon what constitutes a sale.
Someone who buys a coin from my website will not have the coin in-hand for at least two days and perhaps not for a week or more, which is all dependent upon how quickly the USPS delivers the package to the recipient. During this time window the client only has my images and description to go by and even though I go to great lengths to portray coins accurately, there can be an honest difference of opinion between a prospective buyer and seller. I also offer a no questions asked complete refund of purchase price if the coin either does not match my images and description or if the client simply changes their mind during transit. This means that until a client has a coin in-hand, they can't possibly know if they are going to complete the purchase. Therefore, if I have a coin blocked for the registry then that block stays in place until I hear from the client that the coin arrived safely and that they are satisfied with it.
It may seem like a minor point, but i don't want to free up a cert number for someone who might then immediately return the coin to me for refund since I will then have to ask for them to release the cert number from their own set(s) and, as we know, not everyone is quick to perform such a courtesy for others.
From my experience, it is a lot cleaner to simply wait until you have a coin in-hand and are satisfied with it before entering it into a registry set.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
TomB, valid points although I don't believe it is so minor. A pet peeve of mine is buying a coin then having to request, wait, take pictures and send them in to get a coin released. i personally am a collector, not a dealer so I do not sell coins. For those such as yourself that do, I believe you have the correct procedure in place.
Smart idea, TomB!
I believe a coin can be yours without it being in your possession. If it's sold, you should have no qualms about releasing it. It's not your responsibility as a previous owner to enforce registry conduct.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
I think when sold, especially if the seller is a dealer, it should be part of their business to automatically, and within the lapse of a business day to release the coin.
If the coin is returned, it should also be part of the dealers process to remind the collector to release the coin so it can be added back to inventory. That being said, if the dealer gets the coin back, does it really need to be added back into the PCGS Registry?
When I buy a coin I like to add it immediately because it is easier for me to document the date, cost, seller, and any other info about the coin and upload any pics I have gleaned. This also allows me to remove it from wish and want lists so I dont inadvertently buy a duplicate coin.
I dont have alot of coins, and so far there has never been an issue with not getting a coin released by the next day... until maybe yesterday's purchase where the seller advised that they need to ask the executor of the estate to do the release... for this, I can be quite patient.
Just my 2 cents.
I mainly collect raw Ancients, PCGS Mercury Dimes, and raw CSA'S... but have misc other sets...Jeffhttps://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/set/215647https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/8378
The reason I keep inventory cert numbers listed in a private registry set is because in the past I have had clients request that I release coins from a registry set when, in fact, I had never registered them in the first place. In other words, a previous owner had registered the coin or just some random person had entered the cert number into their own set and I had no clue. When that has happened, I have had to respond to the client that I was never a party to having the coin in a set and to contact PCGS themselves.
Therefore, if I register a coin that will go into inventory it does two things for me and/or my potential client; first, it establishes that the coin isn't already registered in another set and, second, it prohibits someone from taking the cert number and adding it to their own set either on purpose or inadvertently.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Makes sense to me! So it would seem the same way when a buyer wants to register it. If not released they can find out from the seller what experience they have?
I mainly collect raw Ancients, PCGS Mercury Dimes, and raw CSA'S... but have misc other sets...Jeffhttps://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/set/215647https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/8378
Valid points have been posted for sure and this thread has enlightened me. I can see both sides of this discussion. But once again I am a collector only. I do not sell my coins. Personally I have been frustrated some 60+ times over the last couple of years having to go through the whole process of request removal, wait 3 days ( if it's not a weekend ), taking and sending the pictures so that I can add coins to my set. This from coins bought from multiple venues, eBay, GC, private dealers and some from major auction houses.
I agree to the above.
But not this part
No malice meant here but just my insight.
I am interpreting this as it is ok for one party to have to request a release and not the other party depending who is the buyer and who is the seller. How often has someone sent back a coin that they registered into their sets and you have to ask them to release it? With you not releasing the coin, all who buy from you must make the request each and every time for every sale for the release.
To me all sellers rights to a coin ends when it it sold and payment is received. Coin issues after the sale are all secondary and hopefully rare.
Have a great day.
Kennedys are my quest...
And yet again the waiting begins. Rec'd a 32-S Washington Qtr. today purchased from a dealer. Try to enter into my set. Guess what ? Previous owner ( which likely isn't the dealer ) has it in a registry set. FRUSTRATING Request sent. Hopefully I don't have to wait the 3 days, pictures etc.
One thing I did not tell you, and that you would have no special insight in if you hadn't purchased a coin from me already, is that I typically ship coins prior to being paid for them and only ask to be paid for the coin after the potential client receives the coin and is happy with it. Therefore, I don't consider a coin sold until I receive the corresponding payment and know the client is satisfied, but I am willing to delete a cert number prior to receiving payment once I hear from the client that they received the coin safely and are keeping it.
This might seem like a risky business strategy (shipping prior to getting paid) but I have "only" been burned one time and it was for a $500 coin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
the lol is for I am a firm believer that these things only happen to me.
Kennedys are my quest...
Since mid 2018, I've had over 60, maybe close to 70 that I've had to go through the whole process. In 2019 I had 5 coins, including a couple top pops that I had to wait through a holiday weekend ( 3 business day wait ). Pictures sent on Wednesday a.m. It was the next Wednesday when they were released. FRUSTRATED.
In my opinion, once I pay for a coin it is mine. Sometimes I enter right away and other times I wait for in hand. If it is a valuable coin, I check to make sure the cert is valid.
Welcome to the boards Macintosh
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This to me makes a big difference as you have not received payment so you are still the owner of the item. Any request to remove the cert from my inventory, would be denied by me also, but since I never sell coins but only purchase them, this will never be a problem or concern for me. That's why when I receive a request to remove a cert from inventory by "another" owner, I know that they have made an error or are FOS.
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I do not know if I have bought a coin from you or not without having to go thru several dozen files to see. I can tell you that I
immediately pay in minutes for any winning bid or purchase 100% of the time. This I do once I am notified that I won.
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Here is hoping that you never get burned again as once is too many times
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Hey @TomB . When are you going to have some new coins for sale? 😉
Also, isn’t unusual for a dealer to take the time to enter their inventory into a registry? I think Tom must be an exception to the norm.
As a seller, I release the coin from my inventory as soon as it is sold.
As far as buying if I buy a coin and it is not immediately released I will never buy a coin from that seller again. Nothing I buy is so rare there aren't multiple sources.
Release it. It's not yours. And I looked up the cert...all this drama over a 2009 quarter
I don't see a problem asking for it to be removed once it's paid for. I'm waiting for one now and I sent the request because when it arrives I want to enter it into my inventory that day, not days later. Is it a big deal? As far as I'm concerned it is. It's my coin.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
When i put coins up for sale I just delete them from my inventory right after I list them. Is that wrong?
Although I do not sell my coins, IMO I would not remove them until they are actually sold. Saves entering them back into my inventory if they do not sell.
I think PCGS rules state that to request removal You need to possess the coin
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
Once the transaction has happened and money changed hands, the coin is no more your's.
Just release it.
If somehow it gets returned, then the other person has to release it as soon as the cash is refund.
What is the difficulty in this?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
It took me nearly a month after getting the coin in my hand and putting up multiple requests to get a coin released. I was not too eager to add it to registry but it was indeed a very annoying waste of time nevertheless.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
I admit to being excited about adding new coins...but the truth is that there is only one day per year that is important to PCGS for coins in Your collection...
5PM on the last day before Annual Awards
Any other day that You add the coin does not matter one iota...other than satisfy Your own ego in keeping up with the friendly competition that is inherent within Set Registry
And although I thoroughly disagree with several aspects of The Rules...this one is not gonna change anytime soon without the serious effort of the collectors whose names appear in the Top 5 Rank spots of most of the sets in the Registry
And they don't seem to be too concerned with it
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold
not to the buyer
Kennedys are my quest...
Once you’ve sold a coin, just release it from your registry set. The new owner is excited to add it to theirs and allowing them to do so without going through the whole release requests process is a thoughtful thing. It’s all virtual anyway. So - there is no risk.
The bottom line is if someone is selling it why do they care if it's in their registry anyway? They obviously don't want the coin.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Such a pet peeve when people don’t release sold coins from their sets. Going through the process now as a matter of fact.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
At one time I held 3000 pcgs coins in my collection. Without exception I had "to go through hoops" I think one collector stated to get the coin I bought, entered into my sets.
hum .. when does title transfer? ... I would think upon payment as is the case for auction houses. You pay (and clears) you own it. The dealer may still hold risk of lost via shipment and insurance but I believe most terms are it is now the other parties coin. PCGS request coin in Hand which is their right to request ... even if we do no like it.
I don't request until I do have the coin in hand. My issue is " I purchased the coin. It is now mine. " It's then shipped to me, I attempt to enter it into my inventory, NOPE. Still in the sellers inventory. Even though It's not theirs. So I send request, no response. After 3 days I have to take pictures, send them to our hosts ( they are actually quite good about releasing the coin quickly ) before I can enter the coin into my inventory. Over 70 times in the last 2 years I've had to go through this. IT'S BULL**IT !!!! The rules say the seller can have his sets removed from the Registry for failure to release on request, from their inventory, a coin they have sold. THAT'S NOT HAPPENING. I've complained about this on several different threads hoping our hosts would see it and address this issue. If our gracious hosts would enforce their rules I guarantee sellers would start removing from their inventory coins they've sold. Will this upset some people ? Absolutely. Do I care ? NO !!! I follow the rules, so should we all. END OF RANT.
Upsetting people is the necessary first step in getting the rules followed.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Well, I must admit, I'm a little upset about it. In the grand scheme of things, an additional 3 to 7 days to enter a coin isn't that big of a deal. But the laziness of some people tends to aggravate me. FOLLOW THE RULES, and to our hosts, ENFORCE THE RULES. I can't help but think if PCGS would do this, once the word got out, the problem would take care of itself. I understand not everyone has Registry sets so they simply don't care. For those that do, I believe they would remove sold coins from their inventory when sold by FOLLOWING THE RULES. I now have several sellers who I no longer deal with because of this.
Have you considered the person who owned the coins may have died and their heirs don't know much except to sell the coins. I am aware that this has happened in the last year. I have tried to put instructions in my files, but with 2,500 plus coins in the registry, and a lot of top sets, I don't have any idea what might happen, when I no longer can follow the rules.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I have. However, someone had the presence of mind to list them for auction with what I consider one of the top 3 auction houses. If it was heirs listing them, I'd like to think if the deceased had the presence of mind to leave instructions on where to sell, they also would inform their loved ones about removing them from the registry.
My son has no interest in coins but he has been informed of inventory removal as well as where to sell my collection. Granted, if this situation had not been brought up on previous posts, I would not have the presence of mind to address this issue.
It has been stated in other posts about auction houses getting the coins released. IMO this will just add costs and delay listings.
Edit : Just so everyone knows, I just received message that the seller has released the coins, so I am very happy.
Maybe the best bet is if you plan on selling it, release before it goes on the market
I mainly collect raw Ancients, PCGS Mercury Dimes, and raw CSA'S... but have misc other sets...Jeffhttps://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/set/215647https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/8378
Agree 100 %
I think everyone with a significant collection of anything should leave detailed instructions to their family or loved ones on what to do with it somewhere in their Trust documents.
That would include the item locations, basis and dates of purchase if known, which ones are more special than others to keep, where to sell the others, (vs the closest pawn shop, LOL), link and password to the PCGS site and customer support phone numbers to the various major auction houses or other dealers.
I recommend printing or at least saving a .csv file to document their entire PCGS, or other inventory, every several months to have a copy in case the registry is not available or the internet has an issue.
Always be prepared, (my eagle scout motto) as unexpected things can happen without warning.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
This is the message that appears when you try to add a cert that is already registered:
Send Removal Request?
The item(s) you’ve attempted to add to your inventory is currently in another member’s Registry. You should only add inventory when you own and have physical possession of the item(s). Members who have sold items are not required to remove an item from their inventory until they have received payment and shipped the item(s) sold.
So it kinda contradicts itself by saying that if you're the new owner you should have physical possession, but if you're the previous owner then you should release it once you've "received payment and shipped the item sold".
So which is it?
Agreed.
yolo
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/date-sets/hashtags-prefect-coin-grading-service-1879/album/7621
I don't look for our hosts to give up that info. I still believe the solution to this problem is for our hosts to ENFORCE THEIR RULES. ( Loosely translated ) Upon request, the seller has three business days to release the coin. Failure to do so can cause the seller to have his sets removed from the Registry.
I am getting so damn frustrated that our hosts don't do this. If they would ENFORCE THEIR RULES IMO it wouldn't take very long for the word to get out that the RULES ARE BEING ENFORCED. Remove the coin from your inventory before you sell it, or your Registry sets will be removed.
I purchased a 1978 nickel on eBay and it arrived last week and when I tried to add it the Request Release came up
Some digging within the Set Registry and I found out which set it was in...located the set...and sent a direct message to the registered Collectors Universe member
It was released within minutes
But in all reality...the only firm date that You really need to have the coin in Your set is 5PM on June 30
Any other day of the year it's only Your ego that gets satisfied
My 1957-2022 Proof Set Collection Has Been Sold