I can imagine if this forum had existed in 1857: "They are getting rid of the half cent and making the cent small???" But why, oh why? Now these merchants will rip us off and round off everything to the nearest cent. And that cent won't even have a cent's worth of copper, this world is going straight to hell!"
@Panda4456 said:
I think today the United States should discontinue the cent and nickel. We could possibly discontinue the dime and in a a year get rid of the quarter and half dollar.
We could start using dollar coins that we have in bank vaults. I’m sure that would last many years so the mint would never have to strike and more coins ever again.
By 2025 we will be a cashless society. Many countries already made it their initiative to be a cashless society by 2025. Most of the thriving Asian countries already use their phones to pay and have never touched coins/bills.
What do you think?
Which "thriving Asian countries" are you referring too?
I know Japan uses coins and they're the most thriving of all Asian countries.
China does too.
I'm not sure about South Korea though.
However I do know a lot of poorer countries in Africa are trying to go cashless due to them lacking the funds to mint coinage.
China, Vietnam Thailand don’t use cash anymore. Mostly everyone pays with apps like wechat. Philippines announced it will be cashless by 2025. Japan hasn’t been a thriving nation since the 80s
If the government was looking to save money (which they never do), it seems to me that the most expedient thing would be to stop printing $10 notes. I rarely get them in change, getting two $5's instead. Most ATM's dispense only $20's. I do not wish to be a cashless society as long as purchases can be traced. Keep the coins.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
I can imagine if this forum had existed in 1857: "They are getting rid of the half cent and making the cent small???" But why, oh why? Now these merchants will rip us off and round off everything to the nearest cent. And that cent won't even have a cent's worth of copper, this world is going straight to hell!"
It's worth pointing out that the 1/2 cent had more buying power when they got rid of it than the 1 cent has now.
I'm pretty sure the 1/2 cent had more buying power at that time than a dime does now. I think recently the 1/2 cent had a value of around 14 cents in today's money when it was done away with (don't quote me, I'm going off memory).
@Panda4456 said:
I think today the United States should discontinue the cent and nickel. We could possibly discontinue the dime and in a a year get rid of the quarter and half dollar.
We could start using dollar coins that we have in bank vaults. I’m sure that would last many years so the mint would never have to strike and more coins ever again.
By 2025 we will be a cashless society. Many countries already made it their initiative to be a cashless society by 2025. Most of the thriving Asian countries already use their phones to pay and have never touched coins/bills.
What do you think?
Which "thriving Asian countries" are you referring too?
I know Japan uses coins and they're the most thriving of all Asian countries.
China does too.
I'm not sure about South Korea though.
However I do know a lot of poorer countries in Africa are trying to go cashless due to them lacking the funds to mint coinage.
China, Vietnam Thailand don’t use cash anymore. Mostly everyone pays with apps like wechat. Philippines announced it will be cashless by 2025. Japan hasn’t been a thriving nation since the 80s
Vietnam, Thailand and Chine DO STILL USE CASH. While they are moving towards cashless faster than us, they are not cashless.
@BillJones said:
I don't favor doing away with any of them, not even the cent, if it is issued only for collectors. The cent as been a collector favorite for many years. It's not going to hurt anyone if the mint continues to include it in Proof and Mint sets.
I don't mind getting rid of the cent and the nickel, and replacing them with $2 and $5 coins.
I like cents and nickels, but, to me, coins should be for commerce first and foremost.
What makes you think that $2 and $5 coins will circulate? No one wants to carry big coins around and banks don't want to bother with the bigger coins. Actually, banks don't want to bother with any coins, They do it as a service.
@Zoins said:
And the cents and nickels could be replaced by $2 and $5 coins so there would be other coins to mint.
The American public has already shown that they don't want $1 coins, what evidence do you have to support the theory that the very same American public wants or will use $2 and/or $5 coins?
@Zoins said:
And the cents and nickels could be replaced by $2 and $5 coins so there would be other coins to mint.
The American public has already shown that they don't want $1 coins, what evidence do you have to support the theory that the very same American public wants or will use $2 and/or $5 coins?
