@MKUltra24 said:
I was thinking of sending mine in for a CAC sticker because it looks like it’s a better quality F-12 than a lot of others I’ve seen.
Welcome. Nice dollar! It certainly looks solid for the grade and I am surprised it doesn't already have a sticker. Submission to CAC seems like a "no-brainer."
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
This forum: "I’m new to coin collecting and this forum..."
CoinTalk forum: "Seasoned and well-known collector..."
Even with the shenanigans, neat old Bust dollar. I do like the photo you took over on the other forums better than the one you shared here, though. Looks more natural.
This forum: "I’m new to coin collecting and this forum..."
CoinTalk forum: "Seasoned and well-known collector..."
Even with the shenanigans, neat old Bust dollar. I do like the photo you took over on the other forums better than the one you shared here, though. Looks more natural.
I assure you I did NOT write anything calling myself a “Seasoned and well-known collector”.
In fact I don’t even think I would ever use a description like that for anyone.
As for the photos: The ones I shared here were the photos NGC took.
The photos I share on the other forum were photos I took with my iPhone.
I just felt like the NGC photos showed more of the silvery color instead of just a mud brown color like my photos.
Regarding a CAC certification, my guess is no. Prominent scratch and old cleaning (like most big old silver excepting Morgan’s). It’s worth a try at some point.
What cleaning? It hasn’t been cleaned at all.
If it had been cleaned NGC would’ve noted that when they graded the coin no?
If it had been cleaned NGC would’ve noted that when they graded the coin no?
Zoom in and see the hair above the ears and forehead area—likely a wipe from many many years ago. Yes, the services will still slab some coins with very old, but not distracting, light cleanings.
Regarding a CAC certification, my guess is no. Prominent scratch and old cleaning (like most big old silver excepting Morgan’s). It’s worth a try at some point.
What cleaning? It hasn’t been cleaned at all.
If it had been cleaned NGC would’ve noted that when they graded the coin no?
There are a fair number of “cleaned” coins that are straight graded by the the big two which are considered to be market acceptable.
Regarding a CAC certification, my guess is no. Prominent scratch and old cleaning (like most big old silver excepting Morgan’s). It’s worth a try at some point.
What cleaning? It hasn’t been cleaned at all.
If it had been cleaned NGC would’ve noted that when they graded the coin no?
There are a fair number of “cleaned” coins that are straight graded by the the big two which are considered to be market acceptable.
If it had been cleaned NGC would’ve noted that when they graded the coin no?
Zoom in and see the hair above the ears and forehead area—likely a wipe from many many years ago. Yes, the services will still slab some coins with very old, but not distracting, light cleanings.
Aww man WTF?!
If I had known it was a cleaned problem coin I wouldn’t have bought it!
I’m pretty sure a good looking coin with a market acceptable old light wipe isn’t a “problem coin”. There are different standards for different coins and series. Your coin is still awesome and there’s nothing to worry about or curse the grader over.
Talk to the really old copper collectors. They know what I’m talking about better than I do.
@ShaunBC5 said:
I’m pretty sure a good looking coin with a market acceptable old light wipe isn’t a “problem coin”. There are different standards for different coins and series. Your coin is still awesome and there’s nothing to worry about or curse the grader over.
Talk to the really old copper collectors. They know what I’m talking about better than I do.
I just didn’t know is all. When I bought it I saw “F 12” so I just figured it wasn’t cleaned due to not having the “Cleaned” designation.
What do you mean when you say “market acceptable”?
With toning and old cleanings and even environmental damage on old copper, there are things that matter and things that don’t.
Normal people used to clean money in the course of it’s use (paper and metal). The wipe that was pointed out is minor and not viewed as an attempt to modify the condition of the coin, so the market accepts that it’s there, but it’s OK.
Whizzing will never be market acceptable because it’s cheating and an attempt to fool a buyer. The old. Leaning on your coin probably happened before it was done even circulating. Some scratches are cool, some are graffiti.
@ShaunBC5 said:
With toning and old cleanings and even environmental damage on old copper, there are things that matter and things that don’t.
Normal people used to clean money in the course of it’s use (paper and metal). The wipe that was pointed out is minor and not viewed as an attempt to modify the condition of the coin, so the market accepts that it’s there, but it’s OK.
Whizzing will never be market acceptable because it’s cheating and an attempt to fool a buyer. The old. Leaning on your coin probably happened before it was done even circulating. Some scratches are cool, some are graffiti.
Ahh ok gotchya!
So cleaning is only bad when it’s done to try to fool someone into believing the coin is in better condition than it really is?
Whereas very old light cleaning was just part of being in circulation so it doesn’t matter as much?
@ShaunBC5 said:
It’s probably more nuanced than that, but YES, that’s what I’m getting at.
