MS67BN: The Unicorn Grade of Toned Lincoln Cents
WingedLiberty1957
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One of the extreme rarities in the Lincoln Cent series are those coins graded PCGS MS67BN. This is a rare and difficult to find grade and color-class combination. Just to emphasize how rare — from the founding of PCGS in 1985 until 2012 (a time period spanning 27 years) — the highest graded Wheat Lincoln Cent in the Brown Color Class was MS66BN. In May 2012, the very first MS67BN was graded: a stunning 1956-D Lincoln Cent. In the 8+ years since May 2012, 14 additional MS67BN Lincolns have been graded making the total population 15 (as of November 2020) in this rarefied grade / color-class combination.
Shown below is a side by side comparison of thumbnail images of the first 10 known PCGS MS67BN Lincolns which were graded as of 11/25/2018. All images are either TrueView (TV) or CoinFacts (CF) photos shot by Phil Arnold — the lone exception is the 1909-S VDB (coin #4), where no out-of-the-slab photo was taken. For this latter coin, I used the slab auction photos from the Great Collections website. I believe that if a TV or CF photo existed for this 1909-S VDB, it would have a bit more “pop”. The remaining “phantom” coin in this initial group of 10 is the 1936 that was graded in July 2017, where no known photo exists.
It’s interesting that after the first MS67BN was graded in May 2012, two more quickly followed in the next 10 months. Following those 3, there was a long gap of almost 4 years that lasted until December 2016. Since then however, we’ve gotten about 3 graded per year. Theories on this recent relative increase could be near-term “grade-flation” or perhaps more high-grade toned Lincoln submissions, in the past few years, prompted by the addition of PCGS “Toned” Lincoln Registry Sets (which give bonus points to BN’s) in 2016.
A breakdown of each coin follows:
#1: 1956-D
Date Made: May 2012
Current Owner: PCGS Member Wondercoins
Provenance: Raw Mint Set to Wondercoins
Cost: < $100 Estimated (Raw Mint Set)
Current PCGS Registry Set: None
In May 2012 the first MS67BN Lincoln was graded by PCGS. It was a stunning 1956-D Lincoln which was removed from a Cardboard Mint Set and submitted to PCGS by member Wondercoins and his daughter Lauren. This coin achieved the unknown-til-then grade of PCGS MS67BN. Amazingly, the PCGS Price Guide does not show prices for BN's late in the period, but the 67RD value is $240, so the BN guide value would be less than that if they listed anything – the marketplace value of this is many, many multiples higher due to the grade rarity, it’s top pop status, it’s stunning color and eye appeal, and demand from toned Lincoln collectors. What follows is the story of that coin:
Backstory (by WonderCoins): My 22 year old (at the time) daughter, Lauren, deserves all the credit for this coin. Lauren splits her time between being a third year Psychology major at the University of California, San Diego and a working numismatist/screener with me. She has been an active screener since 2006. In April 2012, I visited a safe deposit box I had not been to in a while in my hunt for top-end Washington silver quarter candidates (I currently have the top set of Major Variety (93 pc) Silver Mint State Washington quarters and I am putting the finishing touches on the set before the upcoming Registry deadline). I came across a “cache” of lovely toned Mint Set Lincoln cents I had picked up along the way over the past (30) years. I gave the pile of roughly 30-35 coins to Lauren and I asked her to pick me out (3) coins that I should submit. I was a little surprised that two of the coins she selected were dated 1956-D and the third coin was dated 1957-D. Lauren had so much date / mintmark selection, that, at first, I thought “why submit two of the same date / mintmark”. But, in any event, she picked them out, so I decided to submit them exactly as she picked them. The (3) coins graded MS67BN, MS66+RB and MS66+RB. Since I am not a Lincoln Cent expert, I had no idea I had made the first known MS67BN, and didn't discover that until I saw a post about my breakthrough coin on the CU Forum. -Wondercoins
#2: 1957-D
Date Made: July 2012
Current Owner: PCGS Member WingedLiberty to Terry's Coins of Color
Provenance: DJDilliodon to GreatToning to A.Keena to WingedLiberty to CopperColor to Terry's Coins of Color
Cost: $560 (NGC MS67RB #2553945-002) June 2011
Current PCGS Registry Set: Terry's Coins of Color
