Blank Planchet or Slug?
Drummer9400
Posts: 18 ✭
Hi there, I bought a few rolls on eBay, claiming to be OBWs from the ‘50s and one of them had what looks like a blank planchet. Issue is it weighs 4.1 grams - there are a few possibilities based on what I could find - 1: came from 1942 thick planchet 2: came from experimental 1944 thick planchet 3: just a copper slug implanted in the roll by seller who sourced old paper. 4: no one knows yet til it’s graded.
The third possibility, although very possible seems unlikely as this roll had BU steel wheats from ‘43 and an Indian head penny inside - to say nothing of another roll from the same seller, OBW that had 4 Indian head pennies and a ‘42 mercury dime AU condition - who would knowingly implant a mercury dime into a roll like that?
And finally (novel, I know) I saw another guy post a similar blank with the same weight, but seemed to get roasted over it being just a slug - nobody that I saw confirmed the weight of a typical copper slug is 4.1 grams, so my question is can somebody please confirm whether this is a thick blank planchet or a slug? If not, I’ll send it off to pcgs. 
Comments
Mysterious.
Can you show the edge? It doesn't seem to have much of an upset rim, so I am leaning toward calling it a slug.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Not matching any U.S. specification the logical answer, via Occam's Razor, is to call it a slug.
That’s the rim. So I feel silly for asking, but my real question is do copper slugs genuinely weigh 4.1 grams? If so, I follow the logic of calling it a slug.
Could be a type 1 cent planchet. Not sure what the weight specs are on one though.
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It would be the same just in a different shape.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
plated cents are 2.5 grams
normal cents are 3.11 grams
a slug is a slug. what it is made from causes the weight. I'm not sure what was punched to produce that, but it is too heavy for a normal cent.
how does the diameter compare to a cent?
I thought a type 1 is referred to as a blank, not called a planchet until the rim is upset.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Diameter is the same as a wheat penny
One of these popped up here a few months back that was the same weight, it was a slug.
Tried to find the thread but it may have been deleted along with the member.
What do you mean by "weight of a typical copper slug is 4.1 grams?" Is there such thing as a typical slug?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I suppose that it could be a blank for a foreign coin. Good luck finding one that matches the weight, diameter and composition. Until that is accomplished, it's a slug.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/798028203/blanks-for-minting-coins-coinage-brass?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_d-art_and_collectibles-collectibles-coins&utm_custom1=
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
I ask because everyone is calling it a slug based on the parameters of what coin could it possibly be, in other words no coin to their knowledge would weigh that much, even a blank, but so far, no one (besides echoes) has shown me pics or given me side by side weight comparisons of a copper slug versus whatever this is I found in a roll. Therefore I still say it’s possible it’s a slug, or a blank from either ‘42 or ‘44. Somebody said the weight is not matching any us specification, but the ‘42 thick planchet error coin is a thing.
ah
but how do you tell a slug from a thick planchet? you don't.
since nothing can be proved, it's just going to get called a slug.
I think both types are referred to as blanks or planchets. Basically the same thing.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
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It doesn’t have a rim and it doesn’t have the cut and tear marks on the edge so it’s not a type one blank– it’s a slug
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
ohhh. the lesser experienced blow the call.... no cut and tear marks. slug.
Alright, seeing some solid logic for why it’s a slug - now given that is the case, can I assume that the seller on eBay was being dishonest about the roll being an OBW? Because a slug wouldn’t make it in to a bank roll.
Here’s a blank planchet for comparison
I’m thinking the OPs piece is some type of an electrical “spacer”, not coin related at all. The groove has some unknown purpose. For proof, an XRF analysis could confirm either pure copper, or the specific cent alloy. An absolute off the wall theory could be some tinkerer in his metal shop (ala Henning) turning out fake pennies from copper rod, then seeding a few in every roll.
hmmmm...
if a roll is supposed to be all the same date and is called OBW with that in it, I'd say the roll was searched and re-closed.
the rolls that look like this:
can be opened on one end then re-crimped. I've done it probably over a thousand times roll searching from rolls I get straight from banks.
