Grading MS Walkers
oldUScoins
Posts: 232 ✭✭✭✭
I'm curious about Mint State grading of Walking Liberty Half dollars. What do graders look at to determine the difference in MS65, 66 and 67? I have a MS66 below that is CAC and seems to have as many marks as a MS63 I have.
Thoughts? I'm definitely missing something ...
0
Comments
I have wondered much the same thing.
I have seen feathers on the eagle’s breast look better on 64’s than 66’s.
I agree as well. I have a NGC 62 that looks as good as many of my 64's both PC and NGC
Any hairlines are major grade defects; strike; upper surface friction, eye appeal, etc.. Graders know what they are doing.
I would have guessed MS65 for the pictured coin. Are you able to post pictures of your MS63?
Among factors other than marks that affect grade are luster, hairlines, stacking friction, eye-appeal and strike.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Luster seems to trump everything else. I’m assuming this is a major constituent of “eye appeal”.
Myself, I favor strike and clean surfaces. But I’m just a collector, not a grader. Also realize that grades aren’t set in stone. The same coin may be 65 today, but could be a 64 or 66 tomorrow, if cracked and resubmitted.
Here is the ms63 and below that the slab of the ms66:
Thank you. There looks to be quite a bit of disturbance in the right obverse field of your MS63. That’s my guess as to why it didn’t grade higher.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed. The marks on the reverse probably didn't help, either.
The fields to the right of Miss Liberty are a major factor. All the chatter in the field there on your 63 is why it grades that. The sun is also an important area for 65 and above. It seems to me, hits on the details determine more on the ms66 and above. This is more the technical part of it all, but as Walkerguy21 states luster is huge.
Bst transactions with: dimeman, oih82w8, mercurydimeguy, dunerlaw, Lakesammman, 2ltdjorn, MattTheRiley, dpvilla, drddm, CommemKing, Relaxn, Yorkshireman, Cucamongacoin, jtlee321, greencopper, coin22lover, coinfolio, lindedad, spummybum, Leeroybrown, flackthat, BryceM, Surfinxhi, VanHalen, astrorat, robkool, Wingsrule, PennyGuy, al410, Ilikecolor, Southcounty, Namvet69, Commemdude, oreville, Leebone
Yes, the 63 has significant abrasions in the right-facing, obverse field. The luster doesn't look as good, either. The 66 has nice crescent toning, which also probably helped it get the bump.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set:
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
A few thoughts:
Start with four focal points for contact marks: 1. Right obverse field; 2. Liberty’s head; 3. Liberty’s hands and upper skirt lines (note the 2 big gashes in your 63) and 4. The sun. Note all are on obverse.
Luster and strike can establish a ceiling for grade.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I pulled this 1920 D out of the ground on my property. Does anyone have an opinion on getting it graded?
Seems like it could be worthwhile. This one graded PCGS AU50/CAC and sold for over a thousand dollars.
Nice! Mine is a bit crusty. I’m no coin expert but the details on my 1920 D seem to be in good shape. It’s not brilliant but the details are sharp and it doesn’t look like it circulated for long at all. I found it with a 1908 Barber dime and a 1918 nickel right next to it. it seems to have a bit of luster left. I rinsed the dirt off of it in the sink. No scrubbing or chemicals used on it. We’ll see what PCGS thinks. Thank you MasonG!
@oldUScoins .... Thanks for the additional pictures. As pointed out above, if you look carefully, the difference in grades is obvious - well, to more experienced graders. Use those examples as good learning material. Cheers, RickO
@Ron1968 .... Welcome aboard...That WLH is a very nice ground find...Looks as if it will straight grade. Show us when it is done... Cheers, RickO
Will do ricko! Thanks!
Thanks to all the responses. Yes that is my plan Ricko- I have 2 ms63 and 2 ms66 and will spend some time studying them. I’d like to be able to grade them myself - at least be in the ballpark.
@oldUScoins ... You are on the right track.... And, if you notice, in reading other threads... Even among those who have been doing this for a long time, opinions differ. That is because grading is based on opinions, not measurable science. That being said, learned opinions can be consistent, as knowledge/experience grows. Cheers, RickO
@Ron1968 that is an incredible find. It is in remarkable condition. I’d send it in for sure. It should grade somewhere in the AU range.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set:
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Agree, and I sent him a PM, as I’d be interested in buying it after it grades!
Walkerfan, it is on its way to PCGS. Thanks
Out of the ground? Dayum!
It was about 3” deep in the dirt of the front yard of the rental house on my property. Rang as a big silver tone on my Minelab. I was very carful pulling it out of the ground. I pulled it out and thought oh, 50 cents. I rinsed some of the dirt off with running water. I started reading about the Walkers and compared it to PCGS photos. Looked at the thumb on the left hand, head of Liberty, lines on Liberty’s skirt, left leg wear, details on the sandals, breast area of Liberty, feathers on the eagle etc. seemed like a sharp coin for having probably been buried for 100 years. Here it is a few minutes after I found it with the Barber dime and nickel it was with. I also have a 1920 Penny that was in the ground with these coins too.
Agreed. I don't think the 63 is even close to the 66.
[Disclaimer: I also think 66 is generous with the big distractor on the skirt and the small cluster of dings on the wing.]
OldUScoins, sorry to crowd your post. I really didn’t mean to do that. Ron
No problem 😉 welcome!
Great find on the coin spill! Never found a silver half detecting- yet. Just bought a Minelab Equinox but only got one short outing before the cold set in here in upstate NY. Finds like that is what keeps me detecting! Closest I came to something like that was also dated 1920, but a mercury dime, unfortunately I scrubbed it on reverse at first, it was a very nice AU details coin as well, figured it was going to be in the 1940's and was shocked when I see the 1920 date.
Kevinstang, that equinox is a great machine! Keep hunting!!
Bruce Fox breaks down grading of Walkers into 4 main areas: Skirt lines, Head, Hand, and the reverse Eagle's breast. Table 3-1 in his book lists about 17 years with strike issues. The ANA guide breaks it down a bit more with prime and secondary focal areas to look for. Anthony Swiatek says the most important part of the coin to determine between MS and AU is Liberty's left breast, says wear shows there first. Dean Howe doesn't comment really on grading, but is a good read anyways. All three books are great references for Walkers.
One more thing, as mentioned above strike is very much dependent on year, mint and design. There were subtle changes in design. The thing I dislike most about those affected Walkers is a super frosty minty surface, with flat non-existent hand and gown lines.
The 1920 D graded at AU55
Your fingers are dirty!
After putting together a late date set of 66 to 68 MS walkers I've found the following weigh heavily on this series with PCGS graders
marks or lack there of in the right obverse field (very sensitive)
marks of lack there of on the sun
Lustre or lack of lustre
Great color gets a bigger bump as Walkers with truly great color are somewhat scarce
Lesser weight on any marks on the Eagle to a degree
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I’m not a coin collector. I compared my coin to PCGS pictures and showed it to people who know a lot more about coins than I and they said to send it in... I found the coin on my property metal detecting. Yes oreville. My fingers were dirty. I was digging for for coins... 😃