Die trial of the Canada Inter-Gold Canada Ltee, Johnson Matthey & Mallory ** update confirmed**

coinsarefun

***update, received first letter of confirmation that I was right*****
See newest post below.

I have looked for years for a one ounce gold example of these. They came in silver and gold. By themselves
and/or sets. They were made for a very short run from 1977-1980...something. They all had the beaver reverse
and different obverses. For me there was only one obverse design I liked so needless to say its been a very long search as these sell for multiples and for bullion, that's a hard pill for me to swallow.
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Fast forward.....I came upon an auction for this piece noted that "THIS IS NOT GOLD" several times. Understandable.......
.....to me this was better than gold. To me this was a die trial! And it looks to me to be gold plated. There edges are reeded too.
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I did some searching around and found that a pair sold 3 years ago for $420 plus premium. One is copper and one is gold plated. The auction states that this is one of the best die work from a bullion company and I will agree.
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I'm fairly certain I have the gold plated trial version and mine does not have pvc on it as the other auction states.
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Granted this is a later year as a slight difference in mine, Doesn't have the rectangular plate below.
It weights 14.59 gms, and is 31.80 mm.
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So Guess it pays to wait as I got what I wanted which is the beaver design and its gold plated. Die trial strike is the icing on the cake !.

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For those that do net want to click on the link this is a screenshot below.
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MsMorrisine

you find some great stuff.

DCW

Love the design! I know someone else that appreciates a good beaver...oh @jabba !

kiyote

Castor Fiber!

coinsarefun

@DCW said:
Love the design! I know someone else that appreciates a good beaver...oh @jabba !

There are a few that like and collect beavers on coins and tokens and I’m one of them

MrEureka

I'm not familiar with this particular piece, but it seems more likely that it is a cheap sample provided at no cost to retailers for a window display, and not an actual "die trial".

coinsarefun

@MrEureka said:
I'm not familiar with this particular piece, but it seems more likely that it is a cheap sample provided at no cost to retailers for a window display, and not an actual "die trial".

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So, the auction was inaccurate a few years back>
https://www.icollector.com/Bronze-Trials-for-Gold-Beaver-Issues-1977_i27130199

MrEureka

@coinsarefun said:

@MrEureka said:
I'm not familiar with this particular piece, but it seems more likely that it is a cheap sample provided at no cost to retailers for a window display, and not an actual "die trial".

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So, the auction was inaccurate a few years back>
https://www.icollector.com/Bronze-Trials-for-Gold-Beaver-Issues-1977_i27130199

I suppose it depends on how we define "trial". But I would not call it a trial piece.

ricko

I have no idea about the details, but that beaver is certainly depicted differently than most that show sideway versions. Nice piece. Cheers, RickO

coinsarefun

I just found an example of the obverse. There were 3 or 4 different ones. I have not been able to find
any information on these. It appears to me to be die trials or patterns. Would anyone be able to help out? Maybe contact Johnson Matthey? Although I don’t think I will have luck as it was made for a very
short time for Canada.

coinsarefun

One last tt. I email a few of the bullion dealers and the mint itself.......probably will not be fruitful but I would rely like to know what I have here.
I also emailed the Canadian auction company that sold this a few years back and ask them if they verified what they said or can they tell me what my next step would be.
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Maybe ill get lucky and someone here can point me in the right direction.

DCW

I have nothing to add, but Im really interested in the results. Good luck, Stef. It is a beautiful piece.
@MrEureka I've never seen a cheap window display version of a coin before. Im not saying they don't exist, just that I've never seen one or didn't know I was looking at a prop at the time. This has incredible detail to be some imitation, don't you think?

coinsarefun

@DCW said:
I have nothing to add, but Im really interested in the results. Good luck, Stef. It is a beautiful piece.
@MrEureka I've never seen a cheap window display version of a coin before. Im not saying they don't exist, just that I've never seen one or didn't know I was looking at a prop at the time. This has incredible detail to be some imitation, don't you think?

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It was discussed ever so briefly on the pm forum.

And doesn't sound like it was a cheap prop

Zoins

They are interesting pieces for sure but I have no idea what they are. I'd check with forums where Canadian exonumia or collectors frequent, or even if there's someone cataloging these pieces, like an expert of sort.

coinsarefun

@Zoins said:
They are interesting pieces for sure but I have no idea what they are. I'd check with forums where Canadian exonumia or collectors frequent, or even if there's someone cataloging these pieces, like an expert of sort.

