what would you pay? re-strike of Oregon gold $5 and $10 coin made of native gold-original dies?

Clackamas1

If you could buy a re-strike from the original dies what would you pay for one?

Crypto

A small premium over spot

BillJones

No.

Halfpence

If I were from Oregon, I'd pay a premium. Your target customer would be locals who have an interest in OR mining history.

jabba

They tried it once not same dies

Clackamas1

@Halfpence said:
If I were from Oregon, I'd pay a premium. Your target customer would be locals who have an interest in OR mining history. > @Crypto said:
A small premium over spot

So an Au55 sold for $340K and you think $1200 would be fair for a re-srtike- is that correct?

TurtleCat

Might be neat at spot or a bit above. Same if there was a set with Georgia and NC gold with the same territorial gold designs before those branch mints.

Clackamas1

@jabba said:
They tried it once not same dies

WOW thanks for the link and info.

CaptHenway

Gack!

Clackamas1

@CaptHenway said:
Gack!

Umm it's 'Clack' /s

SIowhand

I’d pay $295 for one today.

Clackamas1

@SIowhand said:
I’d pay $295 for one today.

yeah not what I was looking to hear. I would pay that with an extra zero from a legit original die restrike.

davewesen

Are you considering making some or what? Do you have the dies?
Gold is high right now, I would probably be willing to pay $40 for one in copper.

johnny9434

No way

Zoins

@Clackamas1 said:

@SIowhand said:
I’d pay $295 for one today.

yeah not what I was looking to hear. I would pay that with an extra zero from a legit original die restrike.

Are you selling or buying?

cccoins

The only thing that I can think that’s close to it are the seven 1855 Kellogg original dies restrikes struck in 2001. I would estimate them at $40,000 to $60,000.

For the Oregon restrikes, with original dies, I would want to know the die condition and the number made. For a guaranteed run quantity of 10 or less of the $10’s, I would guess $10,000 to $20,000. For the $5’s, $5,000 to $10,000.

The more that are made, the less that they are worth. I would want some transparent provenance work for the dies, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

Clackamas1

@davewesen said:
Are you considering making some or what? Do you have the dies?
Gold is high right now, I would probably be willing to pay $40 for one in copper.

Copper is too hard for the original dies. I don't have the dies - the Oregon historical society has the dies. they are real and I have held them - the thought was use the original dies as a fundraiser. The OHS is hurting for money.

Clackamas1

@cccoins said:
The only thing that I can think that’s close to it are the seven 1855 Kellogg original dies restrikes struck in 2001. I would estimate them at $40,000 to $60,000.

For the Oregon restrikes, with original dies, I would want to know the die condition and the number made. For a guaranteed run quantity of 10 or less of the $10’s, I would guess $10,000 to $20,000. For the $5’s, $5,000 to $10,000.

The more that are made, the less that they are worth. I would want some transparent provenance work for the dies, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

So - at what point, e.g. how many are struck, do they lose the luster of rarity? Original dies - with native gold not refined - just like they did in 1849. I am thinking 100 per denom - raise some real money - not just fun and kicks.

Clackamas1

@cccoins said:

, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

you are not going to get that - think about drug addicts. If you can make a cool mil in 2021 - why not make 500K in 202X. They are never going to sign off on a 1 and done if they make the bomb.

Bochiman

I'd ask @Lakesammman that question....

Zoins

@cccoins said:
The only thing that I can think that’s close to it are the seven 1855 Kellogg original dies restrikes struck in 2001. I would estimate them at $40,000 to $60,000.

For the Oregon restrikes, with original dies, I would want to know the die condition and the number made. For a guaranteed run quantity of 10 or less of the $10’s, I would guess $10,000 to $20,000. For the $5’s, $5,000 to $10,000.

The more that are made, the less that they are worth. I would want some transparent provenance work for the dies, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

I don't think you can ever get proof the strikes are permanently limited unless the dies are destroyed or donated to a museum like the Smithsonian.

Other than that, the next best thing you can get for limits is if the dies are damaged (e.g. shattered) or cancelled so that future restrikes are easy to identify.

My understanding is that future restrikes of the 1855 Kellogg slugs could still be made in the future.

Zoins

@Clackamas1 said:

@davewesen said:
Are you considering making some or what? Do you have the dies?
Gold is high right now, I would probably be willing to pay $40 for one in copper.