Im guessing though coins could be interpreted as “cleaned” even when the owner never intentionally cleaned them?
For example: If I’m a cowboy in the 1800s and I have a Morgan Dollar in the pocket of my Levi Jeans. Wouldn’t the natural friction of the denim rubbing against the coin over and over leave the coin looking cleaned or polished?
This forum: "I’m new to coin collecting and this forum..."
CoinTalk forum: "Seasoned and well-known collector..."
Even with the shenanigans, neat old Bust dollar. I do like the photo you took over on the other forums better than the one you shared here, though. Looks more natural.
I assure you I did NOT write anything calling myself a “Seasoned and well-known collector”.
In fact I don’t even think I would ever use a description like that for anyone.
As for the photos: The ones I shared here were the photos NGC took.
The photos I share on the other forum were photos I took with my iPhone.
I just felt like the NGC photos showed more of the silvery color instead of just a mud brown color like my photos.
Was your birthday yesterday (01/09)?
If not, the wrong guy.
@ShaunBC5 said:
It’s probably more nuanced than that, but YES, that’s what I’m getting at.
Im guessing though coins could be interpreted as “cleaned” even when the owner never intentionally cleaned them?
For example: If I’m a cowboy in the 1800s and I have a Morgan Dollar in the pocket of my Levi Jeans. Wouldn’t the natural friction of the denim rubbing against the coin over and over leave the coin looking cleaned or polished?
No. Natural friction through the day-in-day-out of circulation amounts to “wear” not cleaning. An intentional “wipe” or cleaning is done to remove a blemish or otherwise improve the appearance of the coin. Or to remove toning or brighten the coin or make its surfaces appear more uniform in color.
“Dipped” coins (to remove toning/accumulated dirt), when the dip doesn’t badly impair the natural luster, is also often considered market acceptable, and vast numbers of white coins have been dipped and are still straight graded by the services.
@ShaunBC5 said:
I’m pretty sure a good looking coin with a market acceptable old light wipe isn’t a “problem coin”. There are different standards for different coins and series. Your coin is still awesome and there’s nothing to worry about or curse the grader over.
Talk to the really old copper collectors. They know what I’m talking about better than I do.
I just didn’t know is all. When I bought it I saw “F 12” so I just figured it wasn’t cleaned due to not having the “Cleaned” designation.
What do you mean when you say “market acceptable”?
@rec78 said:
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
@ShaunBC5 said:
That’s a sweet coin and a great way to make an entrance.
Congrats on the great pick up and having the combination of budget and patience to grab a coin like that!
I’m afraid I possess neither, but maybe one day
Thanks Shaun!
Lol I had to wait until I went to Tahoe on vacation so that I could drive an hour from there to Carson City and buy this thing. They’re right across the street from the Carson City Mint building which is cool.
@rec78 said:
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
Welcome to the Board. That's heckuva coin for your first post. As a new collector, that's also a gargantuan jump from Morgans and numismatic gold bullion ... at least it's certified and graded properly (market acceptable). Many newbies here have done far worse.
The good news ... you may have just caught the "early Bust coinage fever." And ... it's a nice coin, no doubt, and based on what you disclosed on CoinTalk, you paid a fair retail price.
The bad news ... you really should put on the brakes and learn more before you take any more chances on high dollars coins in collecting areas new to you.
No offense intended, but your responses to some of the earlier posts indicate significant surprise at some fundamentals of collecting Bust material. Namely, "cleaned" coins get graded and placed in top TPG holders. That's the market.
Have the dealer from whom you purchased the coin, educate you. They are good folks and will likely want you to be a better informed collector (because that translates into more business).
Consider examining coins with CAC stickers as those will help you get a better handle on what many believe are "high end" for the grade, with an emphasis on original surfaces. This is much more important with Bust material than later coinage, IMO.
Good luck and stick around. There is lots of knowledge here and minimal trash.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
No alt, alternative or spare accounts. One account per member, no exceptions.
Before we run this new member off, let’s consider whether the policy means:
only one user name on all coin forums; or
Only one user name on the PCGS forum.
I vote the later, and would defend his right to have two unique user names on two different forums provided that he only uses one on each site.
Finally, the well-known member tag looks like a forum thing, as other users have the same denotation. It feels like everyone is quick to find fault in the new guys on this forum. Of course that helps to generate the regular is the hobby shrinking threads.
No alt, alternative or spare accounts. One account per member, no exceptions.
Before we run this new member off, let’s consider whether the policy means:
only one user name on all coin forums; or
Only one user name on the PCGS forum.
I vote the later, and would defend his right to have two unique user names on two different forums provided that he only uses one on each site.
Finally, the well-known member tag looks like a forum thing, as other users have the same denotation. It feels like everyone is quick to find fault in the new guys on this forum. Of course that helps to generate the regular is the hobby shrinking threads.
