How to price extreme NT (toning) coins. lets discuss..
Silvermahomes
Posts: 1 ✭
Hey everyone!
Silvermahomes here, I am a avid collector of Morgan Silver Dollars, as well as other USA coins, I particularly enjoy collection naturally toned coins or known sometimes at NTs Toners, Etc. HOWEVER it can be very hard to do because of the wide range of toning. I know things are "only worth what people will pay for it" but what I mean is for example I enclosed 2 pictures, each are the same coin, grade everything besides 2 things the coin grading company which both PCGS and NGC are compatible with pricing. The big difference is the toning HOWEVER if you look them up in the priceguide, they both are going to say the same price (around $80-$100 tops) again, HOWEVER the second picture with the toning with is what the star means on the slab. The NGC coin could bring double,triple or even more compared to its counterpart. I know each toner is unique and the "sub" population much smaller then a regular MS coin. I find myself going nuts for an extreme toned coins like in pic # 3.
sooo please tell me what you guys and gals say about toning, are there any standards for pricing them? i know the more balanced and seminary of the toning makes if more valuable
Thanks everyone!!
I am new to this site but not to collecting
I have a Youtube channel all about coins etc:
SILVERBULL30
https://www.youtube.com/user/Ktodaylea
Comments
What the market will bear. Some collectors will pay significant premiums for toning and some won't. Coins toned on one side only will do better if they are toned on the obverse,
Toning as a premium in only one side of the coin in my opinion. I would not pay extra for reverse toning. So, keep that in mind when you purchase coins. The money side is the obverse.
bob
Toning is most often a one way market. Retail will charge you a pretty penny but it can be quite hard to get the penny back. Not impossible If they are monsters at open auction but still.. be careful
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@Silvermahomes .... Welcome aboard.... I only collect blast white coins.... as minted condition as far as tarnish is concerned. Tarnish is environmental damage and I do not want it in my collection. Cheers, RickO
You might want to visit some of the Indian and Lincoln registry sets for toned coins. Lots of gtreat toners in those sets and it does indicate a sincere and dedicated market for toned coins. Don't misss my set (Paha Sapa Indians in Indian Proof Basic Set.
OINK
I am shocked, shocked I tell you.
I haven't found any kind of standard on pricing toners. I know that online, the better the picture/video, the better the price (probably true for all coins). Eye appeal value is in the wallet of the beholder. There was a guy who came up with a Morgan toning(pricing?) scale and his video was posted here awhile back. I think the idea had mixed reviews here, IIRC, but it might be something to look at, if someone can remember better than me.
Welcome to the forum. Checked out and subscribed to your channel.
Are there any standards for ranking them? I'm not sure it's possible, but you'd need to start there.
Your GEM 1887 Morgan is mezmorizing.
The star actually stands for good eye appeal in the opinion of the grader. It does not stand for toning as non toned coins also get stars.
I could not disagree with this any more loudly. There is a broad base of toner collectors in most any series and it is in no manner a one way market. Yes, toned coins tend to be over-hyped a bit, just be selective.
I agree entirely that good pics/video are key, especially for toners. I bought two nice rainbow Peace $1 that I paid under $100 each for (both MS64 NGC); one I sold a few years ago for $330 on ebay, the other one I still have. Both are rainbow obverse and reverse.
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way to go, spamming this place with your first post!!
Pricing anything that is thinly traded is tough. Toned Morgans are a subset of Morgans, but they aren't really that uncommon compared to many other sectors of the hobby. You can easily do research regarding prices paid at auction for toned examples, so that's a great place to start. Many hundreds (thousands?) have sold in Legend, HA, and Stacks auctions over the last 2-3 years. It shouldn't be too hard to get a ballpark understanding of the market. Every toner is unique, of course, but the same can be said of just about any coin.
Collect and enjoy whatever you like, but just remember that any one segment of the market can rise or fall drastically in price based on the whims of the collector base.