This was the 2nd Lincoln Cent that PCGS assigned an MS67BN grade, out of nearly 500,000 Wheatbacked Lincoln Cents graded since they starting grading coins in 1985. This was owned early on by Aaron Keena when it was slabbed by NGC as MS67starRB. Aaron sold it to Winged Liberty in June 2011 for $560. I suppose there could be some question on whether this should have been classified a BN or a RB coin (NGC thought it was RB, when they graded it a number of years ago, however the coin could be slowly darkening as time passes) — but, in any case, who am I to argue with the grading experts at PCGS. The definition of a BN coin is it contains less than 5% original mint-fresh copper color (the color copper that cents have when first being minted). So the ultimate question is what percent of this coin shows original mint-fresh copper color? If it’s less than 5% then it’s classified a BN (Brown); if it’s between 5% and 95% then it’s classified a RB (Red-Brown); more than 95% and it’s classified a RD (Red).
Backstory (by WingedLiberty): The funny story with this coin is it was a sort of an accidental buy. When I first got back into coins in 2011 after a long 40 year hiatus, I was excited by my recent discovery of toned coins. In addition, I had also recently discovered Matte Proof Lincolns a few months earlier and was interested in adding one of those often colorful beasts to my collection. After hunting for a few months, with no luck, I was becoming frustrated. When I saw this pretty and colorful NGC MS67starRB 1957-D Lincoln for sale on eBay in June 2011 (albeit, at a high price of $999) — I wondered if buying that colorful Lincoln Cent might quench my thirst for a beautiful high-grade Matte Proof Lincoln. After some negotiating with the seller, he knocked the price down to $560 for me. After acquiring, I did try to cross this to PCGS with a minimum specified grade of MS67RB, however it came back DNC (Did Not Cross). I was starting to feel like this might have been a mistake — so this coin went on the back burner and was mostly forgotten for a year. Then in an email discussion I was having with a fellow collector, this coin came up in conversation. He suggested I crack it out and send it in raw. Since some time had passed since buying, it was less painful for me to crack. I was amazed when it came back from PCGS in an MS67BN slab — at the time it was the 2nd known MS67BN. Afterwords I wondered if the reason it DNC’d the first time is PCGS wanted to “drop” the color class from RB to BN. To my delight that grading decision made this a grade / color-class rarity. Just to add a bit more historical information on this coin — this coin was originally owned by Collectors Universe Member djdilliodon about a decade ago. When I posted a photo of this coin in the NGC slab on the Collectors Universe Forum board in 2011, djdilliodon posted this comment … “Boy I miss that coin . IMO I feel the 67 grade is well deserved and was one of the reasons I sent it in to NGC for grading. It’s twin graded a 66 and while still nice, it wasn’t as colorful. ” djdilliodon then consigned this coin to eBay seller GreatToning, where it sold to a dealer named CaptivatingCoins (Aaron Keena) in located in Oregon. I then bought this coin from CaptivatingCoins (many months later) in June 2011 and I owned that coin until I sold it to CopperColor in 2019. So this coin had been in an NGC slab for a number of years. Also djdilliodon, the original owner of this coin and the person that originally had it slabbed by NGC, shared a photo with me that he took of the coin, just before he sent it into NGC and I can tell you the coin has not changed at all (the color has been very stable). – WingedLiberty
#3: 1916-D
Date Made: March 2013
Current Owner: “Jeffrey”
Provenance: Heritage to Angel Dees to “Jeffrey”
Cost: $2,990 (PCGS MS66BN #21675451) January 2008
Current PCGS Registry Set: None
This coin is what I consider to be the first rock-solid Brown (BN) in this rarefied group of coins and might be my favorite and the best technical coin amongst all of them. I know, how can anyone pick a favorite! I love them all. The first two examples above (1956-D and 1957-D) could have graded Red-Brown (RB) on another day and/or by another grading group. it’s interesting that this third coin was from the year 1916 as 1915/1916 were the years the U.S.Mint retooled the dies allowing for exquisite detail. I love the smoothness of the color and the dimpled fields, which reminds me a bit of a Matte Proof Lincoln. I honestly believe that this coin, if resubmitted a few times, could eventually grade PCGS MS68BN, which would be a unique stand-alone rarity. It certainly looks like an MS68 to my eye.