This is what I believe is his first of two accounts on the PCGS forum. They had the same profile picture before the PCGS account was changed. He was heavily criticized on his first account which is why I believe he created a second.
I'm not trying to drive off new guys. I'm a YN and believe that there should be more people in the hobby but think that everybody should be following the rules.
Collector 75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting! instagram.com/klnumismatics
No alt, alternative or spare accounts. One account per member, no exceptions.
Before we run this new member off, let’s consider whether the policy means:
only one user name on all coin forums; or
Only one user name on the PCGS forum.
I vote the later, and would defend his right to have two unique user names on two different forums provided that he only uses one on each site.
Finally, the well-known member tag looks like a forum thing, as other users have the same denotation. It feels like everyone is quick to find fault in the new guys on this forum. Of course that helps to generate the regular is the hobby shrinking threads.
This is what I believe is his first of two accounts on the PCGS forum. They had the same profile picture before the PCGS account was changed. He was heavily criticized on his first account which is why I believe he created a second.
I'm not trying to drive off new guys. I'm a YN and believe that there should be more people in the hobby but think that everybody should be following the rules.
Actually I already talked to a moderator about this.
After sending the moderator screenshots of the threats & harrassment I was being bombarded with on my old account they agreed I could make a new account IF I agreed to no longer post on the old account.
If you think something is against the rules you have every right to report it.
But you do NOT have the right to “expose” someone who is simply trying to avoid being threatened and harassed and as such put that person back at risk of further harrassment & threats.
A moderator told me it was OK to do and that’s the end of this discussion.
Now I just pray that the threats & harrassment don’t continue or I’ll have no choice but to make another account and I really do NOT want to do that.
No alt, alternative or spare accounts. One account per member, no exceptions.
Before we run this new member off, let’s consider whether the policy means:
only one user name on all coin forums; or
Only one user name on the PCGS forum.
I vote the later, and would defend his right to have two unique user names on two different forums provided that he only uses one on each site.
Finally, the well-known member tag looks like a forum thing, as other users have the same denotation. It feels like everyone is quick to find fault in the new guys on this forum. Of course that helps to generate the regular is the hobby shrinking threads.
I talked to a forum Moderator a week ago and after sending screenshots to him/her showing that I was being not just harassed but actually threatened as well the Moderator allowed me to make a new account under the condition that I didn’t post on my old account anymore.
The moderator also told me it would be a good idea to come into the forum fresh to avoid being re-targeted by the same people who had been harassing & threatening me on my old account.
But unfortunately people on here decided that they wanted to play “investigator” which may result in me being further harassed & threatened and I really didn’t want to have to make ANOTHER account but I may have too if the threats & harrassment come to this account.
I have a right to participate on this forum without having to fear for my life and that right takes precedent over someone else’s right to play “Investigator”.
No alt, alternative or spare accounts. One account per member, no exceptions.
A moderator’s permission to do something overrides whatever the rules say.
If a moderator asks me for screenshots showing I’m being harassed & threatened and I send them and they allow me to make a new account it doesn’t matter what the rules say about making new accounts.
A moderator’s word is final and thus when a moderator gave me permission to make a new account (as long as I stopped posting on my old account) they were exempting me from that rule due to the circumstances.
Let’s just hope the harrassment & threats don’t continue because I hate making new accounts but I will if I have to in order to avoid fearing for my safety & my life.
@rec78 said:
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
Welcome to the Board. That's heckuva coin for your first post. As a new collector, that's also a gargantuan jump from Morgans and numismatic gold bullion ... at least it's certified and graded properly (market acceptable). Many newbies here have done far worse.
The good news ... you may have just caught the "early Bust coinage fever." And ... it's a nice coin, no doubt, and based on what you disclosed on CoinTalk, you paid a fair retail price.
The bad news ... you really should put on the brakes and learn more before you take any more chances on high dollars coins in collecting areas new to you.
No offense intended, but your responses to some of the earlier posts indicate significant surprise at some fundamentals of collecting Bust material. Namely, "cleaned" coins get graded and placed in top TPG holders. That's the market.
Have the dealer from whom you purchased the coin, educate you. They are good folks and will likely want you to be a better informed collector (because that translates into more business).
Consider examining coins with CAC stickers as those will help you get a better handle on what many believe are "high end" for the grade, with an emphasis on original surfaces. This is much more important with Bust material than later coinage, IMO.
Good luck and stick around. There is lots of knowledge here and minimal trash.
Thanks for the info
I’m trying to learn as much as I can but there’s just so much to learn.
When I bought the 1799 DBD I just looked at Greysheet & Red Book & Blue Book prices and I saw that they had it priced less than the Red Book retail prices so I figured it was a decent deal.
So far most of my time has been spent learning about Morgan Dollars and bank notes.