If the one dollar bill is eliminated the one dollar coin would be used. But if we're moving to a cashless society coins of any kind won't be used much.
Based on some comments here it amazes me that countries that use the €1 and €2 coins, the CND$1 and CND$2 coins, and the £1 and £2 coins haven’t imploded yet. All those poor people forced to carry around so many coins, the poor banks who have to sort and distribute them, amazing they can still operate.
@rec78 said "What makes you think that $2 and $5 coins will circulate? No one wants to carry big coins around and banks don't want to bother with the bigger coins."
To make it work, the $2 and $5 coins would not be particularly big coins. Drawing on the EU and UK examples, the dollar coin might be like a very thick nickel. The $2 coin would be a thick quarter, and the $5 coin would about half dollar in size, but with some distinguishing features. The size and purchasing power of these coins would be similar to the coins we were using in the 1960s.
If we were to follow Japan, we would have just the $5 and the $1 coin, and skip the $2.
(In Japan, the 500 yen coin is about the size of a half dollar, but is worth $ 5, and it is a very convenient coin. Two of them will buy quite a quick delicious lunch in Tokyo!)
@Higashiyama said: @rec78 said "What makes you think that $2 and $5 coins will circulate? No one wants to carry big coins around and banks don't want to bother with the bigger coins."
To make it work, the $2 and $5 coins would not be particularly big coins. Drawing on the EU and UK examples, the dollar coin might be like a very thick nickel. The $2 coin would be a thick quarter, and the $5 coin would about half dollar in size, but with some distinguishing features. The size and purchasing power of these coins would be similar to the coins we were using in the 1960s.
If we were to follow Japan, we would have just the $5 and the $1 coin, and skip the $2.
(In Japan, the 500 yen coin is about the size of a half dollar, but is worth $ 5, and it is a very convenient coin. Two of them will buy quite a quick delicious lunch in Tokyo!)
Still, a thick coin means weight in your pocket. No one will want to carry them around. You say that the 500 yen coin is about the size of a half dollar. Half dollar sized coins do not circulate much in the US.
@rec78 said:
Still, a thick coin means weight in your pocket. No one will want to carry them around. You say that the 500 yen coin is about the size of a half dollar. Half dollar sized coins do not circulate much in the US.
Quarters do. And two quarters weigh the same as one half dollar.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Zoins said:
And the cents and nickels could be replaced by $2 and $5 coins so there would be other coins to mint.
The American public has already shown that they don't want $1 coins, what evidence do you have to support the theory that the very same American public wants or will use $2 and/or $5 coins?
If the one dollar bill is eliminated the one dollar coin would be used. But if we're moving to a cashless society coins of any kind won't be used much.
I doubt that very much, and its very easy for you to say that without providing one scrap of proof of concept. And no you cannot compare the US to a Europe or Asian country as the demographics are completely different.
@Higashiyama said:
Also, if a half dollar had ten times its current purchasing value, it might get considerably more use.
(think of all the very well-circulated Barbers and Walkers)
You all need to stop the apples to oranges comparisons, Barbers and Walkers circulated at a different time under different banking and consumer expectation conditions. Again where is your proof of concept that doing something that worked 100 years ago will work in today society. IT is very easy to sit behind your keyboard and type this but quite another to provide solid proof that what you want to see has any chance of actually working. What is proven is that the vast majority of US society does not like to use the $1 coin and that is proven as it does not circulate with any frequency. What several of you also don't get is that in order for your coin dreams to work several industries have to make major changes to hardware, all those coin acceptors in vending machines and subway stations (and other places) would have to be replaced with new hardware that would be able to read/accept these new coins of yours. And there are several hurdles to the bi-metallic composition when it comes to coin acceptors and their ability to accept something like that. Who is going to pay the millions that this will cost you?
@coinbuf - I totally agree that my comments reflect a significant degree of sentimentality and may very well not be realistic, especially as we are moving towards a cashless society.