Backstory (by WingedLiberty): This monster 1916-D was auctioned off on the Heritage Auction site in January 2008 and hammered for $2,990. At the time it resided in an MS66BN slab. It was still a rarity, even at that lower 66 grade — a quality of rareness that most of the early mint-marked Lincolns in high grades enjoy. Andy Skrabalak of Angel Dees bought the coin in the auction and sold it to one of his Lincoln customers. The new owner kept this coin in the MS66BN slab for some time. A few years later, Andy led the charge to upgrade the coin for him, sending it into PCGS for regrade in March 2013, where it popped to MS67BN. That single point bump in grade caused a radical shift in the PCGS Guide value from around $3,000 to $10,000. Kudos to both Andy and the buyer of this monster for their good eye on the upgrade potential of this coin! – WingedLiberty
#4: 1909-S VDB
Date Made: December 2016
Current Owner: Unknown
Provenance: Great Collections to ParadimeCoins to Unknown
Cost: $20,350 (PCGS MS67BN #82900919) February 2017
Current PCGS Registry Set: None
There is no out-of-the-slab professional PCGS photo of this coin. The only images available were the Great Collections Auction photos — so I attempted to mock up an image similar in appearance to the PCGS photos for usage here. That being said, if PCGS had taken it upon themselves to image this super-rarity, I am sure their photo would have shown more “pop”. As it is though, with this somewhat impaired through-the-slab photo, some might wonder if this coin actually deserved a 67BN grade. It’s just hard to tell from this limited view. If I was grading it, i might have only gone as high as MS66BN. There were 14 independent bidders on this coin, placing a total of 42 bids. Four of the bidders placed bids over $18,000 and two over $20,000. Guide Price is $21,000 so this coin sold near PCGS Guide.
Backstory (from the Great Collections auction listing): The presently-offered specimen is one of the very finest 1909-S VDB Lincolns in existence. In terms of numerical grade, it is tied for finest known. This piece is certified MS-67 Brown by PCGS; it has a population of 1 with none graded finer in the Brown color class. While PCGS has certified other pieces as MS67 Red-Brown and MS67 Red, this coin is equal in terms of numerical grade but can be acquired at a more reasonable cost. In terms of technical quality, this specimen is certainly among the very finest pieces in existence. Its smooth surfaces are devoid of spots, defects, flaws, or any detracting characteristics. The luster is intense and fully intact. The color is even, natural, and extremely pleasing. When copper coins tone, they often acquire unsightly splotches or carbon spots. This example, on the other hand, shows the kind of uniform coloration that copper specialists covet.
Backstory (from SSR at ParadimeCoins): ParadimeCoins bought and owned the pop 1/0 1909-S VDB 1C PCGS MS67BN CAC. This coin was raw prior to it being graded. There is no true view, but having seen this in hand I can say had it not been a S-VDB, this would have had a shot of being graded higher. It is CAC certified. Post auction, ParadimeCoins sold it to someone who then resold to its current owner in the $30K+ range in early 2017. Prior to the auction there was no PCGS Price Guide price listed and it appears the price guide after the auction was based on my purchase. Upon seeing this coin we just had to own it. It is of my opinion that this coin could have sold for much less that the $20,300 it achieved in the original auction -- but I believe the price guide price is conservative in today's market.