I admit I don’t know much about Bust coinage but I will try my best to learn what I can.
I’ve bought several books and read a couple so far but I still have a long way to go.
@rec78 said:
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
Welcome to the Board. That's heckuva coin for your first post. As a new collector, that's also a gargantuan jump from Morgans and numismatic gold bullion ... at least it's certified and graded properly (market acceptable). Many newbies here have done far worse.
The good news ... you may have just caught the "early Bust coinage fever." And ... it's a nice coin, no doubt, and based on what you disclosed on CoinTalk, you paid a fair retail price.
The bad news ... you really should put on the brakes and learn more before you take any more chances on high dollars coins in collecting areas new to you.
No offense intended, but your responses to some of the earlier posts indicate significant surprise at some fundamentals of collecting Bust material. Namely, "cleaned" coins get graded and placed in top TPG holders. That's the market.
Have the dealer from whom you purchased the coin, educate you. They are good folks and will likely want you to be a better informed collector (because that translates into more business).
Consider examining coins with CAC stickers as those will help you get a better handle on what many believe are "high end" for the grade, with an emphasis on original surfaces. This is much more important with Bust material than later coinage, IMO.
Good luck and stick around. There is lots of knowledge here and minimal trash.
Thanks for the info
I’m trying to learn as much as I can but there’s just so much to learn.
When I bought the 1799 DBD I just looked at Greysheet & Red Book & Blue Book prices and I saw that they had it priced less than the Red Book retail prices so I figured it was a decent deal.
So far most of my time has been spent learning about Morgan Dollars and bank notes.
I admit I don’t know much about Bust coinage but I will try my best to learn what I can.
I’ve bought several books and read a couple so far but I still have a long way to go.
Excellent start. The John Reich Collectors Society is a great resource.
No alt, alternative or spare accounts. One account per member, no exceptions.
Before we run this new member off, let’s consider whether the policy means:
only one user name on all coin forums; or
Only one user name on the PCGS forum.
I vote the later, and would defend his right to have two unique user names on two different forums provided that he only uses one on each site.
Finally, the well-known member tag looks like a forum thing, as other users have the same denotation. It feels like everyone is quick to find fault in the new guys on this forum. Of course that helps to generate the regular is the hobby shrinking threads.
This is what I believe is his first of two accounts on the PCGS forum. They had the same profile picture before the PCGS account was changed. He was heavily criticized on his first account which is why I believe he created a second.
I'm not trying to drive off new guys. I'm a YN and believe that there should be more people in the hobby but think that everybody should be following the rules.
Actually I already talked to a moderator about this.
After sending the moderator screenshots of the threats & harrassment I was being bombarded with on my old account they agreed I could make a new account IF I agreed to no longer post on the old account.
If you think something is against the rules you have every right to report it.
But you do NOT have the right to “expose” someone who is simply trying to avoid being threatened and harassed and as such put that person back at risk of further harrassment & threats.
A moderator told me it was OK to do and that’s the end of this discussion.
Now I just pray that the threats & harrassment don’t continue or I’ll have no choice but to make another account and I really do NOT want to do that.
I didn't realize this. My apologies on my comment above.
Nice coin BTW.
Collector 75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting! instagram.com/klnumismatics
No alt, alternative or spare accounts. One account per member, no exceptions.
Before we run this new member off, let’s consider whether the policy means:
only one user name on all coin forums; or
Only one user name on the PCGS forum.
I vote the later, and would defend his right to have two unique user names on two different forums provided that he only uses one on each site.
Finally, the well-known member tag looks like a forum thing, as other users have the same denotation. It feels like everyone is quick to find fault in the new guys on this forum. Of course that helps to generate the regular is the hobby shrinking threads.
This is what I believe is his first of two accounts on the PCGS forum. They had the same profile picture before the PCGS account was changed. He was heavily criticized on his first account which is why I believe he created a second.
I'm not trying to drive off new guys. I'm a YN and believe that there should be more people in the hobby but think that everybody should be following the rules.
Actually I already talked to a moderator about this.
After sending the moderator screenshots of the threats & harrassment I was being bombarded with on my old account they agreed I could make a new account IF I agreed to no longer post on the old account.
If you think something is against the rules you have every right to report it.
But you do NOT have the right to “expose” someone who is simply trying to avoid being threatened and harassed and as such put that person back at risk of further harrassment & threats.
A moderator told me it was OK to do and that’s the end of this discussion.
Now I just pray that the threats & harrassment don’t continue or I’ll have no choice but to make another account and I really do NOT want to do that.
I didn't realize this. My apologies on my comment above.
Nice coin BTW.
I apologize if I came off harsh but dealing with all of that was extremely difficult for me and I’m terrified of it beginning again.
