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HEY KIDS! YOU KNOW WHAT DAY IT IS!!?? mÉTαL pºRÑ FRIDAY!

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 24, 2023 5:34PM in Precious Metals

May I present to you the latest addition to what is becoming an increasingly difficult stack to add to:

The Sheffield Smelting Co., Ltd 50 troy ounce .999 silver bar, with Mocatta & Goldsmid counter mark:

Sheffield Smelting of Sheffield, England is one of the oldest precious metals refineries in the world, in continuous operation since 1760. They started as a small firm and eventually grew to over 150 employees during the industrial revolution of the late 1800s to early 1900s. In 1974 they were purchased by Engelhard, and produced co-branded Sheffield/Engelhard bullion for a decade before being sold and eventually re-merging with another Engelhard subsidiary (Engelhard-Clal). Today they operate the same business under the name Thessco in the same location they've occupied since 1787!

Moses Mocatta started his bullion business in London in 1671. The company changed its name to Mocatta & Goldsmid when Asher Goldsmid joined the firm in 1787. They, too, still exist, now known as ScotiaMocatta.

I purchased a 100 ounce Sheffield Smelting old pour "bathtub" style bar from my local B&M over a decade ago, and it's still one of my favorite bullion bars. I've reached pretty much what I want in terms of a metals stack. I don't feel I'm lacking much in order to protect my other assets and my family. So as with my coin collection and the "box of 20" style of collecting I adopted several years ago, I'm trying to limit my further accumulations to pieces that I really, really like: Liquid, interesting, old, original skin, and no more than a moderate premium if I can help it.

I reached out to the guys at allengelhard to ask their opinion about an age on this bar. They gave a range of 1970-1972, so right at 50 years old. They have a little information about Sheffield, primarily as it relates to Engelhard:

http://allengelhard.com/item/1-kilo-ag-extruded-sheffield-smelting-a0279/

And though Sheffield isn't yet one of their "other refiners" currently, they told me they hope to add Sheffield soon.

If you're a collector of vintage bars, you've likely seen the M&G countermark on early Engelhard and Johnson Matthey pieces.

We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

Comments

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2020 2:00PM

    Since the covid shutdown of our HQ campus I noticed I hadn't worn a watch since March. Broke this guy out this week for a couple outings. Got it as a gift for myself a few years back for 10 yrs working for some sugar water beverage co. Made up there in Motor City.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love that bar Weiss!

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's really nice, @asheland . A lot more scarce than my boxed JM 100 oz bars!

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like that 50oz JM in the picture, @Weiss

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,425 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neat bars.

    Young Numismatist/collector
    73 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 44 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss said:
    Thanks, man. I like that very last image of the 50 and 100, with the matte color of the 50 ounce and the bright surfaces of the 100. That's the clearest image of the markings on the 100 I've been able to take--something about the reflections off of the bar don't allow for clear images. But the 50 must give it just enough contrast to focus.

    Super cool!

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool thing about this bar is that I wouldn't have it if it weren't for that Foster bar I posted recently, and for "Tom's First Law of Numismatics" mentioned on the main coin forum some time ago:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1027367/toms-first-law-of-numismatics

    tldr: Tom's Law: The longer you've been in the hobby, the more scarce is an item you're likely to encounter for the first time. So assuming you've been in the stacking/bullion game or the coin game for a long time, if you encounter something you like that you haven't seen before, buy it. Because you're not likely to see it again for that length of time.

    I mentioned that I'd been contacted by several people after the Foster bar sold, asking if I had others (I don't, nobody does ;) )

    Then a few days ago, I came across this 50 ounce bar and, unbelievably, another by the same seller. Both had just closed--and I'd missed them :(

    But remembering my experience with the Foster bar, I reached out to the seller to ask if he had any others. Sadly, he didn't. Nice guy, very apologetic. I hadn't really expected he had others, I was just hoping. No harm or foul for asking.

    Then 2 days later, he texted me to say the buyer was a no-show. Was I still interested? I just had a feeling, I'm glad I asked!

    We arranged a price and he shipped to me FedEx overnight at no charge.

    Incidentally, if anyone knows of another 50 ounce Sheffield, I'd be really interested to learn about it. I'm sure there are others out there. But I've never seen one outside of these two.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2023 5:35PM

    @asheland said:
    I like that 50oz JM in the picture, @Weiss

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice! You couldn't ask for a better skin on that bar!

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My 10oz matches it well: >:)

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Weiss... Those are really nice silver bars... and with history. I am not a collector of those, but like to see them. Cheers, RickO

  • LukeMarshallLukeMarshall Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020 4:18PM

    Very nice old poured bullion bars... right up my alley. @Weiss , I really like the Sheffield smelting Co. 50oz as well as it’s heavier sibling. I wonder if they have them in kilos, or if the Engelhard London kilos with the moccatta stamps came from the facility in place of the Sheffield stamp.
    Y’all have a great weekend

    It's all about what the people want...

  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LukeMarshall said:
    Very nice old poured bullion bars... right up my alley. @Weiss , I really like the Sheffield smelting Co. 50oz as well as it’s heavier sibling. I wonder if they have them in kilos, or if the Engelhard London kilos with the moccatta stamps came from the facility in place of the Sheffield stamp.
    Y’all have a great weekend

    An example of a Sheffield / Engelhard kilo. It's really neat, and it's apparently quite scarce (AE estimates fewer than 100 made). Judging by how it fits in with the rest of the Engelhard kilos, I suspect it must have been one of the first extruded bars rather than being poured. I'd ask AE, but I feel I've eaten enough of their time recently :)

    _1 KILO extruded bar in portrait variation with Sheffield Smelting counterstamp. Example presented was sourced directly from Great Britain in December, 2014, from a private collection.
    _

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TPGS .... You are missing the 16G bar.... ;) Cheers, RickO

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TPGS said:

    Are those Gecko bars?

  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    @asheland said:

    @TPGS said:

    Are those Gecko bars?

    Yes they are.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's cool! I remember when he was making those...

  • TPGSTPGS Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @TPGS .... You are missing the 16G bar.... ;) Cheers, RickO

    I never was much of a set builder. All are numbered on the back. 007 is my favorite number.

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TPGS Those First Spouses look familiar!

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