#5: 1937-D
Date Made: May 2017
Current Owner: PCGS Member ChloeBess to Terry's Coins of Color
Provenance: Boston Coins to ChloeBess to Terry's Coins of Color
Cost: $1,550 (PCGS MS67BN #84290741) May 2017
Current PCGS Registry Set: Terry's Coins of Color
The fifth MS67BN was a 1937-D Lincoln that has striking bold obverse colors of green, pink, amber, and gold. it was auctioned off on eBay by Boston Coins in 2017.
Backstory (by ChloeBess): This 1937-D is spectacular. It was my first 67BN, purchased in May 2017 when I was just beginning my set. Boston Coin discovered my desire to own this type of rarity and sent me a photo. I bought it with no hesitation. It is one of my favorites in my set, and I think it has a true personality. I don’t know how it acquired its look, but it shimmers when holding it — even with the deep colors.
#6: 1936-D
Date Made: June 2017
Current Owner: Terry's Coins of Color
Provenance: GreatCollections to ChloeBess to Terry's Coins of Color
Cost: $439 (PCGS MS67BN #84014737) June 2017
Current PCGS Registry Set: Terry's Coins of Color
This 1936-D was bought off the Great Collections auction site. This is a beautiful coin with smooth and even brown toning — with slight hints of pink and green. It does not share the vibrancy of most of the other MS67BN's but it's still a technically a top grade coin.
Backstory (by ChloeBess): A month after I bought the 1937-D above, this 1936-D showed up in a Great Collections auction. I think I bought it for a price that it deserved (a bit lower than most other 67BNs). That lower price was probably because it’s almost all brown and the lack of any other bright vivid color kept other bidders at bay. In my case, I consider true brown a color just as any other, and while the reds and greens, etc. are more popular, I like this in my set because of its perfect condition and almost total commitment to brown. Under inspection, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to see it upgraded to 67+ someday, which is something I will attempt sometime when I have nothing else to do. -ChloeBess
#7: 1936
Date Made: July 2017
Current Owner: Unknown
Provenance: Unknown
Current PCGS Registry Set: None
There is no known photo or ownership information on the seventh example: 1936 Lincoln. In any case it was certified shortly after the 1936-D. And the only reason I know about this is from the PCGS Population Reports. I did check PCGS Certification numbers around the 1936-D thinking this 1936 and the 1936-D may have been submitted at the same time -- hoping I might stumble onto it, but no luck. This coin is MIA (missing in action). If anyone ever stumbles across this high-grade beastie let me know as I'd love to see a photo of it. It's a shame that PCGS doesn't automatically photograph grade rarities for CoinFacts, but that seems to be a more hit and miss selection.
#8: 1916
Date Made: March 2018
Current Owner: PCGS Member Ronyahski
Provenance: Angel Dees to WingedLiberty to Ronyahski
Cost: $5,000 (PCGS MS67BN) March 2018
Current PCGS Registry Set: None
This coin was upgraded by Andy Skrabalak of Angel Dees fame and sports razor sharp details and an explosion of blue, violet, pink, teal, and amber color on pristine lustrous surfaces. At the time it was first graded 67BN, this was one of only three MS67BNs dated before 1936.
Backstory (by WingedLiberty): I had been chasing this coin since 2012. I fell in love with it the first time I saw it in CoinFacts (it was MS66BN at the time). Over the years, I had, on occasion, pinged various lincoln cent coin dealers asking if they had ever seen it — with no luck. In January 2018, someone randomly approached Andy of Angel Dees at a coin show wanting to sell him this coin. Andy bought it and immediately thought it was an upgrade candidate to MS67BN, After some effort Andy received the upgrade from MS66BN to MS67BN. At that point, it was actually out of my league in terms of price, but I had been hunting it for so long, I wanted to own it at least for a short while — so I bought it for $5,000. While in ownership of this, I had 2 great photographers (Robec and Phil Arnold) shoot a lot more images, so it’s catalogued really well now. After a few months of fun, I asked Andy if he could attempt to sell it to the other interested party, which he was able to do at a very small profit to me. Thanks Andy.
