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Another World Coin Submission... GRADES and TVs now in!

Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 28, 2021 11:41PM in World & Ancient Coins Forum

I had fun sharing my experience with a submission about a year and a half ago. You can review that thread here.

I just put in another 10 coin submission in yesterday, which reflects most of my activity since that last submission. A couple observations this go around:

  • The PDF form was WAY easier to fill out. I'm not exactly sure when this change happened but it seemed a lot easier (and didn't ask for the PSG number!).
  • I think I figured registered mail in terms of packaging, tape, filling form out. My time spent running around was much shorter this time.

Here are the coins with a hodge podge of photos. Any feedback welcome:
1. 1625 Bavarian Taler. Raw. Auction purchase. Nice delicate patina in hand. Probably dipped at some point and then retoning a little. Hoping for AU55-62

  1. 1637 Wildman Taler. Raw purchase from Kunker via MA-Shops. Mostly original. Hoping for VF-XF.

  2. 1616 Wildman Taler. Raw. Auction purchase. Dipped but still crusty. I like the Wildman portrait on this one. Hoping for XF-AU.

  3. 1603 Teutonic Order Taler. NGC 53. Purchased from @TPRC. The holder had many fine lines I could not buff out, and the coin is really beautiful (but hard to see with the holder). So I cracked it out and am submitting raw. Excited for the TrueView in time. I suspect that the coin is more 45-50, but got a bump from NGC given the originality and color. Hoping for AU50 on this one.

  4. 1596 "Lie Taler" in NGC XF45, purchased from HA. Cracked out and submitting raw. Based on quality of manufacture I think this one could go higher at PCGS.

  5. 1736 Austrian Taler. Raw, auction purchase. The observe has been cleaned slightly - jeweler's cloth or something similar. Some retoning. But the reverse is untouched and uncirculated, really immaculate. I hope this straight grades.

  6. 1691 Salzburg 3 Kreuzer. Raw, auction purchase. This is a small coin, toned, lots of luster. I think it is MS but curious what it will go. Not a good picture:

  7. 1696 Hungary 3 Kreuzer. Raw, auction purchase. Not a rare coin but really a jewel. Hoping for MS64.

  8. 1675 12 mariengroschen. Purchased via MA-shops. Dipped at one point, some retoning, but very nicely detailed. Hoping it straight grades MS.

  9. 1921 Thale Am Harz 50 pfennig. I thought this modern wildman coin was kinda cool. About the size of a quarter and I think zinc (made in post WWI Germany), hard to assess grade, could see 58-63.

My current "Box of 20"

Comments

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice group of wildmen. Let us know how long it takes to grade them. From what I hear World coins are taking a long time.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing coins.

  • Wonderful coins! I have a bunch I’ve been wanting to send off. Hope to get around to it in 2021!

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice!!

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ajaan - I will update this thread when the grades and TVs come in. I also saw some recent threads about extra long turn around times... Seems to be the theme for the year. Had hoped to include another coin coming from Germany - but taking absolutely FOREVER to get here.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • PhilLynottPhilLynott Posts: 880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice, good luck on the submission!

    Is your 1691 3 Kreuzer bent from the roller press? Here is my 1690 which is extremely bent as struck which makes me love it that much more.

  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭

    A wonderful submission of German States material! I'm curious about #5 - I think it has a shot at AU-50 or maybe even an AU-55 given grades I have seen on other talers in this "set". Does it lose the Morris Collection pedigree? I am not familiar with that collection so I'm not sure that is a concern or not.
    I will go out on a limb and say that you have all straight grades. I will look forward to an update on the results. I hope you see good results!

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PhilLynott - I knew someone had a similar Salzburg 3 Kreuzer - but couldn't remember who! My coin is not flat like a modern coin but it doesn't have the classic roller press bend (like the 1691 Hungary coin I also posted. Nice coin! Again, either Salzburg made a ton of coins, or they were saved in some quantity.