However, the fact that high value coins circulate in Japan, Switzerland, the UK, and the EU at least provides some suggestion that they are not incompatible with a modern economy.
@MasonG said:
In the past year, how many times have you received a dollar coin as change in a cash transaction?
I'll start- I haven't received any.
How many would you have received if the government stopped the wasteful printing of paper dollars?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Cashless society ? i don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. Our society has to many other, much bigger problems that need addressed. I have a debit card which I do not use for retail purchases. Cash only. Haven't received a half dollar in change in years. Only time I've rec'd a Sac. is from a vending machine at a state run rest area on the Interstate of at the local post office. When I ( seldom ) see these two denominations used as payment in the retail setting, they just get put off to the side, not to be given out in change to the next customer. Just don't see changes coming anytime soon.
All US coins need to go. Cost is to high to justify minting. The majority of people today have smart phones with a wallet. Most people here don’t have a good understanding of Crypto and dislike changes from their long lost youth. I don’t think it’ll be in 4 years but a real possibility by 2031-2036. It wasn’t that long ago folks thought the idea of not having any checks for personal use or paychecks was a joke. Now just a guess but the majority of people today have their payroll checks auto deposited; never see checks anymore-
I'd get rid of the clad half dollar and only produce silver half dollars for commemoratives and silver sets. I'd also get rid of the nickel 5 cent piece and bring back the half dime. Currently a dime costs 3 cents to produce, a half dime with the same diameter as 1837-1873 using the same clad composition would probably cost less than 3 cents to produce, bringing down the cost of producing a 5 cent piece to less than 5 cents. I'd also eliminate the penny for circulation and keep a copper version for proof and mint sets only.
@HashTag said:
All US coins need to go. Cost is to high to justify minting. The majority of people today have smart phones with a wallet. Most people here don’t have a good understanding of Crypto and dislike changes from their long lost youth. I don’t think it’ll be in 4 years but a real possibility by 2031-2036. It wasn’t that long ago folks thought the idea of not having any checks for personal use or paychecks was a joke. Now just a guess but the majority of people today have their payroll checks auto deposited; never see checks anymore-
I'm 17. i understand crypto just fine. Crypto is HIGHLY voiitle.
Here is a comparison (to a US quarter) of coins that are widely used in other major economies:
The value of each coin (from left to right), compared to a quarter, is roughly 2x, 4x, 20x, 4x, 8x, 11x.
As the US dollar has lost value, we have not kept up by adjusting our coinage. We are perhaps in a kind of denial, unwilling to accept that fact that our coinage has lost tremendous purchasing power and is becoming less and less useful to commerce.
I'd go with 2 1/2 cents (dime size real copper), 10 cents (cent size nickel metal) & 50 cents (a bit smaller than a quarter)
3 denominations of change is enough.
@jmlanzaf said: "But what was the alternative to Barbers & Walkers? There was no paper equivalent and not digital equivalent."
Yes, that's a fair point; I'm definitely not suggesting that we will or should go back to that era; I'm just pointing out that there are many modern economies where coins with significant value circulate widely. (and, in the fairly recent past, circulating coins had much more value, e.g., enough to buy lunch with a few coins from your pocket)
@Higashiyama said: @jmlanzaf said: "But what was the alternative to Barbers & Walkers? There was no paper equivalent and not digital equivalent."
Yes, that's a fair point; I'm definitely not suggesting that we will or should go back to that era; I'm just pointing out that there are many modern economies where coins with significant value circulate widely. (and, in the fairly recent past, circulating coins had much more value, e.g., enough to buy lunch with a few coins from your pocket)
True.
But I imagine all advanced modern economies are gradually moving towards cashless commerce. I mean, if Vietnam can do it, what European country would be unable to accomplish it?
Comments
I can imagine if this forum had existed in 1857: "They are getting rid of the half cent and making the cent small???" But why, oh why? Now these merchants will rip us off and round off everything to the nearest cent. And that cent won't even have a cent's worth of copper, this world is going straight to hell!"
