Is artificial toning used to cover damage on key dates?

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goldrealmoney79
goldrealmoney79 Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Maybe its just me but whenever I see blatant AT on a key date especially higher grades I assume its to cover a cleaning or other pmd. Am i mistaken? For example this coin why AT such a high grade 1889 CC, why else would you do it?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1889-CC-CARSON-CITY-RARE-DATE-TONED-MORGAN-SILVER-DOLLAR-SILVER-COIN-US-SK975/184499132878?hash=item2af50159ce%3Ag%3AwxkAAOSw-ABfkQ6i&LH_Auction=1

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  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2020 5:37PM
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    A coin might be artificially toned in order to hide cleaning, marks/flaws, tooling, etc. and/or to try to add value in the form of attractiveness/beauty.

    Edited to add: Common dates are by no means, immune from such activity.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • smallchange
    smallchange Posts: 194 ✭✭✭
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    He actually says that the coin has been cleaned in his description

    Successful BST transactions with lkenefic, AnkurJ, ajia, stephunter, No lawyer
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2020 4:36PM
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    @smallchange said:
    He actually says that the coin has been cleaned in his description

    That sounds like a good, very unusual seller!

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,914 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:
    I’m sorry I saw that.

    Me too. :D

  • Hydrant
    Hydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Somebody might do that.🤔

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,914 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @GoldenEgg said:
    Many people collect AT’d coins. You need to AT the keys to get a complete set. ;)

    A set of true "monsters" to be sure

  • Mr_Spud
    Mr_Spud Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    In these examples the AT magnifies the damage present on the underlying coins. They look like the coin doctors practice coins that messed up.

    Mr_Spud

  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:
    I’m sorry I saw that.

    Me too. :D

    It appears to be the end product from an Easter egg coloring kit.

    I can’t imagine that sulfur did that, although it does look like Hell.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Smudge said:

    @MFeld said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:
    I’m sorry I saw that.

    Me too. :D

    It appears to be the end product from an Easter egg coloring kit.

    I can’t imagine that sulfur did that, although it does look like Hell.

    I can’t either. I was joking about Easter egg dye (from a kit), not sulfur from eggs.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Those coins lend new dimensions to the word ugly..... Actually hideous and nasty. Cheers, RickO

  • OldIndianNutKase
    OldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The vast majority of this eBay seller's coins are blast white Morgans. I think that the buyer got a really good deal on a 89-CC for $1,316.00. Probably can dip it to get rid of the color and sell it for twice as much.

    OINK

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    The vast majority of this eBay seller's coins are blast white Morgans. I think that the buyer got a really good deal on a 89-CC for $1,316.00. Probably can dip it to get rid of the color and sell it for twice as much.

    OINK

    Wouldn't it depend on what's hiding under the toning?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • OldIndianNutKase
    OldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    The vast majority of this eBay seller's coins are blast white Morgans. I think that the buyer got a really good deal on a 89-CC for $1,316.00. Probably can dip it to get rid of the color and sell it for twice as much.

    OINK

    Wouldn't it depend on what's hiding under the toning?

    You have to look at it as a Christmas gift. Might be a details coin but after you unwrap it ????????

  • golden
    golden Posts: 10,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have been in Numismatics for almost 60 years. Those are the ugliest coins that I have ever seen.

  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2020 9:55AM
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    The coins above are simply culls IMO that appear (attempted) enhanced by coin doc.

    The more money the coin doc can make more likely AT. Be especially careful on big ticket items.

    In reality toners are tarnished (will get worse with time) material many really ugly in my view. Bc of the popularity of that area sadly many coin doctors mess w them.

    Focus on unblemished material that is brilliant, PQ with super cartwheel luster.

    Investor
  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:
    A coin might be artificially toned in order to hide cleaning, marks/flaws, tooling, etc. and/or to try to add value in the form of attractiveness/beauty.

    Edited to add: Common dates are by no means, immune from such activity.

    Agree 100% with this.

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,914 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @OldIndianNutKase said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    The vast majority of this eBay seller's coins are blast white Morgans. I think that the buyer got a really good deal on a 89-CC for $1,316.00. Probably can dip it to get rid of the color and sell it for twice as much.

    OINK

    Wouldn't it depend on what's hiding under the toning?

    You have to look at it as a Christmas gift. Might be a details coin but after you unwrap it ????????

    More like the Halloween special: Trick or treat?

  • kaz
    kaz Posts: 9,378 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    cameonut, please add a warning about charred retinas to the above photo post! B)

  • trueblood
    trueblood Posts: 609 ✭✭✭✭
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    Allow me to list all the problems with this seller:
    Terrible ebay sales history of selling cleaned coins along with other problems and misdeeds
    He does state it was cleaned, but it is squeezed into his description and it is only stated deep inside his listing, it can easily be missed
    It appears it isn't really sold, but sold to a bidder with zero bids and just created, same goes for the underbidder
    All his investors is similarly AT and blatantly AT like a colorized coin
    I would agree he is selling psychedelic silver culls attempting to receive astronomical prices
    Makes th hobby look terrible

  • goldrealmoney79
    goldrealmoney79 Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
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    @trueblood really great detective work. I didnt notice all that
    @Cameonut I had a good laugh at the epilepsy warning. But at the same time felt sad about these fried coins and unfortunate ppl who buy them.

  • Cameonut
    Cameonut Posts: 7,436 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @goldrealmoney79 said:
    @trueblood really great detective work. I didnt notice all that
    @Cameonut I had a good laugh at the epilepsy warning. But at the same time felt sad about these fried coins and unfortunate ppl who buy them.

    You have me confused with Cameonut2011 who copied my user name in 2011.
    I would never make the comment he did on a public forum. Having epilepsy is nothing to joke about.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,914 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Cameonut said:

    @goldrealmoney79 said:
    @trueblood really great detective work. I didnt notice all that
    @cameonut2011 I had a good laugh at the epilepsy warning. But at the same time felt sad about these fried coins and unfortunate ppl who buy them.

    I would never make the comment he did on a public forum. Having epilepsy is nothing to joke about.

    The joke wasn't directed at the infirm. It was directed at the horrendous and psychedelic colors on the obviously ATed botch jobs I posted. I thought that was obvious. I would never make fun of someone's medical issues. I'm not that callous.

  • BLUEJAYWAY
    BLUEJAYWAY Posts: 11,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Smudge said:

    @MFeld said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:
    I’m sorry I saw that.

    Me too. :D

    It appears to be the end product from an Easter egg coloring kit.

    I can’t imagine that sulfur did that, although it does look like Hell.

    Hell may have more truer colors. :)

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • Smudge
    Smudge Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @BLUEJAYWAY said:

    @Smudge said:

    @MFeld said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:
    I’m sorry I saw that.

    Me too. :D

    It appears to be the end product from an Easter egg coloring kit.

    I can’t imagine that sulfur did that, although it does look like Hell.

    Hell may have more truer colors. :)

    Maybe, but I am not in a hurry to find out.

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