    @worldcoinguy - thanks for the thoughts! I did not elect to pursue the Morris pedigree, but I admit that is out of ignorance as to whether it is a good pedigree or not.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • PhilLynottPhilLynott Posts: 880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bob13 said:
    @PhilLynott - I knew someone had a similar Salzburg 3 Kreuzer - but couldn't remember who! My coin is not flat like a modern coin but it doesn't have the classic roller press bend (like the 1691 Hungary coin I also posted. Nice coin! Again, either Salzburg made a ton of coins, or they were saved in some quantity.

    @worldcoinguy - thanks for the thoughts! I did not elect to pursue the Morris pedigree, but I admit that is out of ignorance as to whether it is a good pedigree or not.

    Yep tons of amazing high grade examples I think @Rexford has a 3K in PCGS 67 if I'm not mistaken

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PhilLynott said:

    @Bob13 said:
    @PhilLynott - I knew someone had a similar Salzburg 3 Kreuzer - but couldn't remember who! My coin is not flat like a modern coin but it doesn't have the classic roller press bend (like the 1691 Hungary coin I also posted. Nice coin! Again, either Salzburg made a ton of coins, or they were saved in some quantity.

    @worldcoinguy - thanks for the thoughts! I did not elect to pursue the Morris pedigree, but I admit that is out of ignorance as to whether it is a good pedigree or not.

    Yep tons of amazing high grade examples I think @Rexford has a 3K in PCGS 67 if I'm not mistaken

    Yep, good memory. It was a 1681 :)

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When you cracked out #5 did you look at the edge of the coin? It might just be the way minted, but it looks like a mount might have been removed to me. Hope I am wrong.


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ajaan - I know the area you are referring to and I don’t think so. Just think how made.

    Coins arrived at PCGS!

    My current "Box of 20"

  • AuldFartteAuldFartte Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭✭

    Very nice submission, Bob13! Those are real beauties!

    image

    My OmniCoin Collection
    My BankNoteBank Collection
    Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bob13 : Superb coins! You sure have a lot more guts than I do with the cracks and submitting raw pieces. :scream:

    :heart: the coins!

    :+1:

    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bob13 said:
    10. 1921 Thale Am Harz 50 pfennig. I thought this modern wildman coin was kinda cool. About the size of a quarter and I think zinc (made in post WWI Germany), hard to assess grade, could see 58-63.

    The Thale am Harz pieces are difficult ones! There is also a really cool one with a cat on it, and yet another with a mounted rider on horseback. The Thale am Harz pieces are among the best Notgeld coin designs IMO. :+1:

    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My registered mail package arrived within a couple days, but it took 2 weeks to receive the coins in the PCGS system. And then, Yikes - I got this email:
    "Your submission number XXXXXXXX (PCGS order number YYYYYYYYY) has been flagged with a problem. We will need specific information from you before we can continue processing this order."

    Guess I will call on Monday. But, service seems SLOW at the current time...

    My current "Box of 20"

  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here’s hoping it’s easy to fix!

    Re: grading world coins, I have cracked 2 NGC 45s that graded 53 and 55 at Pcgs (btw I think the Pcgs grades were totally warranted). But this would be pretty unheard of in any US series. Have you guys noticed different trends or standards when grading world coins at the tpgs?

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bob13 said:
    My registered mail package arrived within a couple days, but it took 2 weeks to receive the coins in the PCGS system. And then, Yikes - I got this email:
    "Your submission number XXXXXXXX (PCGS order number YYYYYYYYY) has been flagged with a problem. We will need specific information from you before we can continue processing this order."

    Guess I will call on Monday. But, service seems SLOW at the current time...

    Forget to sign?


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Turns out that I had 10 coins, was going to use my voucher for 8, and then I could either do Economy or regular for the other 2 coins.

    I called multiple times, never got through to anyone. I did leave a callback once and they did call back, but I missed the call. Thankfully, PCGS was responsive over email and we got the issue sorted.

    My coins were logged in 12/12, and were grading but moved today to ENCAPSULATION. So some progress!

    My current "Box of 20"

  • StellaStella Posts: 689 ✭✭✭✭

    Nice Wildmen. Good luck with your results!

    Coin collector since childhood and New York Numismatist at Heritage Auctions.
  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still "ENCAPSULATING". Anyway know how long this part takes?