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
China, Vietnam Thailand don’t use cash anymore. Mostly everyone pays with apps like wechat. Philippines announced it will be cashless by 2025. Japan hasn’t been a thriving nation since the 80s
If the government was looking to save money (which they never do), it seems to me that the most expedient thing would be to stop printing $10 notes. I rarely get them in change, getting two $5's instead. Most ATM's dispense only $20's. I do not wish to be a cashless society as long as purchases can be traced. Keep the coins.
It's worth pointing out that the 1/2 cent had more buying power when they got rid of it than the 1 cent has now.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
I'm pretty sure the 1/2 cent had more buying power at that time than a dime does now. I think recently the 1/2 cent had a value of around 14 cents in today's money when it was done away with (don't quote me, I'm going off memory).
I would say we just abolish sales taxes -
Their economy can't fall from ground level.
If you went cashless, there wouldn't be $2 and $5 coins either.
https://my-thai.org/thailand-the-cashless-society/
https://bangkokpost.com/tech/1656140/more-thais-see-cashless-future
Vietnam, Thailand and Chine DO STILL USE CASH. While they are moving towards cashless faster than us, they are not cashless.
https://aseantoday.com/2018/02/thailand-could-go-cashless-within-three-years/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbirch/2020/08/18/cashless-does-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means/
None
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
What makes you think that $2 and $5 coins will circulate? No one wants to carry big coins around and banks don't want to bother with the bigger coins. Actually, banks don't want to bother with any coins, They do it as a service.
The American public has already shown that they don't want $1 coins, what evidence do you have to support the theory that the very same American public wants or will use $2 and/or $5 coins?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I've heard of "Rocket Science" and "Brain Surgery" but never "Rocket Surgery." 🚀🛠👩🚀
If the one dollar bill is eliminated the one dollar coin would be used. But if we're moving to a cashless society coins of any kind won't be used much.
I don’t know where it came from, but I like to say “it’s not rocket surgery” too.
I wish I could buy gas where I live for $2.29 9/10 per gallon.
Move to CA. We round it up to an even $3.29...no 1/10th cent here.
Lance.
Based on some comments here it amazes me that countries that use the €1 and €2 coins, the CND$1 and CND$2 coins, and the £1 and £2 coins haven’t imploded yet. All those poor people forced to carry around so many coins, the poor banks who have to sort and distribute them, amazing they can still operate.
@rec78 said "What makes you think that $2 and $5 coins will circulate? No one wants to carry big coins around and banks don't want to bother with the bigger coins."
To make it work, the $2 and $5 coins would not be particularly big coins. Drawing on the EU and UK examples, the dollar coin might be like a very thick nickel. The $2 coin would be a thick quarter, and the $5 coin would about half dollar in size, but with some distinguishing features. The size and purchasing power of these coins would be similar to the coins we were using in the 1960s.
If we were to follow Japan, we would have just the $5 and the $1 coin, and skip the $2.
(In Japan, the 500 yen coin is about the size of a half dollar, but is worth $ 5, and it is a very convenient coin. Two of them will buy quite a quick delicious lunch in Tokyo!)
I think small $2.50, $5.00 and maybe $10 bi-metallic coins might work. Our coins are too low in value to work.
bring back the half cent
Still, a thick coin means weight in your pocket. No one will want to carry them around. You say that the 500 yen coin is about the size of a half dollar. Half dollar sized coins do not circulate much in the US.
Digital is coming.
Don't need any of it.
Quarters do. And two quarters weigh the same as one half dollar.
Just sayin'.
Also, if a half dollar had ten times its current purchasing value, it might get considerably more use.
(think of all the very well-circulated Barbers and Walkers)
Bitcoins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I doubt that very much, and its very easy for you to say that without providing one scrap of proof of concept. And no you cannot compare the US to a Europe or Asian country as the demographics are completely different.
