1864 Lincoln Campaign token obverse die restrike

NumisOxide

BIN'd this on ebay the other night. This is the first one I've seen. Trying to date when it was restruck. 1960's? Only the obverse die was used. Anyone familiar with it?

Here is the original token.
Check out this 1864 Token DeWitt AL-1864-10 Silvered Brass Abraham Lincoln Campaign on PCGS CoinFacts!
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/detail/681721

coinsarefun

Interesting. First time I’ve heard or seen this one.

Zoins

It's a nice piece and I'm also curious who struck it and when it was struck. I've also never run across these but I'm just starting to follow political tokens and medals. I do know some pieces have been struck relatively recently, like post 2000 from some of Steve Hayden's posts.

Here's a TrueView of an original.

Zoins

Here's a restrike of a 1868 Grant token using the same new reverse die.

This was sold on the bay and I believe by Steve Hayden.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1868-ulysses-grant-restrike-political-1981986460

Zoins

Calling @THOMAS655 who is an expert on political pieces.

NumisOxide

@Zoins said:
Here's a restrike of a 1868 Grant token using the same new reverse die.

This was sold on the bay and I believe by Steve Hayden.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1868-ulysses-grant-restrike-political-1981986460

Nice! Very neat. So it seems to be a very recent restrike.

Zoins

Here's one more I found. might be worth checking the Sullivan reference.

This is a resrike of the obverse of Sullivan AL-1860-18, King #16. Sullivan tells us that restrikes from the original obverse die were made at least as recent as 1950. Reverse is self-explanatory. Appears to be brass. MS, as made. 38mm

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/abraham-lincoln-restrike-1860-650379501

ricko

@Zoins... that last one is interesting.... do not see many of Lincoln without the beard. Cheers, RickO

NumisOxide

Hmm so 1950s? I wonder if Bashlow did these?

Zoins

@coinJP said:
Hmm so 1950s? I wonder if Bashlow did these?

I'd be inclined to think it's someone other than Bashlow until there's more evidence. His major pieces are well known and these look like more than one-off test strikes. For his regular issue pieces, there are also quite a few on the market as he was a big promoter and tended to gear his pieces for sales.

I've seen many restrike that seem to be from unknown people with very few on the market.

Here's an example where Bashlow had a special (vs. generic) die made when he lacked one side.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/j-conway-company-pikes-peak-robert-475411719

Of course, if you find paperwork, that would be pretty good evidence. For example, here's an order form of his I have:

NumisOxide

Zoins,
Yes, I have a set of those J.J. Conway "restrikes"!
I was actually thinking about these exact pieces.

NumisOxide

Very cool order form. I have one of the original yellow envelopes the silver conway came in.

Zoins

Here's an old thread from ATS where a lot of the photos unfortunately no longer exist.

Here's the last remaining one from Mr. Yuk for posterity just in case anything happens.

https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/64703-what-you-need-to-know-about-bashlow-continental-dollar-restrikes/

Zoins

Another thing Bashlow used to do when he didn't have both dies is mule them with other dies he had. I'd be more inclined to think these were Bashlow pieces of the 3 original dies here were muled together vs. with a new, generic die.

Here's a mule from Tom Jankovsky who has done a bit of research on Bashlow pieces.

MedalCollector

You need to check the NNP for some leads there....

Zoins

@GoldenEgg said:
You need to check the NNP for some leads there....

It would be great to find out who struck these.

Issuers and history of some lesser known restrikes is one of the hardest areas to research in my opinion.

MedalCollector

@Zoins said:

@GoldenEgg said:
You need to check the NNP for some leads there....

It would be great to find out who struck these.

Issuers and history of some lesser known restrikes is one of the hardest areas to research in my opinion.

I mean the answer is there.

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/527256?page=94

Zoins

@coinJP said:
Very cool order form. I have one of the original yellow envelopes the silver conway came in.

Thanks! I like picking up old material like this. I often get them specifically so I can scan them in and have better images than some smart phone auction shots.

The original envelops are great. I've seen them and they are a great piece of history for these!

Zoins

@GoldenEgg said:

@Zoins said:

@GoldenEgg said:
You need to check the NNP for some leads there....

It would be great to find out who struck these.

Issuers and history of some lesser known restrikes is one of the hardest areas to research in my opinion.

I mean the answer is there.

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/527256?page=94

Awesome! So these were struck in 1949 by W. M. Winter!

I wonder who was the minter and where the dies are now? Was Winter associated with any particular mints? Winter was based in Ohio and the Osborne Mint is in Ohio so that is a possibility. I wonder if they would have any record of this now.

Thanks @GoldenEgg! This is what makes the forums so great!

Nice to see Bullowa mentioned on the page too as I just picked up one of her pieces.

Zoins

I knew I recognized the last die and actually posted the die here back on June 19, 2019. Osborne Minting struck the original token and still has a die in their holdings. They mention they struck the original tokens for Lincoln in 1860 and 1864 with both dies still in their vault. They also mention they struck tokens for Grant, so they may have done all the originals and restrikes here.

I wonder if W. M. Winter worked for Osborne Minting and found the dies there?

Here's my thread.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1021469/who-struck-lincolns-1860-and-1864-campaign-tokens-dewitt-1860-20

Here's the die. This has more die cracks than the restrike so if this is the same die, it was damaged during the restriking process.

Here's the information for Osborne Minting's history page:

In 1835, the United States public debt was $0 for the only time in history. The first assassination attempt against a United States President (Andrew Jackson) took place. The Great Fire of New York destroyed 800 buildings (including the New York Stock Exchange). People did not have much faith in US Currency at the time. This led to the founding of a private mint called Z. Bisbee Co. – which eventually became The Osborne Coinage Company – America’s Oldest Private Mint. The company based itself in the heart of Cincinnati and started producing gold and brass coins early on, adding lightweight and modern aluminum to their product line in 1892.

Over the past 200 plus years, Osborne Coinage has served The United States, its people and its presidents as a custom coin manufacturer. In 1860, when Illinois Senator Abraham Lincoln decided to run for president, the company provided him with inexpensive campaign coins to give away during his campaigns in both 1860 and 1864. Both sets of dies are still in our die vault today. Osborne made political coins for eight other presidential campaigns including Ulysses Grant and Franklin Roosevelt.

NumisOxide

@GoldenEgg said:

@Zoins said:

@GoldenEgg said:
You need to check the NNP for some leads there....

It would be great to find out who struck these.

Issuers and history of some lesser known restrikes is one of the hardest areas to research in my opinion.

I mean the answer is there.

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/527256?page=94

Awesome! Thanks! It's great to be able to date these.

Zoins

Of note, W. M. Winter's address in Dayton is under 53 miles to Osborne's headquarters in Cincinnati.

And "True" on the die is the name for Benjamin C. True .