#9: 1957-D
Date Made: August 2018
Current Owner: PCGS Member ChloeBess to Terry's Coins of Color
Provenance: Great Toning to ChloeBess to Terry's Coins of Color
Cost: $600 (PCGS MS67BN #34118080) August 2018
Current PCGS Registry Set: Terry's Coins of Color
A very beautiful Mint Set toned 1957-D Lincoln with striking green on the obverse.
Backstory (by ChloeBess): I purchased this 1957-D from Dick Abrahams (Great Toning) who was handling it on consignment. I’ve known Dick for many years and he was aware of my interest in high grade Lincoln toners. He did not price it for me, but asked me what I thought it was worth and what I would be willing to pay for it. Based on the photo, I offered $600. I thought it was on the high side for this date but it fit well with my set and gave me a third 67BN. The owners plan before that was to go into a Great Toning eBay open auction — and my bet is, the owner felt the price I offered was about all that would fetch so he simply sold it directly to me. We will never know! There are other 67BN’s of this date and I felt this one was different in that it was very green. I have to say that I love this coin, and especially love the green which makes it a solid BN. -ChloeBess
#10: 1957-D
Date Made: November 2018
Current Owner: PCGS Member Robec
Provenance: PCoins to DimeFreak to WingedLiberty to Robec
Cost: $495 (PCGS MS67RB #27610790) November 2014
Current PCGS Registry Set: Robec Spectra Lincolns
Another really beautiful Mint Set Toned 1957-D. It’s the 3rd 1957-D in this select group. The strike on this coin is hammered (somewhat rare for Lincolns minted in the late 1950’s) — and the colors on both sides, fiery and exquisite.
Backstory (by Robec): This coin had been slabbed PCGS MS67RB for a number of years. I photographed it for DimeFreak (the owner at the time) in early 2013 while it was still PCGS MS67RB. The cert number at that time was 11031706, a very early cert number, so clearly it was initially graded quite a while ago. There was no Reconsideration Service back then, only Regrade, so it was more convoluted to upgrade coins. The general thought by many who saw it was it should have been given the BN designation early on. WingedLiberty bought this coin from DimeFreak in April 2013. Winged Liberty then sold it to me (still in the MS67RB slab) in November 2014 for $495. Over the next few years, I made several attempts at color class reconsideration (all unsuccessful). Finally in November 2018, with the help of member Grumpig, the coin was finally given the correct Brown (BN) color classification allowing it to join this rarefied group.
#11: 1916
Date Made: April 2019
Current Owner: Angel Dees to a West Coast Collector
Provenance: Unknown
Cost: Unknown
Current PCGS Registry Set: None
This is the second 1916 in this select group.
Backstory (by Andy Skrabalak): I purchased this coin in a NGC 67RB Star holder. I asked Pcgs to cross it at any grade. They chose 67 brown. I sold the item to a collector out West.
#12: 1912
Date Made: June 2019
Current Owner: Angel Dees to Terry's Coins of Color
Provenance: Terry's Coins of Color
Cost: Original Cost Unknown
Current PCGS Registry Set: Terry's Coins of Color
An absolutely gorgeous 1912.The colors on both sides are a beautiful raspberry red and violet. Hammered Strike. By far the prettiest 1912 Lincoln I've ever laid my eyes on.
Backstory (by Andy Skrabalak): This coin was originally in an NGC holder. I cracked it out and sent it in a few times before getting a 67 grade. It was in a 66+holder for only a short period of time. I sold it to a dealer who sold it to Terry 's Coins of Color.