@rec78 said:
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
Welcome to the Board. That's heckuva coin for your first post. As a new collector, that's also a gargantuan jump from Morgans and numismatic gold bullion ... at least it's certified and graded properly (market acceptable). Many newbies here have done far worse.
The good news ... you may have just caught the "early Bust coinage fever." And ... it's a nice coin, no doubt, and based on what you disclosed on CoinTalk, you paid a fair retail price.
The bad news ... you really should put on the brakes and learn more before you take any more chances on high dollars coins in collecting areas new to you.
No offense intended, but your responses to some of the earlier posts indicate significant surprise at some fundamentals of collecting Bust material. Namely, "cleaned" coins get graded and placed in top TPG holders. That's the market.
Have the dealer from whom you purchased the coin, educate you. They are good folks and will likely want you to be a better informed collector (because that translates into more business).
Consider examining coins with CAC stickers as those will help you get a better handle on what many believe are "high end" for the grade, with an emphasis on original surfaces. This is much more important with Bust material than later coinage, IMO.
Good luck and stick around. There is lots of knowledge here and minimal trash.
Thanks for the info
I’m trying to learn as much as I can but there’s just so much to learn.
When I bought the 1799 DBD I just looked at Greysheet & Red Book & Blue Book prices and I saw that they had it priced less than the Red Book retail prices so I figured it was a decent deal.
So far most of my time has been spent learning about Morgan Dollars and bank notes.
I admit I don’t know much about Bust coinage but I will try my best to learn what I can.
I’ve bought several books and read a couple so far but I still have a long way to go.
Excellent start. The John Reich Collectors Society is a great resource.
I also wanted to mention that one thing I like about NNC is that they have a code on the sticker they put on the back of the slab that tells you how much they as dealers paid for it.
For example this one says ADXX
A = 1
D = 4
X = 0
X = 0
So they paid $1400 for it and priced it at $1560.
But I paid $1460 for it (since I paid in cash) so I figure it had to have been a good deal if I only paid $60 more than the dealer did on a coin valued over $1K.
Even though I don’t know much about DBDs I was still able to see it was a fair deal due to the financial history of the coin in terms of what a dealer was paying and selling it for.
@rec78 said:
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
Welcome to the Board. That's heckuva coin for your first post. As a new collector, that's also a gargantuan jump from Morgans and numismatic gold bullion ... at least it's certified and graded properly (market acceptable). Many newbies here have done far worse.
The good news ... you may have just caught the "early Bust coinage fever." And ... it's a nice coin, no doubt, and based on what you disclosed on CoinTalk, you paid a fair retail price.
The bad news ... you really should put on the brakes and learn more before you take any more chances on high dollars coins in collecting areas new to you.
No offense intended, but your responses to some of the earlier posts indicate significant surprise at some fundamentals of collecting Bust material. Namely, "cleaned" coins get graded and placed in top TPG holders. That's the market.
Have the dealer from whom you purchased the coin, educate you. They are good folks and will likely want you to be a better informed collector (because that translates into more business).
Consider examining coins with CAC stickers as those will help you get a better handle on what many believe are "high end" for the grade, with an emphasis on original surfaces. This is much more important with Bust material than later coinage, IMO.
Good luck and stick around. There is lots of knowledge here and minimal trash.
Thanks for the info
I’m trying to learn as much as I can but there’s just so much to learn.
When I bought the 1799 DBD I just looked at Greysheet & Red Book & Blue Book prices and I saw that they had it priced less than the Red Book retail prices so I figured it was a decent deal.
So far most of my time has been spent learning about Morgan Dollars and bank notes.
I admit I don’t know much about Bust coinage but I will try my best to learn what I can.
I’ve bought several books and read a couple so far but I still have a long way to go.
Excellent start. The John Reich Collectors Society is a great resource.
I also wanted to mention that one thing I like about NNC is that they have a code on the sticker they put on the back of the slab that tells you how much they as dealers paid for it.
For example this one says ADXX
A = 1
D = 4
X = 0
X = 0
So they paid $1400 for it and priced it at $1560.
But I paid $1460 for it (since I paid in cash) so I figure it had to have been a good deal if I only paid $60 more than the dealer did on a coin valued over $1K.
Even though I don’t know much about DBDs I was still able to see it was a fair deal due to the financial history of the coin in terms of what a dealer was paying and selling it for.
If that makes sense?
I won't comment on what a seller claims as their "cost" or how a "cost" is formulated. I will offer some advice. Don't buy a coin simply based on what you believe is a dealer's cost. Learn the market for the coin and pay what you believe is a good price. There are plenty of coins out there sold in retail shops for under "wholesale" prices.
There ain't no Santa Claus in numismatics.
Keep on that learning curve!
