PCGS "First Strike" vs "First Day of Issue"

goldenboy101

I spoke to a PCGS rep asking to change my label to FDOI from FS. I was told FDOI label is reserved only for companies that send coins over in bulk, ie >100. She said there is no way I can get the FDOI label on my coin. Is this true?

JonJet

The designations are different...and I would assume the PCGS Rep cited the pertinent rule...

The PCGS First Strike program designates coins issued in the first 30* days of the Mint's release. This designation not only adds value to modern coins, but takes modern coin collecting to another level with multiple Mint releases each year.

Coins with a “First Day Of Issue” or “Early Release” designation always demand a higher premium. In order to secure yourself a “First Day Of Issue”, you must purchase your coin already graded as FDOI

The FDOI Label is ONLY given to coins submitted directly from the US Mint to PCGS thru the purchasing program that only Dealers can be a part of

You cannot submit a coin Yourself and get the FDOI designation in any way - shape - form - method - fashion - manner or style

So the difference being...if Your coin was not purchased as an FDOI - Your coin submission does not meet the criteria for FDOI

goldenboy101

I purchased the coin on the first day of issue. Overall my experience with PCGS has been pretty poor. Difficult to contact via phone or email, misinformation, etc. I wanted them to relabel it while they still had the item in hand. Now I'm responsible for shipping it back to them and waiting another 5 wks for "express" service?

WAYNEAS

@JonJet said:
The designations are different...and I would assume the PCGS Rep cited the pertinent rule...

The PCGS First Strike program designates coins issued in the first 30* days of the Mint's release. This designation not only adds value to modern coins, but takes modern coin collecting to another level with multiple Mint releases each year.

Coins with a “First Day Of Issue” or “Early Release” designation always demand a higher premium. In order to secure yourself a “First Day Of Issue”, you must purchase your coin on the day it is released from one of the United States Mint locations.

So the difference being...if Your coin was not proven to have been purchased on the date the US Mint released the coin...You coin does not meet the criteria for FDOI

However...if Your coin was presented to PCGS for grading within 30* days of issue...it would qualify for the First Strike label...which it seems to have

Provide proof of purchase from the US Mint on Issue Day and You'll have reason to request the label change...

Otherwise...the FS label is the best You can get

as "Joe Friday" would say "just the facts mam, just the facts"
nicely answered

goldenboy101

@JonJet said:
The designations are different...and I would assume the PCGS Rep cited the pertinent rule...

The PCGS First Strike program designates coins issued in the first 30* days of the Mint's release. This designation not only adds value to modern coins, but takes modern coin collecting to another level with multiple Mint releases each year.

Coins with a “First Day Of Issue” or “Early Release” designation always demand a higher premium. In order to secure yourself a “First Day Of Issue”, you must purchase your coin on the day it is released from one of the United States Mint locations.

So the difference being...if Your coin was not proven to have been purchased on the date the US Mint released the coin...You coin does not meet the criteria for FDOI

However...if Your coin was presented to PCGS for grading within 30* days of issue...it would qualify for the First Strike label...which it seems to have

Provide proof of purchase from the US Mint on Issue Day and You'll have reason to request the label change...

Otherwise...the FS label is the best You can get

Thanks for the response. Can you cite where you found this information? I don't see it on the PCGS website. I spoke to the rep again and they said I should email them where I'm finding this.

WAYNEAS

@goldenboy101 said:

Thanks for the response. Can you cite where you found this information? I don't see it on the PCGS website. I spoke to the rep again and they said I should email them where I'm finding this.

https://www.pcgs.com/firststrike
and for FDOI look down to the middle of the page to see requirements, ignore that this is for a particulate series coin. It applies to all FDOI coins!
https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-revises-guidance-for-first-day-of-issue-presidential-dollars

goldenboy101

@WAYNEAS said:

@goldenboy101 said:

Thanks for the response. Can you cite where you found this information? I don't see it on the PCGS website. I spoke to the rep again and they said I should email them where I'm finding this.

https://www.pcgs.com/firststrike
and for FDOI look down to the middle of the page to see requirements, ignore that this is for a particulate series coin. It applies to all FDOI coins!
https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-revises-guidance-for-first-day-of-issue-presidential-dollars

It mentions FDOI is available for bulk submissions in the link you sent. I had a single coin submission. So this means I'm excluded or do you see something that can help me? Thanks

JonJet

@goldenboy101 said:

@JonJet said:
The designations are different...and I would assume the PCGS Rep cited the pertinent rule...

The PCGS First Strike program designates coins issued in the first 30* days of the Mint's release. This designation not only adds value to modern coins, but takes modern coin collecting to another level with multiple Mint releases each year.

Coins with a “First Day Of Issue” or “Early Release” designation always demand a higher premium. In order to secure yourself a “First Day Of Issue”, you must purchase your coin on the day it is released from one of the United States Mint locations.

So the difference being...if Your coin was not proven to have been purchased on the date the US Mint released the coin...You coin does not meet the criteria for FDOI

However...if Your coin was presented to PCGS for grading within 30* days of issue...it would qualify for the First Strike label...which it seems to have

Provide proof of purchase from the US Mint on Issue Day and You'll have reason to request the label change...

Otherwise...the FS label is the best You can get

Thanks for the response. Can you cite where you found this information? I don't see it on the PCGS website. I spoke to the rep again and they said I should email them where I'm finding this.

Google results

Goldminers

I suggest that you believe PCGS and accept the fact it will not get graded FDOI unless submitted in bulk.

wondercoin

PCGS does a great job overall maintaining the integrity of their FS and FDI labels. Chris, who runs bulk, takes great pains in ensuring all of the rules are followed meticulously on these designations. I know this first hand!

Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

goldbuffalo

FDOI is just another way for PCGS to screw the little guy and cater to the Dealers.

If a coin sells out on the First day, then they are ALL FDOI

They just couldn't handle that FS was for everyone.

DisneyFan

Buy the label, not the coin?

mrcommem

Does it really make any difference? They are still just bullion coins.

0ronron

@mrcommem said:
Does it really make any difference? They are still just bullion coins.

It does matter to some collectors to have a certain label on their coins, I myself have paid a premium for a bullion coin because it has a label 1 of 1, making it more desirable IMO. Yes, they are just "bullion coins" but as with any collection, we like to collect what we like to collect.....
I say collect the coin and label if thats what you desire...

wondercoin

‘Does it really make any difference? They are still just bullion coins.’’

It sometimes makes a HUGE difference especially (to some) since the method of payment for them is typically JUST paper US Dollars worth less and less most years due to inflation. This past year, a lot less!

Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

mrcommem

@wondercoin said:
‘Does it really make any difference? They are still just bullion coins.’’

It sometimes makes a HUGE difference especially (to some) since the method of payment for them is typically JUST paper US Dollars worth less and less most years due to inflation. This past year, a lot less!

Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

If you want to buy bullion coins, get bullion coins, not this First Strike, First Day Issue non-sense. This plastic in this case means nothing when you go to sell them at the bullion dealer.

0ronron

@mrcommem said:

@wondercoin said:
‘Does it really make any difference? They are still just bullion coins.’’

It sometimes makes a HUGE difference especially (to some) since the method of payment for them is typically JUST paper US Dollars worth less and less most years due to inflation. This past year, a lot less!

Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

If you want to buy bullion coins, get bullion coins, not this First Strike, First Day Issue non-sense. This plastic in this case means nothing when you go to sell them at the bullion dealer.

Yes, to a bullion dealer, they are just bullion
But, for another collector looking to complete a specific set
There is a difference..
Just like opinions..

There is no sense in putting someone down because they like to collect certain items. It is their money and they can choose to do what they want with it....IMO..

wondercoin

MrCommem- have you ever tried walking into a coin shop with a handful of rare date Morgans (or super high quality key date classic Commems or key date classic gold coins for that matter), dropped them on the counter raw from your baggie and asked them for their best price? Who would be that foolish?

Same person to offer their highly prized FS 70 material to a bullion dealer? Maybe drop both groups on the table and see which group gets the best return from the bullion dealer? Perhaps try the Pawn shop down the street next for a comp price before selling everything that way?

Wondercoin

wondercoin

‘’There is no sense in putting someone down because they like to collect certain items. It is their money and they can choose to do what they want with it....IMO..”

0ronron- 13-14 years ago, I bought for a young infant born in 2006 a set of proof gold and proof platinum 70 grade eagles for her birth year. I suggested to her Dad to pay the 20% or so extra to get the 8 coins in PR70 first strike holders. Today, the 2 sets in 70 grade (3.7 total ozs) are worth around $7,500. But, her 70FS sets are worth at least $25,000-$30,000+. I even know of one “bullion dealer” right now that would buy them in a heartbeat for the $27,000.

PCGS FIRST STRIKE - ‘‘It’s what collectors want”.

Wondercoin.

larry_ellison

So -----> How is it possible for a label to have First Strike and First Day of Issue both on it? I have a couple of First Strike Flag labels on standard holders with my ASE's that bear the First Day of Issue as well. I've tried to get an explanation on this so naturally when I saw this thread I thought I'd ask here. Thanks in advance for the responses.

larry_ellison

Here is one I have as an example.

MetroD

@larry_ellison

I encountered something similar a couple of years ago. Had the same question as you. So, I called PCGS 'customer service'.

Was told that the 'FS/FDI' label was a "design" that had been requested by a bulk submitter. Just like the "black shield" in your example.

If you verify the cert number on your coin, it SHOULD indicate FDI in the variety field.

larry_ellison

I did just that when I got it and it does in fact display the First Day of Issue. If I had to give a logical explanation to the meaning behind the label though I would say it was one of the first 30 sold on the first day of issue. Sounds good to me anyway.

MetroD

@larry_ellison said:
I did just that when I got it and it does in fact display the First Day of Issue. If I had to give a logical explanation to the meaning behind the label though I would say it was one of the first 30 sold on the first day of issue. Sounds good to me anyway.

Not my understanding. Per the explanation I received from 'customer service', I believe that it is a FDI coin with non-standard "design" elements on the label. These "design" elements include being printed on a FS label, and the addition of a "black shield". IOW, the bulk submitter simply requested a unique label "design" for a FDI coin, and PCGS obliged.

FWIW, PCGS tends to issue a lot of different labels for modern releases. Take your coin (i.e., 2018-W Burnished ASE, base coin #675870). If I count correctly, there are 70 unique 'coin numbers/labels' for this coin. Examples include: Mercanti Signature, Liberty Picture Frame, Art Deco, and 1st Coin.

Reference

Edited for clarity.

DisneyFan

@wondercoin said:
‘’There is no sense in putting someone down because they like to collect certain items. It is their money and they can choose to do what they want with it....IMO..”

0ronron- 13-14 years ago, I bought for a young infant born in 2006 a set of proof gold and proof platinum 70 grade eagles for her birth year. I suggested to her Dad to pay the 20% or so extra to get the 8 coins in PR70 first strike holders. Today, the 2 sets in 70 grade (3.7 total ozs) are worth around $7,500. But, her 70FS sets are worth at least $25,000-$30,000+. I even know of one “bullion dealer” right now that would buy them in a heartbeat for the $27,000.

PCGS FIRST STRIKE - ‘‘It’s what collectors want”.

Wondercoin.

Where can I find a price guide for PCGS first strike coins? Thank you.

wondercoin

DisneyFan - A good starting point is Coinfacts. Followed by further research at Heritage, GC and possibly Stacks (prices realized). Followed by a review of dealer available inventory and what has already sold on EBay. That should be a great start.

Wondercoin

DisneyFan

@wondercoin said:
DisneyFan - A good starting point is Coinfacts. Followed by further research at Heritage, GC and possibly Stacks (prices realized). Followed by a review of dealer available inventory and what has already sold on EBay. That should be a great start.

Wondercoin

I checked CoinFacts; but, I'm not seeing a reference to "First Strike."

wondercoin

DisneyFan. You find them under…

‘’Show related coins and varieties”.

Wondercoin

DisneyFan

@wondercoin said:
DisneyFan. You find them under…

‘’Show related coins and varieties”.

Wondercoin

Found it! Thank you!

COINFACTS -> Bullion Coins -> Platinum Eagles -> $100 Platinum Eagles -> Proof -> Show related coins and varieties

ProofCollection

A couple questions:
I haven't noticed much of a market price difference between FDI and FS for general issues like proof cents, nickels, dimes, quarters etc. but I honestly haven't looked that close. Anyone notice anything different? I do see FDI being valuable for special mint issues.

For registry set purposes, are there any FDI sets being established? I would assume that an FDI coin would qualify for a FS set.

winesteven

I just purchased for my Type Set the Sally Ride 2022 Woman quarters in PR70 DCAM, one clad, one silver. I found only a tiny difference in pricing between FDI and FS, so I chose the FDI for each. Why not?

Steve

ProofCollection

@winesteven said:
I just purchased for my Type Set the 2022 Woman quarters in PR70 DCAM, one clad, one silver. I found only a tiny difference in pricing between FDI and FS, so I chose the FDI for each. Why not?

Steve

The 'why not' for me is what I struggle with because almost all of my collection is First Strike, so for consistency I want to keep it FS so the entire set matches, although in my head I don't really care. That for me is the biggest heartburn with all of these special labels too. Wish I wasn't so OCD.

JonJet

An FDOI just stripped My Top Rank for the 2021 Proof Set

ProofCollection

@JonJet said:
An FDOI just stripped My Top Rank for the 2021 Proof Set

So fdoi outscores fs?

JonJet

ONLY in this case - if this is allowed to stand - the result with be an inevitable Pandora's Box

This is the ONLY case where a PR70DCAM FDOI has been given a +2 for finest grade...

Just based on the Label which is Total Pop 1

Clifs_Proofs

Interestingly, my 2015-P Lyndon B. Johnson REV PR (First Strike) got stripped by a an example that did not have FS or FDOI and thus my Top Rank (and that of others) became 2nd place. I have been told that it is the fact that the slab is unique (n=1) and not the grade of the coin that makes the difference.

I hope that this is not common - but I have two personal examples of being demoted to 2nd because my plastic was not good enough - all while the coins are the best that can be.

This wrong, and I know that we will not receive the honors we should have for these sets. It really creates a demand for plastic when the awards are given for this sort of nonsense.

JonJet

@Clifs_Proofs said:
Interestingly, my 2015-P Lyndon B. Johnson REV PR (First Strike) got stripped by a an example that did not have FS or FDOI and thus my Top Rank (and that of others) became 2nd place. I have been told that it is the fact that the slab is unique (n=1) and not the grade of the coin that makes the difference.

I hope that this is not common - but I have two personal examples of being demoted to 2nd because my plastic was not good enough - all while the coins are the best that can be.

This wrong, and I know that we will not receive the honors we should have for these sets. It really creates a demand for plastic when the awards are given for this sort of nonsense.

The 2021 Proof Set has been revised after I provided the details - all #2's are back to Top Rank

A Slab cannot upstage a Grade

Stingray63

Those graded with the FDOI and FS designations are sold by the likes of APMEX and MCM to name a few sources. The designation also has to do the the monster boxes received from the US Mint for grading. If you bought a coin with the FS designation there is no way to get that changed to FDOI. APMEX sells coins in TEP holders that are "PCGS FS eligible" should you decide to submit to grading but for FDOI you're just going to have to buy that way the first time.
Just an example of where FS is (currently anyway ) better than FDOI, go look up 2020 ASE (MS70) in the PCGS price guide. $77 vs. $75. To me it wouldn't make a difference though.