Copper is too hard for the original dies. I don't have the dies - the Oregon historical society has the dies. they are real and I have held them - the thought was use the original dies as a fundraiser. The OHS is hurting for money.

@Clackamas1 said:

@cccoins said:
The only thing that I can think that’s close to it are the seven 1855 Kellogg original dies restrikes struck in 2001. I would estimate them at $40,000 to $60,000.

For the Oregon restrikes, with original dies, I would want to know the die condition and the number made. For a guaranteed run quantity of 10 or less of the $10’s, I would guess $10,000 to $20,000. For the $5’s, $5,000 to $10,000.

The more that are made, the less that they are worth. I would want some transparent provenance work for the dies, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

So - at what point, e.g. how many are struck, do they lose the luster of rarity? Original dies - with native gold not refined - just like they did in 1849. I am thinking 100 per denom - raise some real money - not just fun and kicks.

I'd be a bit concerned about the condition of the dies. I've seen old dies fall apart when doing restrikes.

You may want to consider doing a few restrikes with the original dies but many more "restrikes" with copy dies such as done with the 1855 Kellogg Slugs.

Clackamas1

@Zoins said:

@Clackamas1 said:

@davewesen said:
Are you considering making some or what? Do you have the dies?
Gold is high right now, I would probably be willing to pay $40 for one in copper.

Copper is too hard for the original dies. I don't have the dies - the Oregon historical society has the dies. they are real and I have held them - the thought was use the original dies as a fundraiser. The OHS is hurting for money.

@Clackamas1 said:

@cccoins said:
The only thing that I can think that’s close to it are the seven 1855 Kellogg original dies restrikes struck in 2001. I would estimate them at $40,000 to $60,000.

For the Oregon restrikes, with original dies, I would want to know the die condition and the number made. For a guaranteed run quantity of 10 or less of the $10’s, I would guess $10,000 to $20,000. For the $5’s, $5,000 to $10,000.

The more that are made, the less that they are worth. I would want some transparent provenance work for the dies, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

So - at what point, e.g. how many are struck, do they lose the luster of rarity? Original dies - with native gold not refined - just like they did in 1849. I am thinking 100 per denom - raise some real money - not just fun and kicks.

I'd be a bit concerned about the condition of the dies. I've seen old dies fall apart when doing restrikes.

You may want to consider doing a few restrikes with the original dies but many more "restrikes" with copy dies such as done with the 1855 Kellogg Slugs.

your are probably right - I am just re imagining this baby.

Zoins

How much money does the Oregon Historical Society need to raise?

It would be neat if they moved into The Dalles Mint building but I'm not sure how practical that would be given the location. I'm guessing being located in Portland would be better for the society than the Dalles.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987291/have-you-ever-visited-the-dalles-mint

Clackamas1

@Zoins said:
How much money does the Oregon Historical Society need to raise?

Good question - all of it would be my answer. I have been on five boards of non profits, still on two and the # 1 issue is raising revenue.

fathom

Wow very cool that they still exist.

Significant Pioneer gold history there. Limited restrikes with the originals and do copy dies is a good idea. I don't know how marketable they are though.

If they need revenue now they could auction one denom die set, would raise some serious cash I would think.

ricko

No doubt there would be a limited market, however, I do not think the market is wide enough to even cover the investment necessary for such a venture. Cheers, RickO

Zoins

@ricko said:
No doubt there would be a limited market, however, I do not think the market is wide enough to even cover the investment necessary for such a venture. Cheers, RickO

You’d need a serious marketing effort like done with the California Historical Society 1855 Kellogg slugs.

MedalCollector

Yes, sell the dies!

Zoins

If the dies are to be considered for sale, I'd contact Kagin's for information on worth.

But from a pure fund raising perspective, I think it may be better to keep the dies and make replicas like the Smithsonian is doing. The Smithsonian gets to keep their collection of rarities while also making revenue and not reducing or damaging their holdings. Selling the dies is a one time thing while selling the replicas is the gift that keeps on giving.

