@airplanenut said:
And I'm not going to have a listing without a title and description.
WAG: eBay is trying to figure a way to automatically generate titles from item specifics. And then, sellers won't have the option of choosing their title.
Interesting thought. If they do that, it'll be one more example I have for how eBay does things that work for a lot of the stuff on the site, but that fails miserably for coins.
@airplanenut said:
Interesting thought. If they do that, it'll be one more example I have for how eBay does things that work for a lot of the stuff on the site, but that fails miserably for coins.
It's just a guess but 20 years ago, on a long-defunct eBay related message board, I was told I was nuts when I said I thought eBay would try to eliminate the ability of buyers and sellers contacting each other directly. And look where we are today.
The reason I mentioned automatically generating titles is that if they can do that, it makes it a lot easier to sort the listings into whatever order eBay would like- you know, for giving preferential exposure to some sellers over others. They already do this now, but with generic titles, it'll be a whole lot easier.
@airplanenut said:
Interesting thought. If they do that, it'll be one more example I have for how eBay does things that work for a lot of the stuff on the site, but that fails miserably for coins.
It's just a guess but 20 years ago, on a long-defunct eBay related message board, I was told I was nuts when I said I thought eBay would try to eliminate the ability of buyers and sellers contacting each other directly. And look where we are today.
The reason I mentioned automatically generating titles is that if they can do that, it makes it a lot easier to sort the listings into whatever order eBay would like- you know, for giving preferential exposure to some sellers over others. They already do this now, but with generic titles, it'll be a whole lot easier.
Indeed. I don't think you're off by any stretch. It's extra frustrating because I see how it works with generic stuff (where they actually compete with Amazon and the like), but with unique items, all the things they do just make things worse.
@airplanenut said:
It's extra frustrating because I see how it works with generic stuff (where they actually compete with Amazon and the like), but with unique items, all the things they do just make things worse.
Ironic, as it's the sellers of unique items that enabled their website to take off in the first place.
@airplanenut said:
It's extra frustrating because I see how it works with generic stuff (where they actually compete with Amazon and the like), but with unique items, all the things they do just make things worse.
Ironic, as it's the sellers of unique items that enabled their website to take off in the first place.
I think you may be right. But I think it might be a less nefarious reason. I think they will eliminate titles altogether. Prevents hype and makes it easier for a buyer to find all the 5 gallon jugs of Tide. It probably works less well for unique collectables, but it will limit the appearance of "rare", "unique", "monster", etc.
so is the point of managed payments to wean buyers off PayPal, to get a piece of that business? when someone pays with managed payments, can they use something other than credit card or PayPal, like eBay's own thing? and all these seemingly strange requirements are coming from the payment processor upstream, presumably to reduce the risk of returns/fraud, which lower eBay's cost to run the payment? is the goal to create another PayPal-like business that can be sold later? I don't understand the angles.
@tcollects said:
so is the point of managed payments to wean buyers off PayPal, to get a piece of that business? when someone pays with managed payments, can they use something other than credit card or PayPal, like eBay's own thing? and all these seemingly strange requirements are coming from the payment processor upstream, presumably to reduce the risk of returns/fraud, which lower eBay's cost to run the payment? is the goal to create another PayPal-like business that can be sold later? I don't understand the angles.
Without delving into details (which I don't know) I can see two benefits for eBay to process payments themselves. First, they can collect the fee on the payments instead of PayPal, so more money for eBay (doesn't explain why eBay sold PayPal a few years ago). Second, and I don't know how this will play out, but as a seller, one issue I have right now is that if a buyer files a claim with eBay and loses, they can then go cry to PayPal (or vice versa). So from a seller standpoint, I'm (very cautiously) optimistic that this switch will mean if there's a bogus case, all of the communications between buyer and seller, and seller and eBay, will be in one place, and that decision will be final. Of course chargebacks still exist, but hey, for someone who just wants an easy return they don't deserve, the chargeback may be going a step too far for them.
I use paypal for my ebay sales and my lawn service business, as well as, other transactions they charge a fee per payment regardless of where it comes from. So, if I were to sell an item and the buyer uses paypal to pay how will ebay stop paypal from charging a fee on top of the ebay fee? Paypal will still have to process payments coming in from ebay. Also, isn't adding a fee to taxes illegal?
@Davideo said:
Playing devil's advocate, would not more stringent listing requirements tend to reduce the amount of numismatic "garbage" listed?
Well, you tell me. Based on ALL of ebay's magnanimous efforts to reduce numismatic garbage, have they succeeded? The results (however you choose to intrepret them) speak for themselves.
And to @MasonG point: one man's garbage is another man's treasure.
I truly believe that in coins, that happens much less often than you think, but I can only make that observation after having been in the hobby some forty years. Perhaps I'm completely wrong about that.
@Davideo said:
Playing devil's advocate, would not more stringent listing requirements tend to reduce the amount of numismatic "garbage" listed?
Well, you tell me. Based on ALL of ebay's magnanimous efforts to reduce numismatic garbage, have they succeeded? The results (however you choose to intrepret them) speak for themselves.
And to @MasonG point: one man's garbage is another man's treasure.
I truly believe that in coins, that happens much less often than you think, but I can only make that observation after having been in the hobby some forty years. Perhaps I'm completely wrong about that.
Given the number of cull Indian cents, dateless Buffalo nickels, cleaned Morgan $s and the like that I've sold, you might be at least somewhat wrong about that.
There are people on this forum who would not touch a dipped coin much less a cleaned coin. There are also people that don't mind lightly cleaned coins and prefer the lower price point. Garbage/treasure.
I had an estate a few years back where the buyer liked quantity. He bought entire "junk boxes" from dealers. His estate would have filled a mid-sized UHaul. I knew one of the dealers he frequented for 30 years. The dealer told me that he constantly suggested that the man buy fewer coins but "nicer" coins. He refused. He liked the quantity. That is not the only estate I've seen like that.
I've had estates that were 90% splashy TV "collectibles". Copies, plated coins, polished sets. People on this forum wouldn't have bought a single one of those items. That person loved them.
And then there are the little exonumia cul-de-sacs. Elongated cents have a niche, but are garbage to some.
Even modern mint commemoratives would fall into the garbage/treasure category. Some people love them, some people despise the Mint for even making them.
@jmlanzaf said:
Given the number of cull Indian cents, dateless Buffalo nickels, cleaned Morgan $s and the like that I've sold, you might be at least somewhat wrong about that.
Or in other words, the kind of things many beginning collectors tend to buy- you know, inexpensive stuff. At least until they start to get a better understanding of the hobby, where their interests lie and reach a point in their lives where they can afford nicer coins, anyway. It's a rare newbie who starts out by assembling a collection of top-pop Southern gold.
My observation comes from having been in the hobby for sixty years.
@jmlanzaf said:
Given the number of cull Indian cents, dateless Buffalo nickels, cleaned Morgan $s and the like that I've sold, you might be at least somewhat wrong about that.
Or in other words, the kind of things many beginning collectors tend to buy- you know, inexpensive stuff. At least until they start to get a better understanding of the hobby, where their interests lie and reach a point in their lives where they can afford nicer coins, anyway. It's a rare newbie who starts out by assembling a collection of top-pop Southern gold.
My observation comes from having been in the hobby for sixty years.
Damn! You guys are old.... LOL
Although, to be fair, I guess I have 50 years in the hobby if you start counting from my roll searching with my grandfather around 1970/71
To your comment:
A lot of them are beginners. But some people don't care about certain defects that much and, especially for a scarcer coin, will buy the "details" coin if the reason for the "details" grade doesn't bother them.
For example, I like ancient coins. They are all curated, all crusty with often thick patinas. So, I don't really mind a similar looking medal or early copper piece. On the other hand, I can't stand tooled coins. And I cannot bring myself to overlook die polish lines as, to my eye, they are as distracting as hairline scratches.
Bust collectors are used to old, minor cleaning and tend not to care that much about it. On the other hand, collectors of later series might well despise it.
And there are people who have...er...eccentric? tastes. I knew a guy who loved holed coins as long as the hole was at 12:00 of the obverse. I met a guy once who collected bent coins.
@jmlanzaf said:
if you start counting from my roll searching with my grandfather...
Change "roll searching" to "pocket change searching" and "grandfather" to "grandmother", and that's where I started.
And yeah- I do feel old sometimes.
edited to add... I understand this is not really a "New Collectors" message board so the topics here don't typically address their interests, but I am somewhat disappointed how often their interests are denigrated here- you know, calling what they collect "junk", "garbage", etc. Everybody has to start somewhere.
@tincup said:
So what would happen if you listed items in Collectibles category? And just provide good title and description....
item specifics for collectibles category are much different than they are for coins. Item specifics for each ebay category are designed for those types of items.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@MasonG said: Year and Denomination item specifics fields are already part of the listing process and are currently “recommended,” but will now be “required” effective January 20.