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
@rec78 said:
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
Welcome to the Board. That's heckuva coin for your first post. As a new collector, that's also a gargantuan jump from Morgans and numismatic gold bullion ... at least it's certified and graded properly (market acceptable). Many newbies here have done far worse.
The good news ... you may have just caught the "early Bust coinage fever." And ... it's a nice coin, no doubt, and based on what you disclosed on CoinTalk, you paid a fair retail price.
The bad news ... you really should put on the brakes and learn more before you take any more chances on high dollars coins in collecting areas new to you.
No offense intended, but your responses to some of the earlier posts indicate significant surprise at some fundamentals of collecting Bust material. Namely, "cleaned" coins get graded and placed in top TPG holders. That's the market.
Have the dealer from whom you purchased the coin, educate you. They are good folks and will likely want you to be a better informed collector (because that translates into more business).
Consider examining coins with CAC stickers as those will help you get a better handle on what many believe are "high end" for the grade, with an emphasis on original surfaces. This is much more important with Bust material than later coinage, IMO.
Good luck and stick around. There is lots of knowledge here and minimal trash.
Thanks for the info
I’m trying to learn as much as I can but there’s just so much to learn.
When I bought the 1799 DBD I just looked at Greysheet & Red Book & Blue Book prices and I saw that they had it priced less than the Red Book retail prices so I figured it was a decent deal.
So far most of my time has been spent learning about Morgan Dollars and bank notes.
I admit I don’t know much about Bust coinage but I will try my best to learn what I can.
I’ve bought several books and read a couple so far but I still have a long way to go.
Excellent start. The John Reich Collectors Society is a great resource.
I also wanted to mention that one thing I like about NNC is that they have a code on the sticker they put on the back of the slab that tells you how much they as dealers paid for it.
For example this one says ADXX
A = 1
D = 4
X = 0
X = 0
So they paid $1400 for it and priced it at $1560.
But I paid $1460 for it (since I paid in cash) so I figure it had to have been a good deal if I only paid $60 more than the dealer did on a coin valued over $1K.
Even though I don’t know much about DBDs I was still able to see it was a fair deal due to the financial history of the coin in terms of what a dealer was paying and selling it for.
If that makes sense?
I won't comment on what a seller claims as their "cost" or how a "cost" is formulated. I will offer some advice. Don't buy a coin simply based on what you believe is a dealer's cost. Learn the market for the coin and pay what you believe is a good price. There are plenty of coins out there sold in retail shops for under "wholesale" prices.
There ain't no Santa Claus in numismatics.
Keep on that learning curve!
Yeah I know what you mean.
I just meant that it was an additional piece of information that I used along with price guides.
The more information someone has about something the more educated they can be with their purchase.
NNC is a big time coin dealer with millions of dollars worth of coins so I feel confident trusting them.
There is a lady named Lisa that works there and we’ve built up a rapport as I always buy through her so she always gets the commission for the sale and in exchange she gives me the best price possible without me having to haggle since I suck at haggling xD.
It is sad the OP was threatened and harassed to a degree it was necessary to open a new identity. I'm a bit perplexed why those harassing and threatening members were allowed to continue to do so and why their account(s) were not limited or banned.
In the meantime, that is a terrific looking dollar and would/should make anyone proud to own.
Welcome (back) to the community.
Comments
Beautiful coin! Welcome to the forums, and to this amazing hobby!
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Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
very nice !! congratulations !!!
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Welcome. Nice dollar! It certainly looks solid for the grade and I am surprised it doesn't already have a sticker. Submission to CAC seems like a "no-brainer."
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I’ve seen that coin in-hand. It’s a nice one, perhaps the lightest of wipes long long ago. Congrats and welcome. 🤠
This forum: "I’m new to coin collecting and this forum..."
CoinTalk forum: "Seasoned and well-known collector..."
Even with the shenanigans, neat old Bust dollar. I do like the photo you took over on the other forums better than the one you shared here, though. Looks more natural.
That one is easy on the eye. Congrats on the score
It’s hard not to like 18th century Federal issues. Cool coin!
I assure you I did NOT write anything calling myself a “Seasoned and well-known collector”.
In fact I don’t even think I would ever use a description like that for anyone.
As for the photos: The ones I shared here were the photos NGC took.
The photos I share on the other forum were photos I took with my iPhone.
I just felt like the NGC photos showed more of the silvery color instead of just a mud brown color like my photos.
What cleaning? It hasn’t been cleaned at all.
If it had been cleaned NGC would’ve noted that when they graded the coin no?
Zoom in and see the hair above the ears and forehead area—likely a wipe from many many years ago. Yes, the services will still slab some coins with very old, but not distracting, light cleanings.
There are a fair number of “cleaned” coins that are straight graded by the the big two which are considered to be market acceptable.
Aww man WTF?!
If I had known it was a cleaned problem coin I wouldn’t have bought it!