In my experience, toned coins are usually easy to sell, but not always for the price you'd like to get. Also, don't forget the technical grade. A beautiful, properly graded MS67 Morgan is still a gorgeous and valuable coin even if the toning premium goes away. Pretty, common-date MS62 Morgans may not appeal to anyone if the toning fad looses steam.
Has @Silvermahomes discussed anything? > @keets said:
😜
I look at and analyze auction results and how other dealers price theirs, get a high, average, and mean pct for premium then look at individual ones and get feel of situation. Then compare mine to some of his.....and price accordingly and a little less be competitive lol. It takes some doing your homework - no free ride on the bourse. Practice improves results. One rather popular well known dealer I probably spent all day or more dissecting his online inventory vs bid, auction, Collx PG, etc.
Brazen.
IMO, superbly attractive toning can bring coins in either holders premium up to 10x, but your question is a difficult one to answer as it is so subjective and depends on the bidders fighting over a coin. Overall, people seem to go nuts for target toned rainbows, similar to the last one. Crescent toning is another popular pattern. However, as people have already stated, toned morgans are fairly common, so check auction records. You will also see higher premiums on obverse toning compared to reverse toning.
Exceptionally PQ Lustrous coins with exquisite gold or russet toning have done well for me.
OK . . . . .
Initially . . . I am a biased poster. I own 'Bag Burn', a Morgan toner of some note that has been evaluated by previous owners of "the best" Morgan toner(s) in existence at roughly 'double' the eye-appeal or premium. It can be researched here and has been photographed by Todd, where it literally stopped a major national show in its tracks. I have not sold it or shopped it around after owning it for 8 years.
To me . . . toning on coins is a hallmark of history as whether end-roll, bag, manila envelope, or Wayte Raymond . . . the toning we see is emblematic of a historical significance. I teach English, but am truly a 'misplaced' history teacher. I love the thought of holding, displaying, or owning a piece of history that has been handed down, unmolested, from generation to generation. Silver surfaces (or copper, etc.) may display evidence of storage and handling that tells us things that previous long-dead owners would love to say if they could. I do NOT believe that our hobby and treasured pieces need to mirror stamps, cards, Persian rugs, art, or any other collectible. Yes . . if a Persian rug discolored, altered, or diminished . . . it would affect the value, but in OUR hobby . . . a patina of age is not necessarily the kiss of death, but in fact, may propel the coin into desirability at a factor that would be hard to fathom.
How does one rank or value the toning a coin may have? Well, it depends upon many factors. First, is the toning real? Second, does it signify some storage or source method that is historically obvious or significant? Lastly, is the eye-appeal of the toning something that the average competent numismatist would appreciate? If so . . . the premiums on the toning may be dramatic.
Toning does not seem to be 'linear' as a price factor. There are many types of toning (insert your favorite adjective here) that may command a 2-3x factor in average price (i.e. a $60 Morgie selling for $150 -- that happens at every show a myriad of times). Then, the next step would be those coins with toning that becomes a FOCAL point of price. Beautiful target toning on a Classic coin, or a semi-rarity with obvious toning attesting to its originality are a couple of examples. That might be 3-5X the untoned price. Lastly, there are the 'trophy' toners . . those that through chance have happened to survive in a condition that indicates toning alone affects the price to an inordinate amount.
Info above in previous posts is more than accurate. Obv - Rev . . . authenticity of toning . . . eye-appeal . . . it all is good advice.
But an answer to pricing toning??? You will need to look at a plethora of sources . . . look at how camera shots of coins reveal color in various circumstances . . . look at how grade affects the overall price . . . and what the series is that is being discussed.
I love the better toners . . . . . and I am glad you do too . . .
Drunner
It really boils down to what the market will bear. If a beautifully toned coin is sold on the internet the pictures being accurate are everything. Ten times or more a standard coin of the same type and quality isn't unreasonable.
Nice toning!