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1909 abraded VDB?
Robot1010
Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
I'm sure there are more of these out there. I just haven't seen any photos to compare it to. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking at. Any comments or info greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Unfortunately, the coin looks to have PMD (post-mint damage). The surface of the VDB appears to have metal moved, possibly from a counting or rolling machine.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Thanks astrorat. I'm no expert but to me it looks like the vdb was being removed and the die was being leveled out. Below the left wheat stalk appears to be more raised polishing lines between the rim and wheat stalk. Coin appears to be in au/bu condition and I'm not seeing that kind of damage anywhere else. Lower area seems consistent with vdb removal and die leveling to me. I could be wrong
A lot of it depends on whether the lines are raised or recessed.
Thanks jmlanzaf. Second photo looks like raised lines. I guess it won't be confirmed until I have it attributed. I think I'm on the right track unless there's something im missing
Okay ... you see the hoof prints ... think horses, not zebras. The VDB looks "smeared" and if damaged by a counting wheel (which often happens in isolate areas on a coin), the "lines" would be raised because the metal is being moved. The images of your coin appear to be an example of post-mint damage, likely by a counting wheel or other similar device.
Here's another way to think about it ... the 1909 VDB is a highly collected coin in one of the most popular series in American numismatics ... and has been for over a century. What do you think the changes are that you would find the first and the only known example of the coin despite over 100 years of collectors, from pediatric to geriatric, searching these coins?
Submit the coin for authentication ... it's your money. And ... I hope I am wrong and by some miracle you have the discovery coin of a new die variety. It will be great news for the hobby!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Look at the rim below the VDB – looks like damage to me
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Thanks astrorat. That was my issue with this coin being over 100 years old and no other examples. I was hoping someone has seen this before. It could be damage that's why I'm asking the experts. I definitely appreciate your input I'm just leaning towards abrasion. Those were older photos so I took more to get a better look. Honestly it looks like both to me. I'm fairly new to the hobby so I just don't know. Im seeing what look like polishing lines that are going from the rim into the fields. They are also inside the rim. If these lines were not there I would say it's simply damage
. I'm no expert so this is just my best guess.
on the die, the fields are flat and the devices are sunk into the coin.
when a die is polished or abraded the fields get the lines first.
the devices could certainly get hit while polishing, but in this case we're talking down in tiny letter indentations.
on your coin the lines are across the top of the VDB. there are other "lines" in the area.
what was abraaded was the coin with something that caused damage to the vdb and the coin in the initials' general area.
Thanks FredWeinberg. Damage it is
I was busy uploading photos when you commented and didn't see your post
Thanks MsMorrisine. I'm not sure what die or hub vdb was removed from but I do remember hearing that it would leave a raised area near the rim or a bump. I see a little swelling along the left side like the die was leveled enough to get to the initials without a big change in the field. The right side rim ramps up like a proof coin while the left looks to be swollen. My observation could be wrong
I agree with the inputs above... PMD.... I do see the lines you refer to, however, I interpret them as part of the damage. Cheers, RickO
Thanks RickO. I'm going to hold onto this one. I appreciate everyone's help