Clifs_Proofs

@JonJet said:

@Clifs_Proofs said:
Interestingly, my 2015-P Lyndon B. Johnson REV PR (First Strike) got stripped by a an example that did not have FS or FDOI and thus my Top Rank (and that of others) became 2nd place. I have been told that it is the fact that the slab is unique (n=1) and not the grade of the coin that makes the difference.

I hope that this is not common - but I have two personal examples of being demoted to 2nd because my plastic was not good enough - all while the coins are the best that can be.

This wrong, and I know that we will not receive the honors we should have for these sets. It really creates a demand for plastic when the awards are given for this sort of nonsense.

The 2021 Proof Set has been revised after I provided the details - all #2's are back to Top Rank

A Slab cannot upstage a Grade

This is good news. Thank you for getting the Registry folks attention and corrective action on this! I have renewed my appeal for the same treatment for the Presidential Dollars set.

JonJet

I have checked all the Proof Sets from 1957 to Present...

There are only 3 Proof Sets with a coin that does qualify for the +2 Bonus for Single Finest Grade

1959 - 1968 - 1972 Proof Sets have examples of such coins

One famous Member of Set Registry owns 2 of the 3 coins

There may be some additional corrective actions coming...I have noticed several Specialty Labels that have been included in a few Sets by mistake

Are You listening PCGS Set Registry?

1) A Label cannot earn a +2 Bonus for Single Finest Grade !!!
2) A Label does NOT qualify for an added New Slot !!!

Grade the Coin only - and Respect The Grade !!!

ProofCollection

OK, just trying to decide when I buy my 2022 Proof Gold buffalo whether to get FDOI now instead of FS which is the rest of my set. I'd like to stay consistent but if FDOI has more value for some reason, might as well get that now.

JonJet

Currently...neither the FDOI or FS give an advantage - a PR70DCAM is the Perfect Grade

Which is better is a great question that each Collector needs to determine for themselves

FDOI and FS seem to have a small price premium

Eventually I would like to see some level of recognition for the FDOI and FS - perhaps something along the lines of the same given to YN's

But again...the is no current Rating advantage

JonJet

For some unexplainable reason...I have a growing dislike of the FDOI label...

Preferring the First Strike Label instead

Recently I have managed to find a few FS labels and have replaced the associated FDOI's...

But a few are becoming difficult to locate

Glen2022

FWIW, PCGS tends to issue a lot of different labels for modern releases. Take your coin (i.e., 2018-W Burnished ASE, base coin #675870). If I count correctly, there are 70 unique 'coin numbers/labels' for this coin. Examples include: Mercanti Signature, Liberty Picture Frame, Art Deco, and 1st Coin.

Reference

Edited for clarity.

So I guess that anyone who wants a complete set must have 70 different coins for this particular year to reflect each of the labels, is this true? A great way to increase demand. And of course if demand increases, the price goes up as well, basic economics. Just my two cents.

MetroD

@Glen2022 said:

So I guess that anyone who wants a complete set must have 70 different coins for this particular year to reflect each of the labels, is this true? A great way to increase demand. And of course if demand increases, the price goes up as well, basic economics. Just my two cents.

Really depends upon your definition of "complete".

Consider the PCGS set registry. As far as I can tell, the "major" set specific to burnished silver eagles requires one 2018-W coin in order to be "100.00 % complete" (i.e., SILVER EAGLES, BURNISHED (1986-PRESENT)).

FWIW, assembling a complete set of ALL the different labels for a 2018-W burnished ASE would be extremely difficult. This is the case as several of the PCGS 'coin numbers/labels' have a population of one (e.g., 890125, 880898, 825121, 902435, 902453, 675930). Further, several others have populations in the single digits.

Edited to add - my last post on this coin indicated that there were 70 unique 'coin numbers/labels' for this coin. Just noticed that this number was incorrect. Per the "coin facts" page for the base coin, 675870, there are 74.