If it was supposed to be a mixed date bank roll of some old coins from some old time, then I'd say they are just putting junk in to make people think they are getting something for their money.
Mixed roll for sure - the issue I have is why would the seller do that with this particular roll, but not the other two I bought from him, one a roll of all BU 1958 d mints and the other, same era, but had 4 Indian head pennies and a mercury dime as well - I doubt someone sleazy enough to crimp a slug in a roll would be leaving a piece of silver in a roll. Or could this seller be really good at making it seem like he sells OBWs given the pure ‘58 d roll?
my guesses would depend upon what was paid for the rolls.
we see a lot of rolls sold on ebay where they say finds could include indians and wheats and sometime show a picture with a dime showing on one end. people pay premium money hoping for something valuable. there is a saying we use here "there is no santa clause in coin collecting." throw a better coin in there that's worth less than the cost of the roll and you've satisfied the hope factor of the buyer and elicit positive feedback for what could have been.
The 1958 d roll was $30, the one with the mercury dime as well as the one with this slug were $40. Far as I can tell it’s a profit for me on the ‘58 d roll and maybe the one with the mercury dime given the 4 Indian heads and handful of bu wheats found within. The slug roll may be a loss given it’s small handful of bu wheats, even if a couple are ‘43 steels.
here is a 1958-d unc. roll from ebay that sold:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-D-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-Uncirculated-Roll-50-/154189436147
these guys had rolls of them on sale for $8.49
https://www.collectons.com/shop/item/21942/1958-D-BU-Lincoln-Wheat-Cent-Roll-50-Coin-Red-Rolls
a single dime is about $2.00 & a full roll of 50 wheat cents run about $2.00 in bulk. 4 indians? they can run about $2.50
https://www.collectons.com/shop/item/31509/Indian-Head-Cent-Rolls-50-Pennies
value all depends upon dates, mint marks, and condition.
generally if you have 12,500 cents and a white dime is in there you'd pull it out because it's an easy profit. if you think there could be a flying eagle or indian cent in there you pull them out because that's easy profit.
we on these forums are quite skeptical of the claims made by sellers of these rolls and think these type of rolls are bad deals because what sells them is hope, not coin value.
Blank Planchet or Slug?
Good to know - I’d say the BU wheats across all three rolls would be able to achieve MS 64 or higher - obviously 64-66 isn’t too valuable, but could be a few 67s or higher. Last thing - this seller I bought from threw in two extra rolls, though given what’s been said here it might not be considered a deal - the extra rolls were one all 1959 P BU cents and the other 1980 P BU cents.
I would say I'm 99% sure that the guy is scamming you. He put together the rolls himself and salts them with exotics to make you think you're going to find something rare. How many rolls do you think are out there that have silver in the cent rolls? And of those rolls, only 1 in 25 would have that "error coin" on one of the ends. Yet, somehow this guy has a never ending supply?
What this guy has is a crimping machine and maybe some old rolls, or new rolls that he "aged". A BU roll of 1958 wheat cents has a Greysheet bid of 8 bucks. You paid $30. How do you figure that's a profit?
I figure two bucks a bu 58 is the going price around me locally - every collector I know agrees, so 50 coins at 2 bucks a piece is 100 bucks - maybe I’m not making an extra 20 bucks, but damn. Y’all are brutal on this forum - deuces, fuck all of you.
You can buy BU rolls for far less than that. 64s won't even be worth submission fees. 67s are unlikely which is why the price is higher.
Again, you can buy BU rolls of 58 for under $10. The retail price of a single coin isn't really helpful. It would take you 100 years to sell 50 coins at $2 each, assuming you can even get $2 each.
We're trying to keep you from getting taken. It's about being honest. It's not meant to be brutal.
I would sell you every roll of 58-Ds I could find for that price.