Why would NGC do something like that??
I’m pretty sure a good looking coin with a market acceptable old light wipe isn’t a “problem coin”. There are different standards for different coins and series. Your coin is still awesome and there’s nothing to worry about or curse the grader over.
Talk to the really old copper collectors. They know what I’m talking about better than I do.
I just didn’t know is all. When I bought it I saw “F 12” so I just figured it wasn’t cleaned due to not having the “Cleaned” designation.
What do you mean when you say “market acceptable”?
With toning and old cleanings and even environmental damage on old copper, there are things that matter and things that don’t.
Normal people used to clean money in the course of it’s use (paper and metal). The wipe that was pointed out is minor and not viewed as an attempt to modify the condition of the coin, so the market accepts that it’s there, but it’s OK.
Whizzing will never be market acceptable because it’s cheating and an attempt to fool a buyer. The old. Leaning on your coin probably happened before it was done even circulating. Some scratches are cool, some are graffiti.
Ahh ok gotchya!
So cleaning is only bad when it’s done to try to fool someone into believing the coin is in better condition than it really is?
Whereas very old light cleaning was just part of being in circulation so it doesn’t matter as much?
It’s probably more nuanced than that, but YES, that’s what I’m getting at.
Im guessing though coins could be interpreted as “cleaned” even when the owner never intentionally cleaned them?
For example: If I’m a cowboy in the 1800s and I have a Morgan Dollar in the pocket of my Levi Jeans. Wouldn’t the natural friction of the denim rubbing against the coin over and over leave the coin looking cleaned or polished?
Was your birthday yesterday (01/09)?
If not, the wrong guy.
No. Natural friction through the day-in-day-out of circulation amounts to “wear” not cleaning. An intentional “wipe” or cleaning is done to remove a blemish or otherwise improve the appearance of the coin. Or to remove toning or brighten the coin or make its surfaces appear more uniform in color.
“Dipped” coins (to remove toning/accumulated dirt), when the dip doesn’t badly impair the natural luster, is also often considered market acceptable, and vast numbers of white coins have been dipped and are still straight graded by the services.
Awesome coin! Welcome to the forums!
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Straight graded.
You're a newbee collector? Starting out with bust dollars?? Wow! Now that's impressive!!
Welcome to the forum
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Welcome to the forum, did someone say post early dollars? I love the die crack on the reverse of this one.
Best, SH
SH View
Thanks!
It’s not my very first coin I have some Morgan Dollars and some pre-1933 gold coins but this is my first big purchase that didn’t have a large intrinsic value due to being made of gold like my other coins.
Oooh that one is NICE! O_O
Wayyy nicer than mine xD
Great eye, thats a nice looking bust dollar. Nice pick up. Welcome to the forum.
Here's their shop... and the Mint.
Welcome to the Board. That's heckuva coin for your first post. As a new collector, that's also a gargantuan jump from Morgans and numismatic gold bullion ... at least it's certified and graded properly (market acceptable). Many newbies here have done far worse.
The good news ... you may have just caught the "early Bust coinage fever." And ... it's a nice coin, no doubt, and based on what you disclosed on CoinTalk, you paid a fair retail price.
The bad news ... you really should put on the brakes and learn more before you take any more chances on high dollars coins in collecting areas new to you.
No offense intended, but your responses to some of the earlier posts indicate significant surprise at some fundamentals of collecting Bust material. Namely, "cleaned" coins get graded and placed in top TPG holders. That's the market.
Have the dealer from whom you purchased the coin, educate you. They are good folks and will likely want you to be a better informed collector (because that translates into more business).
Consider examining coins with CAC stickers as those will help you get a better handle on what many believe are "high end" for the grade, with an emphasis on original surfaces. This is much more important with Bust material than later coinage, IMO.
Good luck and stick around. There is lots of knowledge here and minimal trash.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
It's also against the forum rules.
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Before we run this new member off, let’s consider whether the policy means:
I vote the later, and would defend his right to have two unique user names on two different forums provided that he only uses one on each site.
Finally, the well-known member tag looks like a forum thing, as other users have the same denotation. It feels like everyone is quick to find fault in the new guys on this forum. Of course that helps to generate the regular is the hobby shrinking threads.
This is what I believe is his first of two accounts on the PCGS forum. They had the same profile picture before the PCGS account was changed. He was heavily criticized on his first account which is why I believe he created a second.
https://forums.collectors.com/profile/Gam3rBlake
I'm not trying to drive off new guys. I'm a YN and believe that there should be more people in the hobby but think that everybody should be following the rules.
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
Sheesh, not too shabby for being new to collecting.
I’ve been at it for a decade and don’t own anything quite that high end!
Actually I already talked to a moderator about this.
After sending the moderator screenshots of the threats & harrassment I was being bombarded with on my old account they agreed I could make a new account IF I agreed to no longer post on the old account.
If you think something is against the rules you have every right to report it.
But you do NOT have the right to “expose” someone who is simply trying to avoid being threatened and harassed and as such put that person back at risk of further harrassment & threats.
A moderator told me it was OK to do and that’s the end of this discussion.
Now I just pray that the threats & harrassment don’t continue or I’ll have no choice but to make another account and I really do NOT want to do that.
I talked to a forum Moderator a week ago and after sending screenshots to him/her showing that I was being not just harassed but actually threatened as well the Moderator allowed me to make a new account under the condition that I didn’t post on my old account anymore.
The moderator also told me it would be a good idea to come into the forum fresh to avoid being re-targeted by the same people who had been harassing & threatening me on my old account.
But unfortunately people on here decided that they wanted to play “investigator” which may result in me being further harassed & threatened and I really didn’t want to have to make ANOTHER account but I may have too if the threats & harrassment come to this account.
I have a right to participate on this forum without having to fear for my life and that right takes precedent over someone else’s right to play “Investigator”.
A moderator’s permission to do something overrides whatever the rules say.
If a moderator asks me for screenshots showing I’m being harassed & threatened and I send them and they allow me to make a new account it doesn’t matter what the rules say about making new accounts.
A moderator’s word is final and thus when a moderator gave me permission to make a new account (as long as I stopped posting on my old account) they were exempting me from that rule due to the circumstances.
Let’s just hope the harrassment & threats don’t continue because I hate making new accounts but I will if I have to in order to avoid fearing for my safety & my life.
Thanks for the info
I’m trying to learn as much as I can but there’s just so much to learn.
When I bought the 1799 DBD I just looked at Greysheet & Red Book & Blue Book prices and I saw that they had it priced less than the Red Book retail prices so I figured it was a decent deal.
So far most of my time has been spent learning about Morgan Dollars and bank notes.
I admit I don’t know much about Bust coinage but I will try my best to learn what I can.
I’ve bought several books and read a couple so far but I still have a long way to go.
Excellent start. The John Reich Collectors Society is a great resource.
https://jrcs.org
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I didn't realize this. My apologies on my comment above.
Nice coin BTW.
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
I apologize if I came off harsh but dealing with all of that was extremely difficult for me and I’m terrified of it beginning again.
Thank you for your understanding.
Thanks I’ll definitely check that out!
I also wanted to mention that one thing I like about NNC is that they have a code on the sticker they put on the back of the slab that tells you how much they as dealers paid for it.
For example this one says ADXX
A = 1
D = 4
X = 0
X = 0
So they paid $1400 for it and priced it at $1560.
But I paid $1460 for it (since I paid in cash) so I figure it had to have been a good deal if I only paid $60 more than the dealer did on a coin valued over $1K.
Even though I don’t know much about DBDs I was still able to see it was a fair deal due to the financial history of the coin in terms of what a dealer was paying and selling it for.
If that makes sense?
Congrats on your new purchase, that's a nice looking bust dollar.
Thanks mate!
Next I would like to get a Flowing Hair Dollar in low grade.
My red book says I can get a low grade 1795 one for a reasonable price but I just have to find a dealer selling one.
I won't comment on what a seller claims as their "cost" or how a "cost" is formulated. I will offer some advice. Don't buy a coin simply based on what you believe is a dealer's cost. Learn the market for the coin and pay what you believe is a good price. There are plenty of coins out there sold in retail shops for under "wholesale" prices.
There ain't no Santa Claus in numismatics.
Keep on that learning curve!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Yeah I know what you mean.
I just meant that it was an additional piece of information that I used along with price guides.
The more information someone has about something the more educated they can be with their purchase.
NNC is a big time coin dealer with millions of dollars worth of coins so I feel confident trusting them.
There is a lady named Lisa that works there and we’ve built up a rapport as I always buy through her so she always gets the commission for the sale and in exchange she gives me the best price possible without me having to haggle since I suck at haggling xD.
Thanks!
I’m the kind of collector who enjoys picking up a few expensive coins per year rather than lots of cheaper coins.
Not saying there is anything wrong with that it’s just my own personal preference.
Like if I bought an entire collection of Jefferson nickels none of them would be very special to me.
But if I used all that money to pick up 1 very nice coin it would be so much more special to me due to how long I had to save to get it.
Idk if that makes sense to others but to me it does. 😂
Whoa! Great info @Jeffnlu! Alt identity blown!
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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It is sad the OP was threatened and harassed to a degree it was necessary to open a new identity. I'm a bit perplexed why those harassing and threatening members were allowed to continue to do so and why their account(s) were not limited or banned.
In the meantime, that is a terrific looking dollar and would/should make anyone proud to own.
Welcome (back) to the community.
👿