It would be nice to require TPG name and cert numbers.
They accept it and some sellers enter it but many do not.
They do require the certification company, and please tell me what use the cert number as a searchable term could possibly be.
It makes it easier to copy & paste the number into the cert verification page instead of trying to remember it, forgetting it, and going back & forth between screens. Wait until you get to my age and you'll understand!
I get that part, but it's also something I don't care about at all. If you want to look up the cert number, have at it.
@MasonG said: Year and Denomination item specifics fields are already part of the listing process and are currently “recommended,” but will now be “required” effective January 20.
It would be nice to require TPG name and cert numbers.
They accept it and some sellers enter it but many do not.
They do require the certification company, and please tell me what use the cert number as a searchable term could possibly be.
It's not at all useful as a searchable term. Frankly, "PCGS" isn't necessary as a searchable term if it is in the title since it searches there also. However, some people seem to get there information from the item specifics rather than the pictures or listing. You see it on here all the time when someone complains that a seller has the wrong cert number in the item specifics.
Here's the rub--that's a reason NOT to have item specifics. Any time I have to duplicate information, there's an opportunity to be inconsistent, which can only spell trouble. And I'm not going to have a listing without a title and description.
Required item specifics ensure a shopper knows certain critical details about the item that may or may not also appear in the title or description - item specifics guarantee a shopper gets critical info. This latest addition to required specifics for coins is simply ebay evolving. As a buyer I like it when they take further steps to protect me and to make sure I have the info I need to make an informed buying decision. As a seller I like knowing they take further steps to keep my competition honest.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@CollectorBonEZ said:
I use paypal for my ebay sales and my lawn service business, as well as, other transactions they charge a fee per payment regardless of where it comes from. So, if I were to sell an item and the buyer uses paypal to pay how will ebay stop paypal from charging a fee on top of the ebay fee? Paypal will still have to process payments coming in from ebay. Also, isn't adding a fee to taxes illegal?
eBay will charge a processing fee if eBay processes the payment. If PayPal processes it, PayPal charges the fee.
As for taxes, think about it this way. Let's say there is a 5% processing fee on transactions and 10% sales tax (easy numbers). The sale is $100, so with tax, it's $110. There is a cost to process that $10 tax. You can argue that PayPal charges more than the credit card company charges PayPal, but that's an aside. All PayPal (or eBay if they're taking the payment) sees is $110 coming in, and they charge 5% on that $110. The only reason it looks problematic is that you never see that $10, since eBay remits it automatically. If you were simply paid the full amount and then separately paid the tax authority, PayPal/eBay wouldn't know (or care) what was the item price and what was tax, they'd just care about the net they processed.
"Required item specifics ensure a shopper knows certain critical details about the item that may or may not also appear in the title or description - item specifics guarantee a shopper gets critical info."
No, they don't. All required item specifics ensure is that something was entered in the form. Maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. Does anybody really think that a seller who is willing to misrepresent an item in a title or description won't also misrepresent it when entering item specific info? That's just silly.
@MasonG said: "Required item specifics ensure a shopper knows certain critical details about the item that may or may not also appear in the title or description - item specifics guarantee a shopper gets critical info."
No, they don't. All required item specifics ensure is that something was entered in the form. Maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. Does anybody really think that a seller who is willing to misrepresent an item in a title or description won't also misrepresent it when entering item specific info? That's just silly.
By entering false info in item specifics that would not otherwise be provided (in the title or description) a dishonest seller just gave his buyer grounds for "not as described." Item specifics force a seller to provided info, whether true or false, that he may have intentionally avoided providing in his title or description. Like I said, item specifics help protect a buyer.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Yes. Low budget dedicated collectors will buy problem coins just to get certain ones. I flipped my lid 10 years ago when I was lucky enough to obtain a cleaned 1895 S Morgan.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
"By entering false info in item specifics that would not otherwise be provided (in the title or description) a dishonest seller just gave his buyer grounds for "not as described." Item specifics force a seller to provided info, whether true or false, that he may have intentionally avoided providing in his title or description."
Why would you be considering listings where the seller doesn't provide necessary information in his title or description in the first place? That seems rather silly. Wouldn't it be easier to just not send your money in the first place?
Regardless, eBay already allows buyers to file "not as described" claims on whatever they like, so it's not like there's any additional benefit there.