He probably didn't mean to crimp a slug in the roll. Replacing the one cent with a slug doesn't profit him. Replacing the one cent with a "rare error" does.
Most of the paper rolls this guy sells are modern paper not vintage. So, calling them "OBW" is itself a misnomer.
For anyone who wants to look at the seller's offerings, it is "coinmaster!!"
Eh, I get what y’all be saying, but damn, there was a nicer way to let me know I’d been ripped off - can I just be happy with the mercury dime and 5 Indian head pennies? Geez - I’ll be deactivating my account now, y’all just seem to negative.
if it makes you feel any better ... we all have our moments ... especially early on .... here's a new topic started on just that
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1047208/tell-me-your-worst-coin-purchase
I'm sorry to hear that. We don't mean to be negative. If you take a breather and read the thread from the beginning, everyone was trying to be helpful at the top. When you posted the items you bought, we went in a different direction. But we just stated opinions or facts. Sometimes the text lacks nuance and you put your own emotions into it.
We've all learned a lot from each other on this forum. We've all had mistakes pointed out. We've all pointed out each other's mistakes. You just learn that people mean well even if they don't couch it in flowery language.
P.S. You can be mad at us, if you want. But we saved you $50 in submission fees to PCGS. That should count for something.
It would be nice if you deleted your profanity first. A big violation of the rules, obviously.
You fell for one on the longest running coin scams on ebay. If you are a newer collector then there is no shame in that, and you have lots of company.
But your reaction is unwarranted. You clearly needed the guidance you found here buy you are rejecting it. I expect more expensive disappointments in your future, unfortunately.
@Drummer9400... No one likes to be scammed... and anger is a typical reaction. You are upset at being scammed, but are taking your anger out on those who inform you of the problem. Calm down and think about it a while. Cheers, RickO
I think he actually believed what we told him, after resisting a little. He just didn't like being told. It's unfortunate. I mean, we are a little blunt at times, but no one called him dumb or mocked him. And we did save him a lot of money. He won't spend $50 trying to slab a slug and he now knows better than to spend $40 buying a $10 roll of wheats.
Oh, well...never pays to deliver bad news. About 20 years ago I was at a country auction. There were a bunch of fakes: 16-D dime, SVDB, 22 plain cent. Guy near me was all excited to add these rarities. So, he starts running up the SVDB, which went 1st. I leaned over and whispered that it was a fake. He scowled at me. Then when he won it, he turned around, looked in my direction, and yelled out loud "that's $500 right there".
He goes on to buy a couple other fakes and then sends them to one of the grading services. They all came back as fake. He created a major ruckus with the auction firm, threatened to call the Treasury, threatening to sue. They worked out some deal.
Ever since, no matter how expensive and how fake the coin is at auction, I never say anything. They end up mad at you.
I think he’ll calm down over the next few weeks. As mentioned in the other thread, we have all been taken before. Some call it paying dues, some tuition, but whatever the term it happens that we pay more for something than it’s worth. It just stings more when we really believed in it. It’s embarrassing.
Personally, I’d be happy to be taken only for a small amount. I’ve paid big tuition in the past. Hated it. Still here. It’s no reflection on me that someone successfully scammed me. It’s a reflection on them. And call it karma or justice or whatever but in the end the scammers will end up on the wrong side in the end.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I do believe that’s the first time I seen someone type “y’all”. Huh.
Really? I do it and I'm from New York.
There are 3 types of coin collectors:
I still have a fake trade dollar that I bought with some hard earned lawn mowing money in the early 70s as a young teen. I still get angry and embarrassed when I see it.
I prefer the Northern "you all".
Or yinz if you're from western PA.
The correct Southernism is All Y'all (plural) or Y'all singular.
There, I've saved you from a "Bless your heart" which is worth WELL north of $50.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
The key to the series is you’ens. Much harder to get in public these days.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
At least @Drummer9400 can be happy he didn't fall for the "original" roll of CC Morgans scam. I hope he/she doesn't become too embittered with collecting because of an early misstep.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces