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Missing clad layer on Quarter

Coin_nut1977Coin_nut1977 Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

Probably not the real deal. Just need some expertise on this coin just in case. I wouldn't like the fact if I tossed it back in the wild and it was an error. thanks in advance.

Comments

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, it's been copper plated.

    It is not a 'missing outer clad layer' error.

    It's worth face value - it did not leave the US Mint like that.....sorry

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • Coin_nut1977Coin_nut1977 Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    No, it's been copper plated.

    It is not a 'missing outer clad layer' error.

    It's worth face value - it did not leave the US Mint like that.....sorry

    Thank you Fred

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2021 10:36AM

    @FredWeinberg said:
    No, it's been copper plated.

    It is not a 'missing outer clad layer' error.

    It's worth face value - it did not leave the US Mint like that.....sorry

    I don't think it's plated. I think it's just rusty.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭✭

    rust is iron oxide

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    No, it's been copper plated.

    It is not a 'missing outer clad layer' error.

    It's worth face value - it did not leave the US Mint like that.....sorry

    I am surprised you think this quarter has been plated.
    Looks like simple corrosion to me.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,728 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Environmental damage. Not plated.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't agree - if it were environmentally damaged
    surfaces, then all the outer clad layers would have
    to be missing, right, for it to be copper on both sides.
    Clad coinage doesn't 'rust' like that.

    There is way too much detail for us to be looking at
    a copper core - and I'd bet that the coin weighs close
    to a normal clad quarter - probably a touch over.

    It is not corroded or surface damage only, imo.

    Can we get an edge view, and a weight, in grams or grains?

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Metal detecting coin, common esp at the beach

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a low tide mud coin to me. Stained by the elements.

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I don't agree - if it were environmentally damaged
    surfaces, then all the outer clad layers would have
    to be missing, right, for it to be copper on both sides.
    Clad coinage doesn't 'rust' like that.

    There is way too much detail for us to be looking at
    a copper core - and I'd bet that the coin weighs close
    to a normal clad quarter - probably a touch over.

    It is not corroded or surface damage only, imo.

    Can we get an edge view, and a weight, in grams or grains?

    If you're right and everyone else is wrong you sir are truly a giant genius and gentleman.

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm just giving my opinion - I'm not a genius.

    I'm just saying that in my view, the coin is just
    not simply 'corroded' from being buried or just
    having enviornmentally damaged surfaces.

    Viewing the photos, I believe the coin was copper
    plated - what happened to it after it was copper
    plated could be other surface damage.

    As mentioned in my previous post, I'm guessing
    that the coin weighs the normal clad quarter weight,
    or a touch more for the plating. I'm also guessing
    that the edge of the coin is also all copper colored.

    Hey, if I'm wrong I'm wrong.......but that's what it looks
    like to me..

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
  • I agree with likely metal detector find. I’ve dug clad coins many times that have that orange brown discoloration.

    "A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes"--Hugh Downs
  • CoinscratchCoinscratch Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If there's one thing I've learned here, it's to keep your silly azzed comments to yourself. So I'm not even gonna say what I was thinking, about it looking like it was found in a septic tank and all...

  • Bigbuck1975Bigbuck1975 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Metal detector coin

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,381 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2021 5:45PM

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I don't agree - if it were environmentally damaged
    surfaces, then all the outer clad layers would have
    to be missing, right, for it to be copper on both sides.
    Clad coinage doesn't 'rust' like that.

    There is way too much detail for us to be looking at
    a copper core - and I'd bet that the coin weighs close
    to a normal clad quarter - probably a touch over.

    It is not corroded or surface damage only, imo.

    Can we get an edge view, and a weight, in grams or grains?

    I don't think the clad layers are corroded and missing, I think they are just rusty. I've seen clad coins rust like that before. It's red rust over a normal quarter to my eye.

    Like this only less green:

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I don't agree - if it were environmentally damaged
    surfaces, then all the outer clad layers would have
    to be missing, right, for it to be copper on both sides.
    Clad coinage doesn't 'rust' like that.

    There is way too much detail for us to be looking at
    a copper core - and I'd bet that the coin weighs close
    to a normal clad quarter - probably a touch over.

    It is not corroded or surface damage only, imo.

    Can we get an edge view, and a weight, in grams or grains?

    I don't think the clad layers are corroded and missing, I think they are just rusty. I've seen clad coins rust like that before. It's red rust over a normal quarter to my eye.

    Like this only less green:

    I recall reading that the color change on 75Cu25Ni alloy ground find/metal detector is due to a Cu enrichment of the surface.

    NOTE: I do not have the references.

    I think the acidic ground conditions cause the Ni to leach from the surface leaving localized areas of higher Cu concentrations. The Cu then reacts to form the brown oxides and/or other compounds.

    I'm relying on memory but feel this is reasonably accurate. If anybody has data/info to support or correct this, I would be very interested in seeing it. Thanks

    Also, I don't like referring to this discoloration as rust. I guess you can call any oxidized surface rust, but when most people hear the term, they associate it with iron oxide. I suppose iron oxides can form on a coin if the ground conditions are right, but I feel that the discoloration is primarily due to corrosion of the metals in the alloy, not accreting iron oxide.

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Oldhoopster said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I don't agree - if it were environmentally damaged
    surfaces, then all the outer clad layers would have
    to be missing, right, for it to be copper on both sides.
    Clad coinage doesn't 'rust' like that.

    There is way too much detail for us to be looking at
    a copper core - and I'd bet that the coin weighs close
    to a normal clad quarter - probably a touch over.

    It is not corroded or surface damage only, imo.

    Can we get an edge view, and a weight, in grams or grains?

    I don't think the clad layers are corroded and missing, I think they are just rusty. I've seen clad coins rust like that before. It's red rust over a normal quarter to my eye.

    Like this only less green:

    I recall reading that the color change on 75Cu25Ni alloy ground find/metal detector is due to a Cu enrichment of the surface.

    NOTE: I do not have the references.

    I think the acidic ground conditions cause the Ni to leach from the surface leaving localized areas of higher Cu concentrations. The Cu then reacts to form the brown oxides and/or other compounds.

    I'm relying on memory but feel this is reasonably accurate. If anybody has data/info to support or correct this, I would be very interested in seeing it. Thanks

    Also, I don't like referring to this discoloration as rust. I guess you can call any oxidized surface rust, but when most people hear the term, they associate it with iron oxide. I suppose iron oxides can form on a coin if the ground conditions are right, but I feel that the discoloration is primarily due to corrosion of the metals in the alloy, not accreting iron oxide.

    Yes, technically rust is oxidized iron. But it is much easier to understand "rusty" rather than "chemically oxidized" for most people. IMHO

  • OldhoopsterOldhoopster Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Oldhoopster said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I don't agree - if it were environmentally damaged
    surfaces, then all the outer clad layers would have
    to be missing, right, for it to be copper on both sides.
    Clad coinage doesn't 'rust' like that.

    There is way too much detail for us to be looking at
    a copper core - and I'd bet that the coin weighs close
    to a normal clad quarter - probably a touch over.

    It is not corroded or surface damage only, imo.

    Can we get an edge view, and a weight, in grams or grains?

    I don't think the clad layers are corroded and missing, I think they are just rusty. I've seen clad coins rust like that before. It's red rust over a normal quarter to my eye.

    Like this only less green:

    I recall reading that the color change on 75Cu25Ni alloy ground find/metal detector is due to a Cu enrichment of the surface.

    NOTE: I do not have the references.

    I think the acidic ground conditions cause the Ni to leach from the surface leaving localized areas of higher Cu concentrations. The Cu then reacts to form the brown oxides and/or other compounds.

    I'm relying on memory but feel this is reasonably accurate. If anybody has data/info to support or correct this, I would be very interested in seeing it. Thanks

    Also, I don't like referring to this discoloration as rust. I guess you can call any oxidized surface rust, but when most people hear the term, they associate it with iron oxide. I suppose iron oxides can form on a coin if the ground conditions are right, but I feel that the discoloration is primarily due to corrosion of the metals in the alloy, not accreting iron oxide.

    Yes, technically rust is oxidized iron. But it is much easier to understand "rusty" rather than "chemically oxidized" for most people. IMHO

    Agree. I generally use the terms environmental corrosion or environmental damage to describe this type of discoloration. IMO, it conveys the information without implying Iron oxide, and there are possibly other some metallic reaction products (sulfides, carbonates, etc) besides oxides.

    Do you have any info to help support that the discoloration is caused by Copper surface enrichment due to Ni leaching? I remember reading that a few times on the various forums from people that I felt had credible chemistry/metallurgy backgrounds, but hate repeating it as "fact" without some confirmation.

    Member of the ANA since 1982
  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Yes, technically rust is oxidized iron. But it is much easier to understand "rusty" rather than "chemically oxidized" for most people. IMHO

    Too many words for the average idiot. Just say "magic".

    However, here amongst people who are supposedly a little more in tune with coins, I'd err on the side of being accurate.

    -----Burton
    ANA 49 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus" because ANA can't count)
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,381 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Oldhoopster said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Oldhoopster said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    I don't agree - if it were environmentally damaged
    surfaces, then all the outer clad layers would have
    to be missing, right, for it to be copper on both sides.
    Clad coinage doesn't 'rust' like that.

    There is way too much detail for us to be looking at
    a copper core - and I'd bet that the coin weighs close
    to a normal clad quarter - probably a touch over.

    It is not corroded or surface damage only, imo.

    Can we get an edge view, and a weight, in grams or grains?

    I don't think the clad layers are corroded and missing, I think they are just rusty. I've seen clad coins rust like that before. It's red rust over a normal quarter to my eye.

    Like this only less green:

    I recall reading that the color change on 75Cu25Ni alloy ground find/metal detector is due to a Cu enrichment of the surface.

    NOTE: I do not have the references.

    I think the acidic ground conditions cause the Ni to leach from the surface leaving localized areas of higher Cu concentrations. The Cu then reacts to form the brown oxides and/or other compounds.

    I'm relying on memory but feel this is reasonably accurate. If anybody has data/info to support or correct this, I would be very interested in seeing it. Thanks

    Also, I don't like referring to this discoloration as rust. I guess you can call any oxidized surface rust, but when most people hear the term, they associate it with iron oxide. I suppose iron oxides can form on a coin if the ground conditions are right, but I feel that the discoloration is primarily due to corrosion of the metals in the alloy, not accreting iron oxide.

    Yes, technically rust is oxidized iron. But it is much easier to understand "rusty" rather than "chemically oxidized" for most people. IMHO

    Agree. I generally use the terms environmental corrosion or environmental damage to describe this type of discoloration. IMO, it conveys the information without implying Iron oxide, and there are possibly other some metallic reaction products (sulfides, carbonates, etc) besides oxides.

    Do you have any info to help support that the discoloration is caused by Copper surface enrichment due to Ni leaching? I remember reading that a few times on the various forums from people that I felt had credible chemistry/metallurgy backgrounds, but hate repeating it as "fact" without some confirmation.

    No, I don't.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have read all the inputs here and gone back over them.. including scrutiny of the pictures. I also have dug quarters with a similar appearance. After studying the picture in the OP, looking at other inputs (notably @Oldhoopster - which I can support from my own observations), I have come back to Fred's opinion of copper plating. The quarter just does not have the 'in ground' look I have often seen... the color is very uniform (would like to see the edges), not like soil corrosion. So I will vote with Fred on this one. Cheers, RickO

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Copper plated nickel?


  • Coin_nut1977Coin_nut1977 Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2021 9:03AM

    Sorry Its back to the bank. :). If it was worth more than face value I probably would of kept it. Note the edge was the same color around the whole quarter.

  • Coin_nut1977Coin_nut1977 Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2021 9:04AM

    I seen many quarters from the ground also didnt look the same to me. JMO

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,572 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Car wash change.

  • JonBrand83JonBrand83 Posts: 430 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You sure its not chocolate? :)

    Jbknifeandcoin.com

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