Given the number of cull Indian cents, dateless Buffalo nickels, cleaned Morgan $s and the like that I've sold, you might be at least somewhat wrong about that.
There are people on this forum who would not touch a dipped coin much less a cleaned coin. There are also people that don't mind lightly cleaned coins and prefer the lower price point. Garbage/treasure.
I will respectfully suggest that usually, that's a case of "one man's garbage is another man's garbage".
My own collection contains some stellar gems, and also some shamefully horrible coins (I mean.... REALLY horrible - you might cringe). But I still understand that the former are "treasure" and the latter are "garbage". It just so happens that I collect both.
That fact doesn't magically turn my "garbage" into "treasure", though.
@MasonG said: "Required item specifics ensure a shopper knows certain critical details about the item that may or may not also appear in the title or description - item specifics guarantee a shopper gets critical info."
No, they don't. All required item specifics ensure is that something was entered in the form. Maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. Does anybody really think that a seller who is willing to misrepresent an item in a title or description won't also misrepresent it when entering item specific info? That's just silly.
Besides, why can't you just refuse to purchase an item if you feel you lack information.
@MasonG said: "Required item specifics ensure a shopper knows certain critical details about the item that may or may not also appear in the title or description - item specifics guarantee a shopper gets critical info."
No, they don't. All required item specifics ensure is that something was entered in the form. Maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. Does anybody really think that a seller who is willing to misrepresent an item in a title or description won't also misrepresent it when entering item specific info? That's just silly.
By entering false info in item specifics that would not otherwise be provided (in the title or description) a dishonest seller just gave his buyer grounds for "not as described." Item specifics force a seller to provided info, whether true or false, that he may have intentionally avoided providing in his title or description. Like I said, item specifics help protect a buyer.
It doesn't have to be wrong. Could just be N/A or "unknown".
And there's nothing stopping a SNAD no matter how much information you add.
If I show you a full slab shot with year, mint mark, denomination, grade, cert number and TPG, what is the point in repeating the information on both the title and the Item Specifics? That is three sets of redundant information.
Given the number of cull Indian cents, dateless Buffalo nickels, cleaned Morgan $s and the like that I've sold, you might be at least somewhat wrong about that.
There are people on this forum who would not touch a dipped coin much less a cleaned coin. There are also people that don't mind lightly cleaned coins and prefer the lower price point. Garbage/treasure.
I will respectfully suggest that usually, that's a case of "one man's garbage is another man's garbage".
My own collection contains some stellar gems, and also some shamefully horrible coins (I mean.... REALLY horrible - you might cringe). But I still understand that the former are "treasure" and the latter are "garbage". It just so happens that I collect both.
That fact doesn't magically turn my "garbage" into "treasure", though.
It's a treasure to you.
You're kind of reinterpreting the meaning of the phrase. Garbage vs. Treasure refers to the subjective value of the object. It doesn't refer to condition or even market price.
Just got a call from eBay they wanted to know If I needed help signing up for Managed Payments. She also said the would appreciate it if I signed up within the next 48 hours as I may not be able to list.
@djm said:
Just got a call from eBay they wanted to know If I needed help signing up for Managed Payments. She also said the would appreciate it if I signed up within the next 48 hours as I may not be able to list.
Do you have coins listed? Read somewhere that having a coin listed delays force entry into manage payments.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@djm said:
Just got a call from eBay they wanted to know If I needed help signing up for Managed Payments. She also said the would appreciate it if I signed up within the next 48 hours as I may not be able to list.
Do you have coins listed? Read somewhere that having a coin listed delays force entry into manage payments.
And there's nothing stopping a SNAD no matter how much information you add.
No, but the more information provided, the more support one of the two parties will have in a SNAD.
"Not as described" ruling is completely dependent on the information/description in the listing.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@djm said:
Just got a call from eBay they wanted to know If I needed help signing up for Managed Payments. She also said the would appreciate it if I signed up within the next 48 hours as I may not be able to list.
Do you have coins listed? Read somewhere that having a coin listed delays force entry into manage payments.you
That time is over. They have resolved the coin issue.
If I read things right, they're increasing final values fees substantially for store subscribers in the Coins category? Was 6.15% + 2.9% = 9.05%, now 11.5%
Before, a store reduced fees by 4 percentage points (10% to 6% in the coins categories). It was worth paying for a basic store subscription ($27.95) if you made $700 in monthly sales, since saving 4% on $700 = $28 would pay for the store fees.