#13: 1911-S
Date Made: June 2020
Current Owner: Terry
Provenance: Grumpig to Terry’s Coins of Color
Cost: Original Cost: $15,000
Current PCGS Registry Set: Terry’s Coins of Color
IMHO, the most beautiful 1911-S Lincoln in existence. A semi-key with breathtaking color and strike.
Backstory (by Terry); I’m not sure there are words to fully express this work of art! What a beauty. This MONSTER was an NGC MS68 BN originally. The blue color over the cherry reds give this coin a look of few if any in existence. Very Few Cents ever get a PCGS MS67BN rating and this one I think could have been a 68! A prize of any collection! - Terry
#14: 1957-D
Date Made: July 2020
Current Owner: LincolnCentMan
Provenance: Grumpig to LincolnCentMan
Cost: Original Cost Unknown
Current PCGS Registry Set: LincolnCentMan
A beautiful 1957-D. This is the 4th 1957-D to achieve the lofty MS67BN grade. This coin is right at the height of the mint set toning era, so it’s understandable that so many 57D’s made this lofty grade.
Backstory: Unknown
#15: 1909
Date Made: November 2020
Current Owner: Michael Mayeda
Provenance: Curry’s Prism of Color Collection
Cost: Original Cost $37 (raw)
Current PCGS Registry Set: Curry’s Prism of Color Collection
A beautiful 1909 Lincoln Cent. 1909 Plain coins are much harder to find with beautiful color and in very high grades than the more heavily saved 1909 VDB.
Backstory (by Michael Mayeda): I was making my run on eBay back in may of 2020 when I came across the coin sitting in a PCGS QC holder for $37 through eBay seller dollarsandcentscoinshop. I looked up the coin on my phone and I thought that it had a good chance to straight grade. It was a very attractive looking coin condition wise too so I took the small gamble and bought it. When I received it in hand I was shocked to see that it was such a nice coin. I cracked it out and it sat around for a few months until I had enough coins to send to PCGS. This was part of a submission of 20 that I considered one of my worst submissions to date because of the terrible grades that I had received. This 1909P was the lifesaver of the group when it straight graded MS66BN. The submission was entered in late August and I didn’t receive grades until early October. By the time I got them back, by chance Jason Wendt was assembling a show submission of Lincoln’s and I took the opportunity to send it in because I felt this coin was truly special. So on the first show regrade grade attempt it upgraded to the coveted MS67BN.
Summary
Thanks for reading this. I am curious to see what new high grade toned beauties might be uncovered in upcoming years. If anyone ever comes across the phantom 1936, shoot me a PM as I'd love to see a photo of it.
Comments
That's a great tracking and history of MS 67 Lincolns, excellent post.
Awesome post @WingedLiberty1957!
Looks like Chloe Bess is on a roll!
Fantastic and educational post! Ironically, the 36-D is one of my favorites in spite of not having wild color. A lot of beauties in that group, thanks for posting 'em.
Great Lincoln cent post....Perhaps the longest post I have seen here...and very informative. Cheers, RickO
Great coin and the color is mentioned in the owner's commentary. I'm a big fan of owner commentaries like this and from Alan Weinberg.
SUPER Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow Wow!!
Love them all!
Fantastic informative post. Thank you for taking the time to share
its sad this kind of history tends to gets lost over time, which is one of the reasons I wanted to record and post it. my favorite thing about coins are the cool backstories.
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Awesome post Winged! It reaffirms why I collect toned Lincoln’s and why I haven’t parted with them now that I’m not very active in them anymore. The pictures make me want to crank up the hunting bugle again!
Thanks 4 posting! Certainly a "Museum Post". If there is such a thing? Lol
Maybe, a "Smithsonian Post"?
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--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Great post! Nice to know that Lauren started it all off!
Wondercoin
Wow, awesome coins! At least the color should be stable too,
10-4,
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Nice coins posted!