    My current "Box of 20"

  • angelo43angelo43 Posts: 61 ✭✭✭

    Sent some Papal Medals, somewhat newer ant the same time you did and got 7 of them but 20 of them are still in limbo.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I summited in 11/4 and stayed in received for two months. It just moved to grading. It will take a long time for sure. That's why I hold off submitting more.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My last submission (mailed mid-January) took 3 days from the East Coast to PCGS, and two days to get entered into the system. But I expect I will be waiting a while for any further progression.

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Got grades this morning and images just popped tonight.

    Had a few surprises - unfortunately, not good ones! To be honest, a bit let down after the wait time to get a couple of these details grades. Would appreciate feedback/collective wisdom from the group on a few below.


    AU58 - in line with expectations. Good job capturing the color on this one.


    AU55 - higher than I expected!


    AU Details - damage? Need help with this one - not exactly sure what is being called damage?


    AU Details - damage? This one was really a kick in the pants - I am not sure if they are talking about some rim stuff which looks pretty minor to me. Disappointed and would appreciate input/insight you might have. I certainly feel like any damage is with a lower-case d not DAMAGE!


    XF45 - Crossed at same grade, had hoped for a notch higher but OK with this.


    AU Details - Cleaned. As I noted in my first post, I'd hoped this would straight grade, but had suspected it might not due to an old clean.


    MS62 - seems about right.


    MS64 - as I hoped.


    MS62 - seems about right


    MS62 - in line with what I was expecting. Don't like this TV though.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,839 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ouch on those damage grades. Seems quite harsh. Crack them and try again is all you can really do...or send them to NGC

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I cannot tell why the details in those coins. But is a nice group.

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    Ouch on those damage grades. Seems quite harsh. Crack them and try again is all you can really do...or send them to NGC

    I guess I’ll wait to get in hand, see what I can see, seek out another opinion or two and then probably resubmit at some point.

    My current "Box of 20"

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS must be in strict mode I am thinking....do what Brian says.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭

    Bob13,
    The 3 detail grades are a tough punch to the gut. With a 300+ year old coin, I think there is always a fine line, albeit sometimes arbitrary, between straight and detail grades. Not a week goes by where I don’t see pieces in straight holders from both TPGs that toe this line. The tough aspect of this is judging from a single image and not having the luxury of viewing them in hand.
    I would be interested in what type of damage was noted on the 1616 Wildman and 1603 Teutonic Order. I don’t see the red flags. Perhaps they noted evidence of an old mount, they have reason to believe there was some minor tooling, or they are concerned with the toning on the Teutonic? I am not familiar with the feedback PCGS provides when a details grade is received. I agree with Boosibri on trying again.
    On a side note, I submitted a ½ taler a couple of years ago that was returned as mounted. I was 99% convinced that it was not a mount and the “damage” was a planchet defect on the edge of the coin. I obsessed about it under magnification for weeks, and finally decided on a second submission. Not only was it straight graded, but it came back in a 63 holder (ats).
    If there is a silver lining in all of this, the TVs look great and capture the patinas nicely.

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Appreciate the comments, all. @worldcoinguy - I am not expecting any feedback from PCGS, but will let you know if there is anything in the box. I think Tooling is a separate descriptor than damage, though.

    I'm hoping that with coins in hand that I can have them evaluated by others more expert than myself (whenever Long Beach starts up again) and come up with a plan - whether resubmit to PCGS or try ATS.

    Thanks!

    My current "Box of 20"

  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That Teutonic is a rock-star coin - PCGS got it wrong as best I can tell from those photos and knowing your expertise in this area.

    Crack - and resubmit the Teutonic to NGC. These "games" that the TPGs play sometimes are maddening. :angry:

    Love the coins @Bob13

    :love::heart::+1:

    -Brandon
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

  • Bob13Bob13 Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just to close this thread out - I have the coins back in hand.

    The two "damage" coins do have the 98 code, but the label on both says "mount removed." I am still not sure that it is true for either coin. Unfortunately even harder to exam rims now!

    Anyway, thanks for everyone's comments!
    Bob

    My current "Box of 20"

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