You all need to stop the apples to oranges comparisons, Barbers and Walkers circulated at a different time under different banking and consumer expectation conditions. Again where is your proof of concept that doing something that worked 100 years ago will work in today society. IT is very easy to sit behind your keyboard and type this but quite another to provide solid proof that what you want to see has any chance of actually working. What is proven is that the vast majority of US society does not like to use the $1 coin and that is proven as it does not circulate with any frequency. What several of you also don't get is that in order for your coin dreams to work several industries have to make major changes to hardware, all those coin acceptors in vending machines and subway stations (and other places) would have to be replaced with new hardware that would be able to read/accept these new coins of yours. And there are several hurdles to the bi-metallic composition when it comes to coin acceptors and their ability to accept something like that. Who is going to pay the millions that this will cost you?
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
@coinbuf - I totally agree that my comments reflect a significant degree of sentimentality and may very well not be realistic, especially as we are moving towards a cashless society.
However, the fact that high value coins circulate in Japan, Switzerland, the UK, and the EU at least provides some suggestion that they are not incompatible with a modern economy.
In the past year, how many times have you received a dollar coin as change in a cash transaction?
I'll start- I haven't received any.
I have received many coins in change with a value equal or greater that a dollar!
How many would you have received if the government stopped the wasteful printing of paper dollars?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Cashless society ? i don't think I'll see it in my lifetime. Our society has to many other, much bigger problems that need addressed. I have a debit card which I do not use for retail purchases. Cash only. Haven't received a half dollar in change in years. Only time I've rec'd a Sac. is from a vending machine at a state run rest area on the Interstate of at the local post office. When I ( seldom ) see these two denominations used as payment in the retail setting, they just get put off to the side, not to be given out in change to the next customer. Just don't see changes coming anytime soon.
All US coins need to go. Cost is to high to justify minting. The majority of people today have smart phones with a wallet. Most people here don’t have a good understanding of Crypto and dislike changes from their long lost youth. I don’t think it’ll be in 4 years but a real possibility by 2031-2036. It wasn’t that long ago folks thought the idea of not having any checks for personal use or paychecks was a joke. Now just a guess but the majority of people today have their payroll checks auto deposited; never see checks anymore-
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/date-sets/hashtags-prefect-coin-grading-service-1879/album/7621
Go away. We do not want to abolish coins. How tf we gonna get new collectors in if we don't make coins.
I'd get rid of the clad half dollar and only produce silver half dollars for commemoratives and silver sets. I'd also get rid of the nickel 5 cent piece and bring back the half dime. Currently a dime costs 3 cents to produce, a half dime with the same diameter as 1837-1873 using the same clad composition would probably cost less than 3 cents to produce, bringing down the cost of producing a 5 cent piece to less than 5 cents. I'd also eliminate the penny for circulation and keep a copper version for proof and mint sets only.
I'm 17. i understand crypto just fine. Crypto is HIGHLY voiitle.
Here is a comparison (to a US quarter) of coins that are widely used in other major economies:
The value of each coin (from left to right), compared to a quarter, is roughly 2x, 4x, 20x, 4x, 8x, 11x.
As the US dollar has lost value, we have not kept up by adjusting our coinage. We are perhaps in a kind of denial, unwilling to accept that fact that our coinage has lost tremendous purchasing power and is becoming less and less useful to commerce.
I'd go with 2 1/2 cents (dime size real copper), 10 cents (cent size nickel metal) & 50 cents (a bit smaller than a quarter)
3 denominations of change is enough.
My Saint Set
But what was the alternative to Barbers & Walkers? There was no paper equivalent and not digital equivalent.
@jmlanzaf said: "But what was the alternative to Barbers & Walkers? There was no paper equivalent and not digital equivalent."
Yes, that's a fair point; I'm definitely not suggesting that we will or should go back to that era; I'm just pointing out that there are many modern economies where coins with significant value circulate widely. (and, in the fairly recent past, circulating coins had much more value, e.g., enough to buy lunch with a few coins from your pocket)
True.
But I imagine all advanced modern economies are gradually moving towards cashless commerce. I mean, if Vietnam can do it, what European country would be unable to accomplish it?
Just no.
Yeah, just what we need, cashiers trying to figure out 1/2 cent change.
No more coins? Where will we get the (manufactured?) error coins from.