Source

JonJet

Anyone with the $$$ to pay for it can have a Pop 1 label...for as many coins as You care to submit/pay for

Many collectors have their own labels

I guess You could request any style of label You can imagine...

I dunno if they'd put the "Trucker Babe" design from the mudflap fame on it though

I have a Pop 1 coin...no special label - just one-of-a-kind and the only grade for My 1963 cent - Pop 1

Got it from eBay for $39.95

But at the end of the day...the average collector tends to collect the Graded Coin - not the labels

And slowly but surely the Set Registry is ridding itself of errors with that regard in mind

More to come

..

Personally, I think all these different inserts are becoming like Beanie Babies. They are taking a good thing and making it into a can of worms. Dealers are selling Pop 1 or Pop 2 coins for a premium when there are 100+ labels with the same pop numbers but just a different insert. ONE signed Beanie was worth a lot, but 5,000 signed Beanies were almost worthless...... In my opinion they need to severely restrict the # of different inserts for each coin........ and then the dealers can sell Pop 1 or Pop 5 coins that are actually that population. The grade makes the coin.........the insert shouldn't......although having a coin insert signed by the designer seems a bit more intriguing to me. ;-)

Glen2022

@wondercoin said:
‘Does it really make any difference? They are still just bullion coins.’’

It sometimes makes a HUGE difference especially (to some) since the method of payment for them is typically JUST paper US Dollars worth less and less most years due to inflation. This past year, a lot less!

Just my 2 cents.

Wondercoin

I think that it can make a huge difference. Right now on GC auctions there is a 4 piece set of 1986 gold eagles MS 67/69 called discovery coins with the first (and only) 1986 Gold eagles labeled FS and also given the only FDOI designation by PCGS. Opening bid $22,500. no takers yet. I don't know for sure but I"ll bet 1986 GEs of a similiar grade with out the designations will not bring as much money (assuming the sell at or above the opening bid).

Just my observation.

@goldenboy101 said:

I spoke to a PCGS rep asking to change my label to FDOI from FS. I was told FDOI label is reserved only for companies that send coins over in bulk, ie >100. She said there is no way I can get the FDOI label on my coin. Is this true?

So if this is the only 86 set of GEs labeled FDOI how could it have been submitted in bulk?

Am I missing something?

wondercoin

‘Opening bid $22,500. no takers yet.”

Isn’t this the set that has relisted (unsold) so many times now that most have lost count (perhaps Goldminers has the total count of relists in his vast Eagle notes?). Yet, relisted at the same price every time. Or, am I mixing this up with another $22,500 opening bid 1986 set that feels like it has been offered since Ian opened his doors for business 😆

Wondercoin.

Goldminers

This set has been placed with a reserve starting price by someone obviously with Mint connections to acquire them and documentation to prove they were actually first day struck coins. This is not the normal bulk methodology. Of course, in MS67-69 grades, this price is a joke and there have been 30-45 people tracking it for a very long time.

I collect gold eagles, but I have no interest in these First Strikes and FDOI labels at all in this case. However, some people like to say they have "the only one" of anything. It is like the NFT's and other things, there just might be a few people with a lot of money to waste and large egos that feel a need to own them.

For other coins, like the gold first spouses, the first strike labels are worth more and I have spent a lot of time and a bit of a premium getting complete First Strike sets of them. There are enough available to create demand, yet because there are fewer coins available with first strike populations, the labels in this case do add value and are worth more.

Goldminers

I should add that as a collector, I do routinely pay a few percent more for First Strikes on newly minted moderns, but only those that are graded 70. I personally would not pay extra for First Strikes or FDOI modern labels graded 69 or less.

And yes, I admit that I did just pay 1-2% more for a FDOI labeled 2022 MS70 gold set as I think there could be some small value longer term for its lower population numbers and gold is down a bit from earlier in the year.

Bottom line, it is up to the individual collector what they like to acquire, and thankfully, we have the freedom in this country to choose what we like to buy or sell, as far as coins go.