One Penny RED British Copper
bidask
Posts: 14,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
All 65 Red except the 1912 which is a 66.
You would think with the mintage figures there would be more in these grades but no . How come ?
https://images.pcgs.com/TrueView/38758459_Large.jpg
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/38758458_179714429_450.jpg
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/38758461_179714471_450.jpg
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/38758460_179714464_450.jpg
I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
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Comments
A far smaller percentage of non-US coins have been slabbed than is the case with US coins. They are very nice examples of those dates!
Nice coins!
My current "Box of 20"
The reason there aren't more is because the world is bigger than just the TPG population reports which rely on mostly American patronage for their submissions. Couple that with 291fifth's observation and the numbers in non-US population reports are never likely to be great.
Although many collectors have examples of slabbed coins in their collections, most collectors in the UK are indifferent to the concept and certainly wouldn't go to the expense of getting their collection slabbed.
I think it's because general opinion of British Numismatic Trade Association (BNTA) members is that coins after 1900 are so prolific that the market is saturated. The good ones are few and far between and they focus instead on older coins or world coins.
Most dealers aren't too fussed whether a coin is in a slab or not as long as they can make money on it. Most will not put a premium on the coin based on the label. Most coins that do get slabbed are done with a view to selling into the US market. For 20th century coins, the raw price is not likely to be dissimilar to the slabbed price, so there's no reason to do so.
As for the above coins, the number of 20th century rarities is small and a healthy supply of top grade coins for most dates exists. The George Vs you would look for stronger hair detail and for the 1910 you wouldn't want the issues with weakness to Britannia, nor the marks on the cheek. The 1904 is the best date of the reign, so the bagmarks to the cheek and nose would likely be given a bit of leeway.
The rest of the world doesn't place the perceived grade rarity that some American collectors have fallen for. They look at true rarity, rather than how many have ended up in a piece of plastic with numbers on it.
I don’t recall seeing red examples like this that are raw.
Not saying they exist just have not seen them .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
agreed, I've seen so much mishandled raw AU/UNC British copper, it seems like preserving gemmy lustrous copper isn't as important a part of the collecting aesthetic as it is among collectors in the USA nowadays
When I lived in England I always bought red British copper as I thought the local market undervalued it relative to the US market. I sold much of it but have a few left.
Best piece I found was a fresh, red, 1841 halfpenny which graded 64RD
Latin American Collection
This is an interesting question with multiple partial answers that collectively answer... "How come?"
Coins in general from the reign of Edward VII were not saved in quantity with exception of 1902 and 1910. There was a greater interest in ancients and hammered coinage at that point in time.
Serious collectors are not compelled to slab these coins mainly because most do not see a condition rarity factor created by TPG, which in contrast, is a significant factor in the US Coin Market. So there is just not the same valuations placed the incremental increase in the grade. And this does not create a need to have these coins graded if there is a minimal opportunity to sell at a premium whereby the risk-rewards factor pays for itself. It really boils down to a question of economics and whether slabbing adds the appropriate premium that is fair and reflective of condition rarity. So currently, there seems to be a general perception that these coins fall short of being submission worthy. I am not saying I agree with this... but it is my observation . As an example, a MS 66 red 1904 Indian cent would sell for a significantly higher multiple than a MS 63 brown - There would easily be a difference of $1500 between the two coins- if not more. The same simply cannot be said of the difference in the valuation of a GB1904 1d between a 63 brown and a 66 red. The market is different based on collector interest and acceptance of what valuations should be.
I tend to believe original red examples from the reigns of Edward VII and George V are more challenging that most collectors believe. Collector appreciation for the actual surviving population that exists in red is heavily influenced by mintage figures and not the surviving population.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I tend to agree with CK, that red beauties are not really appreciated for how scarce they are - IMO while not super rarities or valued as such, they are just not that common. And that is fine with me if most don't appreciate that or if the price doesn't reflect that. It may come to pass that these attain a more highly valued level.
I also agree with some of what Rob said in that you should try to find well struck examples (ie through the breastplate area of Britannia or the details of E7 or G5). Ghosting seems not to bother many in the UK, but this is also IMO a detriment...
Well, just Love coins, period.
All very nice with the 1912 standing out. In particular the gown below the bodice. The detail on the 1912 is sharp and very much clearer than the other 65's. Thank you for sharing these gems.
I knew that the GV coins had an issue with "ghosting", the king's portrait on the obverse creating a void on the reverse when the coin was struck. I didn't realise that the EVII coins have a hint of the "ghosting" also. In the early 1920's the BRM reduced the size of GV's portrait and that eliminated most but not all of the "ghosting".
BTW those are lovely nice red BU coins.
They’re from the same era as the black soot covered buildings in London. Truly bad, moist air.....in no way conducive to the preservation of Red copper in a time when collectors kept coins in paper envelopes or trays.