Now a store saves only 0.85 percentage points (12.35% to 11.5%). You need to have $3300 in monthly sales before it makes sense to pay for a store.
@jonathanb said:
If I read things right, they're increasing final values fees substantially for store subscribers in the Coins category? Was 6.15% + 2.9% = 9.05%, now 11.5%
Before, a store reduced fees by 4 percentage points (10% to 6% in the coins categories). It was worth paying for a basic store subscription ($27.95) if you made $700 in monthly sales, since saving 4% on $700 = $28 would pay for the store fees.
Now a store saves only 0.85 percentage points (12.35% to 11.5%). You need to have $3300 in monthly sales before it makes sense to pay for a store.
Is that the right math?
It's sort of not known. It should be incorrect. They haven't stated what the fees are in the coins category because the coins category isn't currently included in managed payments.
@hiijacker said:
Was 6.15% + 2.9% = 9.05%, now 11.5% total.
That is a 27% Increase in total fees!!!
Again, that is not the declared rate for coins.
It's pretty close, when considering PP fees. The managed payment system will get those fees back to eBay, so they can increase their bottom line. At this juncture, it is not about the consumer. This is just a tug of war for 'what's in "our" wallet'. ...when the dust settles, it is the consumer who gets less for more.
@hiijacker said:
Was 6.15% + 2.9% = 9.05%, now 11.5% total.
That is a 27% Increase in total fees!!!
Again, that is not the declared rate for coins.
It's pretty close, when considering PP fees. The managed payment system will get those fees back to eBay, so they can increase their bottom line. At this juncture, it is not about the consumer. This is just a tug of war for 'what's in "our" wallet'. ...when the dust settles, it is the consumer who gets less for more.
If you look at all other categories that have had their rates declared both before and after managed payments, the managed payments typically resulted in a rate that is a tenth or two lower than the current rate.
I think you are double counting the PP fees. The current coin rate is 6.15% with a store (which is what we were talking about). If you add in the PP fees (2.9%+0.30), the current (pre-managed payment) rate for coins is 9.05% I would expect the managed payment rate to end up in the 9% area also, based on all the other categories that have their own rates.
If you want to use the non-store rate, you get a current number that is closer to 13%.
So, you can complain about the 9% (or 13%) rate being too high. But it also means that it hasn't changed from what it is now.
Managed payments is slightly cheaper than PayPal for inexpensive items and TREMENDOUSLY cheaper for expensive items as the rate drops to 2.5% TOTAL for the price over $2500.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
Leave it to the market makers to make their market less desirable.
P.S. There really is undue paranoia about managed payments. Managed payments includes PayPal within it, so from a buyer perspective it creates more flexibility in payments. From a seller standpoint, the fees for payment processing are slightly cheaper than PayPal, so it is also very marginally better.
Very little changes with managed payments other than the way you get you money. Rather than going into your PayPal account immediately and then needing to be transferred to your bank account, if you want to withdraw it, the money goes into your checking account (after a couple days) where you then might need to transfer it to your PayPal account if you wish.
The biggest "negative" from the change might be that it takes an extra day to get the money into your checking account since PayPal transfers to my account usually only take one day.
From a buyer standpoint this is a significant improvement as you can now pay using a multiple of methods rather than only using PayPal.
@jmlanzaf said:
Very little changes with managed payments other than the way you get you money. Rather than going into your PayPal account immediately and then needing to be transferred to your bank account, if you want to withdraw it, the money goes into your checking account (after a couple days) where you then might need to transfer it to your PayPal account if you wish.
Ok- I'll admit to being lazy for not trying to find the answer myself first, but do you know how the timing of the transfer from eBay to your checking account works? Every day? Every week? Not until you request it? Or???
@jmlanzaf said:
Very little changes with managed payments other than the way you get you money. Rather than going into your PayPal account immediately and then needing to be transferred to your bank account, if you want to withdraw it, the money goes into your checking account (after a couple days) where you then might need to transfer it to your PayPal account if you wish.
Ok- I'll admit to being lazy for not trying to find the answer myself first, but do you know how the timing of the transfer from eBay to your checking account works? Every day? Every week? Not until you request it? Or???
@KISHU1 said:
What are managed payments?
Thanks
Frank D
I either missed or did see this question answer? Can you still use Pay-Pals?
Managed payments is just a payment processor. You can use PayPal as one of multiple means of paying for items as a buyer. You cannot use PayPal as your sole means of collecting funds if you are a seller.
Comments
Interesting thought. If they do that, it'll be one more example I have for how eBay does things that work for a lot of the stuff on the site, but that fails miserably for coins.
It's just a guess but 20 years ago, on a long-defunct eBay related message board, I was told I was nuts when I said I thought eBay would try to eliminate the ability of buyers and sellers contacting each other directly. And look where we are today.
The reason I mentioned automatically generating titles is that if they can do that, it makes it a lot easier to sort the listings into whatever order eBay would like- you know, for giving preferential exposure to some sellers over others. They already do this now, but with generic titles, it'll be a whole lot easier.
Indeed. I don't think you're off by any stretch. It's extra frustrating because I see how it works with generic stuff (where they actually compete with Amazon and the like), but with unique items, all the things they do just make things worse.
Ironic, as it's the sellers of unique items that enabled their website to take off in the first place.
I think you may be right. But I think it might be a less nefarious reason. I think they will eliminate titles altogether. Prevents hype and makes it easier for a buyer to find all the 5 gallon jugs of Tide. It probably works less well for unique collectables, but it will limit the appearance of "rare", "unique", "monster", etc.
eBay should either A) put you on their payroll (if you're not already)
give you a reduced FVF structure.
or
Are you sure he's not just a bot posting random compliments every time eBay is mentioned here?
Actually the thought has occurred to me.....🤔
so is the point of managed payments to wean buyers off PayPal, to get a piece of that business? when someone pays with managed payments, can they use something other than credit card or PayPal, like eBay's own thing? and all these seemingly strange requirements are coming from the payment processor upstream, presumably to reduce the risk of returns/fraud, which lower eBay's cost to run the payment? is the goal to create another PayPal-like business that can be sold later? I don't understand the angles.
Without delving into details (which I don't know) I can see two benefits for eBay to process payments themselves. First, they can collect the fee on the payments instead of PayPal, so more money for eBay (doesn't explain why eBay sold PayPal a few years ago). Second, and I don't know how this will play out, but as a seller, one issue I have right now is that if a buyer files a claim with eBay and loses, they can then go cry to PayPal (or vice versa). So from a seller standpoint, I'm (very cautiously) optimistic that this switch will mean if there's a bogus case, all of the communications between buyer and seller, and seller and eBay, will be in one place, and that decision will be final. Of course chargebacks still exist, but hey, for someone who just wants an easy return they don't deserve, the chargeback may be going a step too far for them.
I went thtu 250 listings off listings menu this evening updated / fixed ones missing recommended stuff.
Have had some really money maker sales and super pickups last few days.
I use paypal for my ebay sales and my lawn service business, as well as, other transactions they charge a fee per payment regardless of where it comes from. So, if I were to sell an item and the buyer uses paypal to pay how will ebay stop paypal from charging a fee on top of the ebay fee? Paypal will still have to process payments coming in from ebay. Also, isn't adding a fee to taxes illegal?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/showcase/6602
Well, you tell me. Based on ALL of ebay's magnanimous efforts to reduce numismatic garbage, have they succeeded? The results (however you choose to intrepret them) speak for themselves.
I truly believe that in coins, that happens much less often than you think, but I can only make that observation after having been in the hobby some forty years. Perhaps I'm completely wrong about that.
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
Given the number of cull Indian cents, dateless Buffalo nickels, cleaned Morgan $s and the like that I've sold, you might be at least somewhat wrong about that.
There are people on this forum who would not touch a dipped coin much less a cleaned coin. There are also people that don't mind lightly cleaned coins and prefer the lower price point. Garbage/treasure.
I had an estate a few years back where the buyer liked quantity. He bought entire "junk boxes" from dealers. His estate would have filled a mid-sized UHaul. I knew one of the dealers he frequented for 30 years. The dealer told me that he constantly suggested that the man buy fewer coins but "nicer" coins. He refused. He liked the quantity. That is not the only estate I've seen like that.
I've had estates that were 90% splashy TV "collectibles". Copies, plated coins, polished sets. People on this forum wouldn't have bought a single one of those items. That person loved them.
And then there are the little exonumia cul-de-sacs. Elongated cents have a niche, but are garbage to some.
Even modern mint commemoratives would fall into the garbage/treasure category. Some people love them, some people despise the Mint for even making them.