Your estimated retail values are a joke on almost all of these.
Very well written. Thank you. It's very interesting to see the wide variety of color assigned to the BN designation. I understand the technical qualifications for the RB and BN color designations, but the defined color designations in general don't seem to fit some of these coins very well. Coin #11 appears to have been dipped and is AT in my opinion.
Too high or too low? Post your estimates, i’d like to see
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Nice write up, personally I think that at least three of these should be RB not BN, but its not my call.
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This is a fantastic post!
Love seeing the backstories on these coins. As usual, a well thought out display of fun facts. It's always a pleasure to read your threads and enjoy the show. I appreciate your participation........never disappointed.
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Great post!
I emailed you privately.
Terrific post and stories. Thank you for sharing.
Would you agree that 1, 2, 9, 10 and 14 all may just have well been given RB designations..... ?
I used to own #9. The obverse is fully toned green and the reverse is mostly toned. I could never see it in an RB holder for the fact that the obverse is 100% toned. I also thought the coin could end up in a 67+ holder one day in the future.
Terrific post!
Those darkly toned Lincoln cents can be amazing coins. I can vividly recall a dealer pulling out from his back table an NGC graded 1916 Lincoln cent in MS65BN that had been graded during the first year or two of NGC being in business. He showed the coin to me in the mid-1990s and my first reaction was that it was the most amazing Lincoln cent I had ever seen. He told me it was his favorite coin, though he had many coins worth multiples of what that coin could have sold for at the time. He dropped out of the numismatic scene shortly thereafter and I always wondered what happened to that absolute moose of a coin. It is one of the few coins I attempted to purchase, but was rebuffed on and subsequently lost track of.
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Its reverse has plenty of RD though ... it could go RB per technical definitions of RB vs BN.
This is not a slight. If anything, it just proves OP’s point that a 67BN designation is very very tough.
There is a difference between original mint red (RD), which is what is required for RB, and coins that have toned a red color.
- Bob -
"Central Valley" Roosevelts
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Great post
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Nice post - thank you for the very informative read!!
“I used to own #9.”
TonedRoosies... what did this coin sell for? OP did not list a current estimated value on this one?
Wondercoin
Great commentary. Love the slab shot!
The current owner mentions it was purchased for for $600.
There are also examples with varying amounts and degrees of faded mint red, which can qualify for RB.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Great thread and great photos of some very eye appealing coins.
Guess I should pull out my Dansco Lincoln cent album and OGP 1950's mint sets to refresh my memory on some MS toned cents I have.
I hear ya. However, it sure seems like PCGS places many of the wildly toned mint set examples and other wildly toned copper examples into RB slabs almost as a default ... seemingly much more often than they’d place them into BN slabs. Same with NGC. Otherwise we’d have A LOT more high graded BN examples.
I enjoyed reading your post OP. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Slab Shot by Robec ...
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Slab Shot by Robec ...
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I really like this look of this one!
A feature length article in a post! Wow! Thanks for doing this. I agree that "cheap" coins can have interesting backstories, and that they will always be lost unless actively maintained by those who know them. Hey PCGS, run this in your next Rare Coin Market Report magazine!
It would also be cool if it were possible for the kind of information provided to pop up in a cert lookup.
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Thank you WL for doing this. A plethora of excellent information.
Outside chance in a couple hundred years. Bronze stabilizes as it progresses through the oxidation process.
And look at the OP. Currently there are only 217 coins graded 67RB, not tens of thousands.
Great post! Thank you for doing all of this research and posting it!
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That 1916-D is a killer!
shoo-wee. don't see posts like that often these days. i'm not as active as previous but this is an obvious nomination of POTD.
Winged Liberty- you have now edited your original post to remove all the estimated values. Just curious why you did that?
You did that after this comment was posted on the thread...
“Your estimated retail values are a joke on almost all of these.”
