Do you think this medal is really Silver??

keets

The medal pictured below is being auctioned by Heritage as HK-12a, to commemorate the Pacific Railway Completion and issued in 1869 and subsequent years by the U.S. Mint. Heritage and PCGS insert both note it as being Silver while it has the clear appearance of being Bronze. What am I missing??

Tell me what you think, is it really Silver but toned unlike anything I've ever seen or is it a PCGS "mechanical error" followed by the same Heritage mistake??

Al H.

link to PCGS cert page --- https://pcgs.com/cert/40408861

link to Heritage auction --- https://coins.ha.com/itm/so-called-dollars/tokens-and-medals/1869-medal-pacific-railway-completion-silver-hk-12a-j-cm-39-r6-sp61-pcgs-pcgs-population-0-0-ngc-census-0-0-/p/1326-154001.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

jmlanzaf

Dark toning. (Bad truview?) The Heritage photo definitely looks silver.

MFeld

Too bad you don't know anyone there who could check it, once the lots have been numbered and are accessible.

TurtleCat

My first thought is it was antiqued.

ricko

Looking at the pictures, I do see the color variance.... but cannot really determine anything conclusively. Cheers, RickO

Smudge

611201. Says copper.

MFeld

@Smudge said:
611201. Says copper.

Where? I see "silver" on their site: https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/794?l=u-s-mint-medals-0&ccid=0&p=SP&sn=611201&pn=2&ps=100

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@Smudge said:
611201. Says copper.

Where? I see "silver" on their site: https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/794?l=u-s-mint-medals-0&ccid=0&p=SP&sn=611201&pn=2&ps=100

When you click on the 611201 it (oddly) says "copper" under metal. Although the picture looks clearly silver. LOL

amwldcoin

I could see it being silver! I doubt I would dispute the certification and I have seen silver surfaces look that way.

Smudge

@MFeld said:

@Smudge said:
611201. Says copper.

Where? I see "silver" on their site: https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/794?l=u-s-mint-medals-0&ccid=0&p=SP&sn=611201&pn=2&ps=100

PCGS #

MFeld

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:

@Smudge said:
611201. Says copper.

Where? I see "silver" on their site: https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/794?l=u-s-mint-medals-0&ccid=0&p=SP&sn=611201&pn=2&ps=100

When you click on the 611201 it (oddly) says "copper" under metal. Although the picture looks clearly silver. LOL

And yet, when you click on the PCGS number, at the top of the page that comes up it says:
"(1869) Medal J-CM-39 Silver Pacific Railroad (Special Strike)"

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@MFeld said:

@Smudge said:
611201. Says copper.

Where? I see "silver" on their site: https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/category/794?l=u-s-mint-medals-0&ccid=0&p=SP&sn=611201&pn=2&ps=100

When you click on the 611201 it (oddly) says "copper" under metal. Although the picture looks clearly silver. LOL

And yet, when you click on the PCGS number, at the top of the page that comes up it says:
"(1869) Medal J-CM-39 Silver Pacific Railroad (Special Strike)"

yup

Does it matter if you aren't going to melt it?

MFeld

A cataloguer just viewed the lot and believes it to be silver. He also noted that it looks much closer to the image that shows the holder, too.

Smudge

@MFeld said:
A cataloguer just viewed the lot and believes it to be silver. He also noted that it looks much closer to the image that shows the holder, too.

Odd.

jmlanzaf

@Smudge said:

@MFeld said:
A cataloguer just viewed the lot and believes it to be silver. He also noted that it looks much closer to the image that shows the holder, too.

Odd.

Why? Truviews aren't always spot-on

Smudge

@jmlanzaf said:

@Smudge said:

@MFeld said:
A cataloguer just viewed the lot and believes it to be silver. He also noted that it looks much closer to the image that shows the holder, too.

Odd.

Why? Truviews aren't always spot-on

I thought it odd that the slab said silver while the PCGS # listened it as copper. As rare as it is, does it matter that much?

jmlanzaf

@Smudge said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Smudge said:

@MFeld said:
A cataloguer just viewed the lot and believes it to be silver. He also noted that it looks much closer to the image that shows the holder, too.

Odd.

Why? Truviews aren't always spot-on

I thought it odd that the slab said silver while the PCGS # listened it as copper. As rare as it is, does it matter that much?

well, sometimes it is even rarer in an off-metal. I'm not that familiar with that particular medal, although it is quite attractive.

keets

HK-12 Bronze. 45mm. Julian CM-39. 496 struck.
HK-12a Silver. Proof. Julian CM-39. 126 struck.
HK-12b Gilt Bronze. Thick planchet 5.2mm.

Jimnight

From looking at the pics .. it don't look like silver.

abcde12345

@Jimnight said:
From looking at the pics .. it don't look like silver.

jmlanzaf

@Jimnight said:
From looking at the pics .. it don't look like silver.

The picture in the holder does

keets

to me, all the pictures of the medal look like Bronze examples and I've owned some of those.

MedalCollector

That gasket is horrid!

Icollecteverything

It kind of looks like an "antiqued" finish but I doubt that's what it is.

jmski52

It does have an antiqued look. Maybe Dcarr has some insight.

ElKevvo

Either way it is a beautiful medal...

K

sellitstore

Is there a difference in weight?

gonzer

Exquisite engraving on the reverse.

keets

designed and engraved by William Barber.

DCW

Looks awfully brown for silver.

CaptHenway

(and a voice cried out from the desert)

"SOMEBODY SHOULD HAVE DONE A SPECIFIC GRAVITY TEST ON IT!!!!"

YQQ

Any decent Jeweller will have an XRF machine to check the metal com[position.
eliminates all the guessing.

jmlanzaf

@CaptHenway said:
(and a voice cried out from the desert)

"SOMEBODY SHOULD HAVE DONE A SPECIFIC GRAVITY TEST ON IT!!!!"

What insider would yell that?

WillieBoyd2

I have a San Francisco Samuel Bridge silver school medal from 1895 which has become black over the years.

Samuel Bridge Medal awarded to Frank O'Donnell in 1895
Silver, 34 mm, 18.75 gm

MedalCollector

It does not look like 19th century US Mint bronzed copper. There isn’t enough brown color. And those medals were usually much more uniform in color; this example ranges from black in the devices to grayish-brown in the fields.

My guess is that in hand it is not so ambiguous.