TLDR LOL
Or in other words, the kind of things many beginning collectors tend to buy- you know, inexpensive stuff. At least until they start to get a better understanding of the hobby, where their interests lie and reach a point in their lives where they can afford nicer coins, anyway. It's a rare newbie who starts out by assembling a collection of top-pop Southern gold.
My observation comes from having been in the hobby for sixty years.
Damn! You guys are old.... LOL
Although, to be fair, I guess I have 50 years in the hobby if you start counting from my roll searching with my grandfather around 1970/71
To your comment:
A lot of them are beginners. But some people don't care about certain defects that much and, especially for a scarcer coin, will buy the "details" coin if the reason for the "details" grade doesn't bother them.
For example, I like ancient coins. They are all curated, all crusty with often thick patinas. So, I don't really mind a similar looking medal or early copper piece. On the other hand, I can't stand tooled coins. And I cannot bring myself to overlook die polish lines as, to my eye, they are as distracting as hairline scratches.
Bust collectors are used to old, minor cleaning and tend not to care that much about it. On the other hand, collectors of later series might well despise it.
And there are people who have...er...eccentric? tastes. I knew a guy who loved holed coins as long as the hole was at 12:00 of the obverse. I met a guy once who collected bent coins.
Change "roll searching" to "pocket change searching" and "grandfather" to "grandmother", and that's where I started.
And yeah- I do feel old sometimes.
edited to add... I understand this is not really a "New Collectors" message board so the topics here don't typically address their interests, but I am somewhat disappointed how often their interests are denigrated here- you know, calling what they collect "junk", "garbage", etc. Everybody has to start somewhere.
item specifics for collectibles category are much different than they are for coins. Item specifics for each ebay category are designed for those types of items.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Required item specifics ensure a shopper knows certain critical details about the item that may or may not also appear in the title or description - item specifics guarantee a shopper gets critical info. This latest addition to required specifics for coins is simply ebay evolving. As a buyer I like it when they take further steps to protect me and to make sure I have the info I need to make an informed buying decision. As a seller I like knowing they take further steps to keep my competition honest.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
eBay will charge a processing fee if eBay processes the payment. If PayPal processes it, PayPal charges the fee.
As for taxes, think about it this way. Let's say there is a 5% processing fee on transactions and 10% sales tax (easy numbers). The sale is $100, so with tax, it's $110. There is a cost to process that $10 tax. You can argue that PayPal charges more than the credit card company charges PayPal, but that's an aside. All PayPal (or eBay if they're taking the payment) sees is $110 coming in, and they charge 5% on that $110. The only reason it looks problematic is that you never see that $10, since eBay remits it automatically. If you were simply paid the full amount and then separately paid the tax authority, PayPal/eBay wouldn't know (or care) what was the item price and what was tax, they'd just care about the net they processed.
"Required item specifics ensure a shopper knows certain critical details about the item that may or may not also appear in the title or description - item specifics guarantee a shopper gets critical info."
No, they don't. All required item specifics ensure is that something was entered in the form. Maybe it's accurate, maybe it's not. Does anybody really think that a seller who is willing to misrepresent an item in a title or description won't also misrepresent it when entering item specific info? That's just silly.
By entering false info in item specifics that would not otherwise be provided (in the title or description) a dishonest seller just gave his buyer grounds for "not as described." Item specifics force a seller to provided info, whether true or false, that he may have intentionally avoided providing in his title or description. Like I said, item specifics help protect a buyer.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Yes. Low budget dedicated collectors will buy problem coins just to get certain ones. I flipped my lid 10 years ago when I was lucky enough to obtain a cleaned 1895 S Morgan.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
that will all depend on your annual tax return....
"By entering false info in item specifics that would not otherwise be provided (in the title or description) a dishonest seller just gave his buyer grounds for "not as described." Item specifics force a seller to provided info, whether true or false, that he may have intentionally avoided providing in his title or description."
Why would you be considering listings where the seller doesn't provide necessary information in his title or description in the first place? That seems rather silly. Wouldn't it be easier to just not send your money in the first place?
Regardless, eBay already allows buyers to file "not as described" claims on whatever they like, so it's not like there's any additional benefit there.
I will respectfully suggest that usually, that's a case of "one man's garbage is another man's garbage".
My own collection contains some stellar gems, and also some shamefully horrible coins (I mean.... REALLY horrible - you might cringe). But I still understand that the former are "treasure" and the latter are "garbage". It just so happens that I collect both.
That fact doesn't magically turn my "garbage" into "treasure", though.
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
Besides, why can't you just refuse to purchase an item if you feel you lack information.
