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NEWPS MS62 Barber Quarter + AU58 Seated Quarter
CalifornianKing
Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭✭
After examine the seated quarter in hand it does lack luster and has a grainy surface which leads me to believe that it has been over filled in the past as people have suggested on the other page. I bought the barber quarter from a (well reviewed) member on r/coins4sale and when I examined it in hand I loved it. Can anyone enlighten me on why it’s only a MS62, it looks like easily a MS64, note the scratches on rev are on the holder. Also what’s with that gold pcgs sticker on the rev, older type holder? Cause I’m hoping the holder is real.
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The luster on the Barber looks flat, as if it’s been dipped one too many times. Plus a weak area in the strike on the reverse.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
The luster does look flat/dull and the bottom picture appears to show some marks on the cheek and neck. But the strike is perfectly acceptable and I doubt it had any negative impact on the assigned grade.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The luster is a bit flat, but the strike has nothing (or very little) to do with grades below MS65.
There are marks on the cheek/neck but they are very minor. I could barely see them with the naked eye. Had to use a 10x loop to see them and the minor hairlines in the field to the right of the bust.
“Hairlines”
I think you just answered the “62” question.
As mentioned, marks show in the bottom picture, and without such magnification.
You asked for opinions as to why the coin graded 62 and you’re getting them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
That holder is the Dupont holder, used from Jan 2014 to mid 2015.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
As the mega red states for MS64 hairlines that are visible under 10x magnification are acceptable...
Thank you for responding and giving me your opinion. I really appreciate you teaching me and helping me learn more about coins.
Thanks!
62 probably because luster is flat. Obviously there are exceptions but in general why buy a 62 when you can get a 63 for roughly the same price?
If you see a coin with minimal contact marks in a 62 holder it's either got a touch of wear or limited luster. Something caused it to go into a 62 holder they didn't miss on the fact that the surfaces we're minimally marked. In the case of your quarter it's probably been overdipped as mentioned and instead of calling it cleaned they netted it to a 62 instead.
For me personally and it's just my preference those are the exact types of coins I avoid. If I see a 62 it better be marked up like a 62 or it's not for me because luster is my #1 goal.
The Barber quarter, like the Seated quarter, has obviously been dipped. The luster is probably a bit impaired from the dip and there appears to be either dip residue on the obverse (from 4:00 to 7:00 o'clock) or that is the remnants of a stain that the dip could not remove. My guess on the Barber quarter is that there are hairlines we cannot see well in the images.
It's okay to like dipped silver and many, many folks adore it, but there is a line where dipping goes from revealing frosty mint flash to turning a coin dull and eventually lifeless. The two quarters shown are in the dull range, from the images, and that isn't always embraced by folks.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I saw it on reddit and just had to have it.
It's quite nice. I like luster as much as the next person, but I personally love this coin. There are some VERY minor hairlines to the right of the bust.
Bear in mind that in most series, a 62 mostly means a coin that is genuinely uncirculated and not ruinously ugly but has something compromising its appeal in one way or another. Previous posters have identified those factors in your MS62 Barber quarter, which on the other hand appears to my eye to be mostly pretty well struck and fairly free of marks for the grade. Here are some other graded 62's of the same issue (obverses only), images from Great Collections archives:
As you can see, yours is neither the best nor the worst of the lot. If clean surfaces and strike are the features that matter most to you, I think you did OK within the possibilities of the grade. If originality of surfaces or lively mint frost are the must-haves for you, maybe it's the wrong coin. You're getting a lot of input about how to be a real connoisseur. There are a lot of factors you have to balance as a collector -- budget, patience, access, your own aesthetic preferences, etc.
That Barber looks 64 and the Seated quarter is nice, too. I doubt that the luster (or lack thereof) had anything to do with the grade. It's all about strike and surface preservation below 65.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Maybe this comment is out of line, but you may regret these impulsive purchases when it comes time to sell. You already had a very close call with the counterfeit $3 you bought, and both of these quarters have surfaces that would not be acceptable to some buyers.
Personally, I’ve looked back at some of my purchases from a year or two ago and wondered what the hell I was thinking and I’ve taken a beating on some that I’ve sold. From what I can tell, the stakes you are playing at are higher (I saw your WTB post on the BST for $20 gold, etc.).
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Most coins pictured on these boards can be critiqued for their flaws, small or large especially as the pictures are expanded for high scrutiny. I’m glad you love your coin as you can see it in hand and can be regularly reminded of the attributes that drew your eye. I’m happy for you. Having fun is what it’s all about.
While you did ask for opinions, learn from them but don’t let it ruin your enjoyment. 👍
Graders are really good at finding hairlines and it probably wouldn’t take 10x.
And they probably don’t use the “mega red” as their grading orders.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Most likely not lol
You dont think luster or lack of luster below 65 matters? If you believe that in my opinion you severely underestimate what luster does to a grade positively and negatively. Pcgs even says coins with poor luster cant grade higher than 63 and typically grade 60-62.
Many of my converstations with john at cac have revolved around luster as well. It matters - a lot - at any UNC level.
The strike on your coin is good enough that it won't matter, but most definitely strike matters for coins below MS65. It may be that a bit of weakness doesn't mean much, but a notably weak strike can certainly lower the grade.