Can you share the information you recently obtained leading to the removal of all the estimated values? Were your estimated prices too high or too low in your opinion after your further investigation over the past day? Thanks in advance for addressing this.
Wondercoin
Hello Wondercoin,
The guy that posted his complaint about my earlier listed estimated retail values (see one of the above posts from member tonedroosies) brought up a good point to me through a PM. While I felt like my values were fairly accurate and based on what these coins were trading/selling for over the past few years, and then extrapolating what I felt was an accurate market value from that information -- it's very difficult to predict what someone might pay for any particular coin having this much scarcity. His complaint was he felt like my listed estimated retail values were too low.
For example I put an estimated retail value on that 1957-D that I owned (coin #2 above) of $1000 to $1500, because that's what this coin was trading for recently. I sold it for $1000 in late 2019. And there were other transactions of that coin in the low to mid $1000's. However if a new owner can get someone to pay $4000 for it, then how can I reflect that information? It's impossible.
On the first 1916, coin #8, I bought it for $5000 in March of 2018. And it was sold later in 2018 for somewhere between $6,000 and $7,000 (not sure exactly where, but that was ballpark). So that's why I listed an estimated retail price of that gorgeous 1916 of $5000 to $8000. However if the current owner wanted to sell it for $10,000 or more and could find a buyer at that higher price, who's to say that's not reasonable?
I did miss the boat on the 1911-S, a coin that the poster noted above actually bought, where I had an estimated retail value of $13 to $18k (there is no guidance on this coin in the pcgs price guide by the way) -- even though I was solidly in line with my estimate based on what he paid for it in August 2020, he told me he's already had offers approaching $30k.
So anyway, after my discussion with the poster above, i decided it's probably too controversial for me to attempt to list estimated retail valuations based on past marketplace transactions. I would need to list ranges so wide they would tend to lose any meaning.
This is one of the issues with very low population slabbed coins (like MS67BN Lincolns) with vibrant color (which is unique wow factor). These are notoriously hard to value as something technically is worth what someone else is willing to pay, and that is a singularly hard item to predict.
It's actually the same issue that we see in the PCGS Price Guide. For example the PCGS price guide doesn't even list prices for MS67BN 1957-D Lincoln Cents, they only list prices for RD's (this is true for all Lincolns in later years of wheat backs). And since PCGS is totally locked (cemented) into a paradigm of the valuations declining as you move from RD to RB to BN (RD > RB > BN) -- if you have a PCGS price guide listing an MS67RD 1957-D at $275 -- you know that if PCGS DID list a price for MS67BN 1957-D it would probably be some fraction of that RD price (maybe 50% or thereabouts). Of course PCGS totally misses the boat on this! This is where expert collectors with "boots in the mud of the marketplace" greatly outshine PCGS in terms of understanding the complexities of the actual market. What PCGS doesn't have any idea about (apparently) and won't acknowledge in their price guide is that 1957-D MS67RD is a relatively common coin with a 141 examples (and they all basically look the same (i.e they are a somewhat common commodity), while the MS67BN only has 4 examples and all of those have exquisite and unique toning, which makes these much more rare objects that clearly trade for big premiums over the PCGS price guide in the marketplace. This PCGS Price Guide discrepancy gets even more out of alignment when you look at coins like the MS67BN 1911-S, 1912, or the 1916. PCGS is so far out the loop on the marketplace with these, they often dont even list prices for some of these high grade early BNs with pop 1/0.
So the upshot is, the price estimates that I listed earlier in my post (based on previous transactions) -- a few collectors still consider too conservative. It's true that it's really hard to pin down what some of these coins might sell for in particular transactions in the current marketplace. Certainly PCGS has little to no idea about any of this based on their poor acknowledgement of this unique market with their price guides on high grade colorfully toned BN's. And my attempt to help shed some light on this with better price estimates (many times higher than the pcgs price guide) was met with a bit of incredulity (that my price estimates were still too low) from a few.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set