There are a lot of organizations making good money by selling modern replicas that don't use original dies or any original material, including The Smithsonian, The Paris Mint, and Limited Mintage among others. From what we see here, you just seem to need good marketing and ideally great modern sculptors. Check out the following thread about new Libertas Americana medals being made by Intaglio Mint as Limited Mintage:

• Libertas Americana: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1049713/new-libertas-americana-medal-from-intaglio#latest
• More Listings: https://limitedmintage.com/product-category/intaglio-mint/modern-tribute-collection/

thefinn

I think Dan Carr did some pieces in gold using a die that Lakesammman owned a few years back. Seems it was an Oregon $10 die.

coinsarefun

@thefinn said:
I think Dan Carr did some pieces in gold using a die that Lakesammman owned a few years back. Seems it was an Oregon $10 die.

.
.
Yes.
.

scubafuel

Those dies are extremely valuable and historic. Running the risk of destroying them for a “fundraiser” sounds like something the army corps of engineers would think up.

Clackamas1

@scubafuel said:
Those dies are extremely valuable and historic. Running the risk of destroying them for a “fundraiser” sounds like something the army corps of engineers would think up.
@fathom said:
Wow very cool that they still exist.

Significant Pioneer gold history there. Limited restrikes with the originals and do copy dies is a good idea. I don't know how marketable they are though.

If they need revenue now they could auction one denom die set, would raise some serious cash I would think.

Part of this may be quite selfish.

Zoins

If they really wanted to sell the dies, they could put them on Stack's Bowers like the Historical Society of Pennsylvania did with the William Sphon Baker collection of Washingtonia just over a year ago. In that situation, the society needed to raise funds but they also didn't feel the holdings were providing value to their collection.

Clackamas1

@Zoins said:
If they really wanted to sell the dies, they could put them on Stack's Bowers like the Historical Society of Pennsylvania did with the William Sphon Baker collection of Washingtonia just over a year ago. In that situation, the society needed to raise funds but they also didn't feel the holdings were providing value to their collection.

I am sure they don't want to sell the dies - who would? Covid really hurt the budget, heck BLM came in and destroyed the first floor so cash is king now.

cccoins

I would imagine that for a quick fundraiser, it would be easier to sell 1,000 to 2,000 items at $59 to $100 each, than 10 items at $10,000 each. I would make a commemorative silver medallion with the $5 on a 1/2 oz, and $10 on a 1 oz silver round. Sell the $5’s for $50/60 each and the $10’s for $100 each. I am sure that you can find a mint to do this for you.

If you are serious, and truly representing the Oregon historical society, you could reach our to the Nevada state museum and they could give you great guidance on how they do their fundraisers, with expected quantities, etc. The only difference is that they have a less and you don’t.

Zoins

@cccoins said:
The only thing that I can think that’s close to it are the seven 1855 Kellogg original dies restrikes struck in 2001. I would estimate them at $40,000 to $60,000.

For the Oregon restrikes, with original dies, I would want to know the die condition and the number made. For a guaranteed run quantity of 10 or less of the $10’s, I would guess $10,000 to $20,000. For the $5’s, $5,000 to $10,000.

The more that are made, the less that they are worth. I would want some transparent provenance work for the dies, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

Good info. I heard one of the 1855 Kellogg restrikes sold for $70k.

Zoins

@Clackamas1 said:

@cccoins said:
The only thing that I can think that’s close to it are the seven 1855 Kellogg original dies restrikes struck in 2001. I would estimate them at $40,000 to $60,000.

For the Oregon restrikes, with original dies, I would want to know the die condition and the number made. For a guaranteed run quantity of 10 or less of the $10’s, I would guess $10,000 to $20,000. For the $5’s, $5,000 to $10,000.

The more that are made, the less that they are worth. I would want some transparent provenance work for the dies, and some from of proof that the strikes were permanently limited to a known quantity.

So - at what point, e.g. how many are struck, do they lose the luster of rarity? Original dies - with native gold not refined - just like they did in 1849. I am thinking 100 per denom - raise some real money - not just fun and kicks.

Any update on this @Clackamas1?

It's been almost a year since this thread started and it is an interesting idea.

Zoins

@Clackamas1 said:

@davewesen said:
Are you considering making some or what? Do you have the dies?
Gold is high right now, I would probably be willing to pay $40 for one in copper.

Copper is too hard for the original dies. I don't have the dies - the Oregon historical society has the dies. they are real and I have held them - the thought was use the original dies as a fundraiser. The OHS is hurting for money.

I wonder how much would need to be raised for this to be interesting.

And also if some amount could be guaranteed to be raised by a program like Kickstarter?

Zoins

@jabba said:
They tried it once not same dies

Anyone know the people behind this operation, the Eastern Oregon Mining Association and Baker Gold and Silver?

Zoins

Here's the website for the Eastern Oregon Mining Association (EOMA):

http://www.h2oaccess.com/about.php

EASTERN OREGON MINING ASSOCIATION
PO BOX 932
BAKER CITY, OR 97814

ABOUT THE EASTERN OREGON MINING ASSOCIATION

The Eastern Oregon Mining Association (EOMA) is a non-profit organization representing and advocating the role of mining in the Pacific Northwest. Our membership is primarily made up of small mine operators, prospectors, and many others interested in mining, minerals, environment and the outdoors.

EOMA is dedicated to the preservation of American mineral independence and proper stewardship of the environment. Headquartered in Baker City, Oregon, our members range from the Cascades to the Rockies and from Washington to Nevada -- as well as many others throughout the nation. We routinely provide assistance to Oregon state agencies in mining matters, and are at the forefront of policy making and consultation on multiple use and environmental matters. We are a grass-roots organization over 350 strong and growing steadily.

Here's some info on Baker Gold & Silver from the company profile on ScrapMonser.com:

https://www.scrapmonster.com/company/baker-gold-silver/60208

It looks like they are still in business and founded by Terry Karp and Garry McLin. Anyone know them?

Baker Gold & Silver
1812 Main St.
Baker City, Oregon 97814-3449

Terry Karp and Garry McLin the founders of Baker Gold and Silver met over 30 years ago while waiting for the local coin shop, which kept irregular hours, to open. Both being avid coin collectors, they developed a friendship and decided that Baker City needed a dependable shop that would keep regular hours and serve the needs of Baker County’s collectors and investors. They opened the doors to Baker Gold and Silver in 1981 and have been continuously and dependably serving the people of Baker City and surrounding areas since that time. Although the locations of Baker Gold and Silver have changed as they continued to grow and expand, the basic tenets of the shop have never been compromised, that is to offer high quality merchandise at competitive prices in a relaxed and friendly atmosphere. For several years Terry operated a minting business inside the store. Terry crafted and minted the coins for the Baker Bucks program in 2009. He also minted coins for the Oregon Trail Interpretive Center, the Baker City Miner’s Jubilee and several out of town gift shops including Multnomah Falls, the Columbia Gorge Discovery Center at The Dalles Oregon and the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville Oregon home of Howard Hughes’ famous “Spruce Goose.” When Keiko the famous killer whale was in the Oregon Coast Aquarium Karp minted 30,000 coins featuring the whale. Through the years they have dabbled in Beanie Babies, Baseball Cards, and Black Hills Gold Jewelry, without compromising their basic tenet to provide dependable, reliable service to collectors and investors in rare coins and precious metals.

keets

Clack, judging only from the tenor of the replies I would think that you have been given the "boot" from the COT!! this place is brutal and quite often the responses given are based on who asked the question and not a reasoned consideration of the question itself. I hear Bob Dylan warming up!!

jabba

The original dies are in the OHS archives I don’t know of any original dies privately owned

ZoidMeister

Best $6 token I've bought in a while .

Z
.

.

.

cameonut2011

Melt

DCW

So how were the Dcarr tokens made, with transfer does?

pmh1nic

I'm not sure there would be enough interest to warrant a restrike in gold especially given the size on a $5 or $10 would be small compared to the fifty cent silver. And it's not like the originals are scarce.

ZoidMeister

I would be very interested . . . .

Being able to afford is a different conversation . . .

Z

jabba

@DCW said:
So how were the Dcarr tokens made, with transfer does?

The Carr Strikes where after hours made with dies that where for the 10 anniversary of the Oregon numismatic society token they just used the center of the dies member Lakesammman had those original dies he went to moon light and did some private strikes and re-strikes including a very limited number of gold strikes

lkenefic

Interesting post... personally, I'd only be looking at the gold value, maybe a small premium above melt. To a numismatic historian looking at that era of coinage, obviously much more, but how many of those individuals exist? And what are the start up costs for such an endeavor...