It doesn't have to be wrong. Could just be N/A or "unknown".
And there's nothing stopping a SNAD no matter how much information you add.
If I show you a full slab shot with year, mint mark, denomination, grade, cert number and TPG, what is the point in repeating the information on both the title and the Item Specifics? That is three sets of redundant information.
It's a treasure to you.
You're kind of reinterpreting the meaning of the phrase. Garbage vs. Treasure refers to the subjective value of the object. It doesn't refer to condition or even market price.
Just got a call from eBay they wanted to know If I needed help signing up for Managed Payments. She also said the would appreciate it if I signed up within the next 48 hours as I may not be able to list.
Do you have coins listed? Read somewhere that having a coin listed delays force entry into manage payments.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Yes, I have mostly coins listed.
No, but the more information provided, the more support one of the two parties will have in a SNAD.
"Not as described" ruling is completely dependent on the information/description in the listing.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
That time is over. They have resolved the coin issue.
If I read things right, they're increasing final values fees substantially for store subscribers in the Coins category? Was 6.15% + 2.9% = 9.05%, now 11.5%
Before, a store reduced fees by 4 percentage points (10% to 6% in the coins categories). It was worth paying for a basic store subscription ($27.95) if you made $700 in monthly sales, since saving 4% on $700 = $28 would pay for the store fees.
Now a store saves only 0.85 percentage points (12.35% to 11.5%). You need to have $3300 in monthly sales before it makes sense to pay for a store.
Is that the right math?
It's sort of not known. It should be incorrect. They haven't stated what the fees are in the coins category because the coins category isn't currently included in managed payments.
Any updates on the fees for coins for a Basic store? As 11.5% is crazy.
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
No. But 11.5% includes the payment fee. The current rate is 9.05%
If they do the same as the other categories, it will still be about 9%
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/selling-fees/store-fees?id=4809
Was 6.15% + 2.9% = 9.05%, now 11.5% total.
That is a 27% Increase in total fees!!!
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
Again, that is not the declared rate for coins.
Wait, you're supposed to file those annually??
Leave it to the market makers to make their market less desirable.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It's pretty close, when considering PP fees. The managed payment system will get those fees back to eBay, so they can increase their bottom line. At this juncture, it is not about the consumer. This is just a tug of war for 'what's in "our" wallet'. ...when the dust settles, it is the consumer who gets less for more.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
If you look at all other categories that have had their rates declared both before and after managed payments, the managed payments typically resulted in a rate that is a tenth or two lower than the current rate.
I think you are double counting the PP fees. The current coin rate is 6.15% with a store (which is what we were talking about). If you add in the PP fees (2.9%+0.30), the current (pre-managed payment) rate for coins is 9.05% I would expect the managed payment rate to end up in the 9% area also, based on all the other categories that have their own rates.
If you want to use the non-store rate, you get a current number that is closer to 13%.
So, you can complain about the 9% (or 13%) rate being too high. But it also means that it hasn't changed from what it is now.
Managed payments is slightly cheaper than PayPal for inexpensive items and TREMENDOUSLY cheaper for expensive items as the rate drops to 2.5% TOTAL for the price over $2500.
P.S. There really is undue paranoia about managed payments. Managed payments includes PayPal within it, so from a buyer perspective it creates more flexibility in payments. From a seller standpoint, the fees for payment processing are slightly cheaper than PayPal, so it is also very marginally better.
Very little changes with managed payments other than the way you get you money. Rather than going into your PayPal account immediately and then needing to be transferred to your bank account, if you want to withdraw it, the money goes into your checking account (after a couple days) where you then might need to transfer it to your PayPal account if you wish.
The biggest "negative" from the change might be that it takes an extra day to get the money into your checking account since PayPal transfers to my account usually only take one day.
From a buyer standpoint this is a significant improvement as you can now pay using a multiple of methods rather than only using PayPal.
I either missed or did see this question answer? Can you still use Pay-Pals?
The only temporary positive to managed payments IMHO is payment processing fees are refunded for now. I wonder how long that will last.
Ok- I'll admit to being lazy for not trying to find the answer myself first, but do you know how the timing of the transfer from eBay to your checking account works? Every day? Every week? Not until you request it? Or???
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/get-paid-managed-payments-seller?id=4814
Managed payments is just a payment processor. You can use PayPal as one of multiple means of paying for items as a buyer. You cannot use PayPal as your sole means of collecting funds if you are a seller.