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Yeah I wrote the site all things engelhard hopefully they can help or point me in a good direction

ms70

Zoins

The reality is that for a lot of things, it's impossible to find out the details because information has been lost through time. That mystery is part of what makes collecting interesting, so either way, I think these are neat pieces

coinsarefun

@Zoins said:
The reality is that for a lot of things, it's impossible to find out the details because information has been lost through time. That mystery is part of what makes collecting interesting, so either way, I think these are neat pieces

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.the auction company that sold it a few years back is from Canada. I wrote them hoping they may have known something since Johnson Matthey and Malloy were making it for them.
It was there very first bullion coin so you think it would have some importance.

coinsarefun

I guess what I’m getting at is I would like to get a grading company to holder them so I have future reference when I hand down certain things to my nephew. He does like coins and the history but is to busy making real money as a general contractor to collect them.

coinsarefun

I received my first response from the website
https://allengelhard.com/definitive-pages/au-all-examples/
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His reply was Hi Stefanie, Thanks for your email. Those do appear to be test dies as that was the typical protocol. We will pass these along to our JM experts on our team and if they have any information or suggestions we will forward along to you. Best of luck, AE
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I’m hoping to hear back anymore info and the other companies I emailed.
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Even though this is the story of Canadas first bullion coins I do not think
Pcgs would be willing to slab these so
I may se if NGC will do a special dual slab
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Zoins

@coinsarefun said:
I received my first response from the website
https://allengelhard.com/definitive-pages/au-all-examples/

His reply was Hi Stefanie, Thanks for your email. Those do appear to be test dies as that was the typical protocol. We will pass these along to our JM experts on our team and if they have any information or suggestions we will forward along to you. Best of luck, AE

Are they different dies from the regular strikes? If they are, that would be something.

coinsarefun

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:
I received my first response from the website
https://allengelhard.com/definitive-pages/au-all-examples/

His reply was Hi Stefanie, Thanks for your email. Those do appear to be test dies as that was the typical protocol. We will pass these along to our JM experts on our team and if they have any information or suggestions we will forward along to you. Best of luck, AE

Are they different dies from the regular strikes? If they are, that would be something.

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I’m guessing the proper term would be strikes. These are done first and given to the Canadian mint
to see if they would like it so Johnson Matthey & Mallory can then go ahead and make die trials

Only a guess as I have from Ron Landis test strikes and die trials all leading up to the 2000
competition of the golden dollar. These appear to be struck in brass and gold plated.
Maybe so Canada could approve them? Since they had several obverse’s and a constant reverse
(The Beaver) this could explain the various uniface pieces.

Zoins

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:
I received my first response from the website
https://allengelhard.com/definitive-pages/au-all-examples/

His reply was Hi Stefanie, Thanks for your email. Those do appear to be test dies as that was the typical protocol. We will pass these along to our JM experts on our team and if they have any information or suggestions we will forward along to you. Best of luck, AE

Are they different dies from the regular strikes? If they are, that would be something.

I’m guessing the proper term would be strikes. These are done first and given to the Canadian mint to see if they would like it so Johnson Matthey & Mallory can then go ahead and make die trials

Only a guess as I have from Ron Landis test strikes and die trials all leading up to the 2000 competition of the golden dollar. These appear to be struck in brass and gold plated.
Maybe so Canada could approve them? Since they had several obverse’s and a constant reverse (The Beaver) this could explain the various uniface pieces.

I mention different dies because your response from AE said Those do appear to be test dies, not test strikes or die trials.

coinsarefun

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:
I received my first response from the website
https://allengelhard.com/definitive-pages/au-all-examples/

His reply was Hi Stefanie, Thanks for your email. Those do appear to be test dies as that was the typical protocol. We will pass these along to our JM experts on our team and if they have any information or suggestions we will forward along to you. Best of luck, AE

Are they different dies from the regular strikes? If they are, that would be something.

I’m guessing the proper term would be strikes. These are done first and given to the Canadian mint to see if they would like it so Johnson Matthey & Mallory can then go ahead and make die trials

Only a guess as I have from Ron Landis test strikes and die trials all leading up to the 2000 competition of the golden dollar. These appear to be struck in brass and gold plated.
Maybe so Canada could approve them? Since they had several obverse’s and a constant reverse (The Beaver) this could explain the various uniface pieces.

I mention different dies because your response from AE said Those do appear to be test dies, not test strikes or die trials.

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He may have meant one thing and said another. I will write him back and ask to explain