Out of curiosity, how many Barber quarters in this grade range (let's say 62-64) have you looked at? I have certainly bought coins that on first sight I had to have, but that's because I'd seen tons of other examples and knew the one I was looking at was special. There are many coins that may appear wonderful at first glance, but when you know how the coins of the series CAN look, they aren't as impressive. The advice you've received about not being impulsive is (I think) largely centered around this. It's fine to be excited about a coin, but you have to remember what you do and don't know. Ask yourself if your excitement is due to the coin being great relative to the other examples you've seen, of if it's just because in a vacuum, you think the coin looks good.
I happen to be torn regarding the design of Barber quarters. Nice examples can be super attractive and make the design look very pleasing, while ugly examples can really accent the wrong parts of the design. I own two, and there was about a 15 year gap between my buying the first and the second one. I wasn't looking for either coin specifically, but the opportunity presented itself, and both times I knew--having seen plenty of other coins--that what I was holding was special. Now, had I been specifically looking I'm sure I could have found one or both coins faster, but that's not the point. The key is that if you look at lots of coins and learn what really makes a good one, the next time you think "I have to have it" you'll be saying so with far more knowledge, and your instincts will be much more helpful.
@CalifornianKing, This is my 1916-D AU58 for comparison. I am sure I paid way more from CRO for this coin than you did for your MS62. I have found that nice Au58 with clean surfaces, lots of luster, and Original skin are almost always nicer than MS 62 coins. I also like the value in many MS64 coins with the right look. The thing are learned in the last 25 years is over paying for the right coin can make the loss you take selling in the future a lot less painful. It can be hard to sell coins for a fair amount if they are not wanted by most collectors. I am at the point in my collecting that I either breakout slabs for my Dansco or anything else higher end is PCGS CAC so my Heirs can sell them easily.
Thank you for your feedback. The truth is I looked at very little barbers in that grade range.
In addition to building a base for understanding how coins at a given grade look, looking at a range can give you an appreciation for when it is/isn't worth getting the next grade. For instance, I think the different between a 62 and 63 tends to be one of the biggest jumps in general for most series. Obviously every extra point brings something more to the table, but a decent 63 is, in my experience, very often going to be much nicer than a nice 62. Put another way, 60-62 tends to have something negative that makes it that grade. Along those lines, if you see enough coins to know that a nice 64 (as an example) is close to a 65 and there's a big price jump between the grades, the 64 may be a very good buy. On the other hand, maybe the spread between 64 and 65 isn't very large. If you're patient and wait for a nice 65, you may be well rewarded with a much better coin at a small price increase.
I'll illustrate the example with the first Barber quarter I bought. This is a coin that I adore. Superb lustre, wonderful color, nice strike. It's easily a 65 all day long, except it has a light staple scratch in the neck (which isn't as apparent in hand). On one hand, a scratch is a negative. On the other hand, it's clearly old because the scratch has toned along with the rest of the coin (a new scratch would show fresh metal and be very distracting). This is a case where the issue was minor enough that the grade was dropped (it's an NGC MS63) rather than the coin being in a details holder (or totally ungraded, since details holders didn't exist back when I got the coin). But here's where knowledge helps. A Barber in 63 can come in a variety of ways. Most will have a fair amount of chatter. Luster may or may not be full. This coin has almost none of that chatter and a lot of the positives of a higher grade going for it. The downside is that scratch, but I can say without a doubt that on the whole, this coin is much nicer than your average 63. I paid a premium for the color, but if the coin were a higher grade, I'd have paid a LOT more (it was from a group of similarly toned coins where most were higher grade pieces, so I say that with surety), and if the coin were a standard 63 (with the same color) I'd have probably paid just about the same. So with all that in mind, I got a really nice example for the grade and didn't pay more than I would have for a lesser example. And the result? A coin I bought in 2004 is one that still makes me smile every time I pick it up, even as my tastes have become refined over the years since.
Great grade on the Seated Quarter! The Barber quarter is nice too.
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Excellent advice given above... I will say, it is difficult for new collectors to maintain such discipline while in their early collecting stages. For me, luster is important - though not the only criteria. Strike, condition and design are also criteria important to me (and others). Study the series that interests you... Look at lots of coins... with the internet, this is readily available (though never as good as in hand, such as at shows/shops). Good luck... Cheers, RickO
Really attractive Barber quarter there, @willy ! Looks like a CRO special.
What's a CRO special?
The exact type of coin CRO (Coin Rarities Online) frequently offers. Attractive surfaces/toning in an OGH w/sticker.
Yes CRO. Not always the cheapest but every coin I have bought from them is extremely nice
Honestly I'm seriously tempted to sell some of my lesser quality coins and some silver and then try to snag one. How much of a mark-up is a CRO coin?
It really depends on the coin. I find some of the premiums completely justified and others a bit of a stretch (for me). Your best bet is probably to sign up for their Early Bird e-mail. You could also just search their current inventory, which would at least give you some idea of the pricing paradigm.
Looked at their inventory and it's out of my price range/ not my type of coins. Very nice coins tho!
You’re one of several posters who has used “mark-up”, when really speaking about “premium”, which is not the same thing.
Mark-up is “the amount added to the cost price of goods to cover overhead and profit.”
Premium is “a sum added to an ordinary price or charge.”
Here are a couple of examples:
A dealer might pay a large premium for a coin, due to its quality and/or eye appeal. But he might mark it up (over his cost) by only a small amount. Or he might buy a coin at no premium, but mark it up by a significant amount.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
So true. Also, consider how normal it is for the teenage brain to be impulsive!