Home World & Ancient Coins Forum

How does a in-collar, rotated double-struck error happen?

ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 30, 2020 5:07AM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

Just ran across this interesting error. It's neat that the double struck denomination is rotated 90 degrees.

PCGS calls this a “Double Struck in Collar” error. My understanding is that after a coin is struck it expands and cannot be fitted into a collar again so my question is that if it expands after the first strike, how does it rotate in the collar to be struck a second time? I imaged a coin would be too tight to rotate in-collar after a first strike, but perhaps not?

How does this happen?

cc @FredWeinberg, @Byers , @ErrorsOnCoins, @dcarr

Comments

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With the assistance of someone at the mint, I bet.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2020 5:21AM

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    With the assistance of someone at the mint, I bet.

    Even with assistance, I wonder how it physically happens.

    How does a coin that's struck once rotate in collar to be struck again with a different rotation in collar?

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Strike, open collar, reposition, close collar, strike?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2020 6:11AM

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Strike, open collar, reposition, close collar, strike?

    Perhaps if a multi-part collar was used. And even if so, would fitting the coin back in be difficult due to expansion? Did the Mexico Mint use multi-part collars?

    I know Dan's press uses a single piece collar and the coin can't be fit back in after ejection.

    Dan's Grabener press was originally in service from 1986 to 2001 and this is a 1990 coin.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if the diameter and thickness of this coin might clarify the restrike? Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,117 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2020 8:32AM

    That's a good example too!

    I'm wondering how that happens mechanically.

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nobody seems to want to venture a guess??????????

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • ELuisELuis Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2020 8:11AM
  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you can get it out of the collar after striking, you can get it back in. The coining press is pretty strong!

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How many (and how many different kinds) of errors can you have with patterns? Shouldn't be many. This one is almost certainly mint sport.

  • desslokdesslok Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    I believe the answer is simpler

    The coin is struck normally and ejected. Then, it gets stuck in the tote bin and not emptied out. Same tote bin is refilled with blanks and the coin goes back in the press for a second round.

    I've seen such cases of flip over double strike rotated in collar. I think the coin just had two separate rounds through the machine.

    This is similar to "double denominations", eg cent on dime, where a struck coin is mixed with blanks and fed again but to a different press for a different denomination.

  • robp2robp2 Posts: 167 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2020 5:13AM

    I think several options are available, either the previous post/rotation between strikes, setting up the press with a new die or someone was having a bit of fun. The first option would be quite serendipitous to get an exactly 90 degree rotation (but not impossible). Double struck coins with a rotation of 10 or 20 degrees are quite common. The second may depend on the number of faces to the fixing lug on the die. If it is square, or a multiple of 4 then you can easily take out the die, fit a new die and make a one-off strike using an existing coin as a 'blank' in the correct position (90 degrees out) and arrive at the observed by accident. Third option is a (deliberate) variation on the second, but you could never tell which was which.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @desslok said:
    The coin is struck normally and ejected. Then, it gets stuck in the tote bin and not emptied out.

    If you're striking a pattern, does it get dumped into a tote bin with a bunch of previously struck pieces?

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,693 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @desslok said:
    The coin is struck normally and ejected. Then, it gets stuck in the tote bin and not emptied out.

    If you're striking a pattern, does it get dumped into a tote bin with a bunch of previously struck pieces?

    I was serious about my answer. These errors were created intentionally.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    I was serious about my answer. These errors were created intentionally.

    Of course they were, and as such, they're not really errors.

Sign In or Register to comment.