Home Precious Metals

How hard is it to get the pure gold out of an American Gold Eagle?

Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
edited November 12, 2020 4:32PM in Precious Metals

I noticed that the American Gold Eagle is made of 22K (crown gold) aka .9167 gold with silver and copper unlike Buffalos, Maple Leafs, etc.,

But I’m wondering how hard it is to extract the pure gold from an AGE? With a .999 coin, bar or round I’m guessing they just melt it and reform it but is the process of extracting the silver & copper from an AGE more expensive and time consuming?

«1

Comments

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No need to melt, AGE is only the most liquid gold coin in all of the Americas. They very easily trade hands without ever seeing the refinery. Rgds!

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    No need to melt, AGE is only the most liquid gold coin in all of the Americas. They very easily trade hands without ever seeing the refinery. Rgds!

    Yeah but it’s a Bullion coin so doesn’t that mean it should be able to be melted down and used easily?

    Isn’t that what bullion is for?

  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 425 ✭✭✭

    There are a few guys on here that do this, hopefully some of them will chime in shortly. From what I gather, it’s generally not worth the trouble to extract the alloys so when they melt them they do it with other, similarly composed gold and just sell it as ~92% (or whatever it comes out to).

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is no need to extract pure gold from a product that is not 24K. Anyone needing 24K gold can buy 24K gold.

    Gold is naturally soft. Alloys are added to the AGEs to make them more resistant to damage. Less than 24K does not affect the value of a one ounce coin when there is one full ounce of pure gold in the coin such as is the case of the AGE. This is why and AGE and 24K gold buffalo will sell for close to the same price.

    Message me on how to get $40 free while earning 1% cashback on ebay purchases. Offer expires Dec. 25.

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    @ffcoins said:
    There are a few guys on here that do this, hopefully some of them will chime in shortly. From what I gather, it’s generally not worth the trouble to extract the alloys so when they melt them they do it with other, similarly composed gold and just sell it as ~92% (or whatever it comes out to).

    But if they sell it at 92% doesn’t isn’t that a rip off since technically the AGE does contain a full Troy ounce of gold. It’s just that there is other stuff in there too.

    I would hate to be paid for 1 oz of 92% gold when there is 1 oz of 99% gold + some silver and copper.

  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 425 ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020 7:22PM

    I believe the scrupulous sellers would adjust prices accordingly on melted bars of alloyed gold. Just weigh, measure purity, do the math.

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    There is no need to extract pure gold from a product that is not 24K. Anyone needing 24K gold can buy 24K gold.

    Gold is naturally soft. Alloys are added to the AGEs to make them more resistant to damage. Less than 24K does not affect the value of a one ounce coin when there is one full ounce of pure gold in the coin such as is the case of the AGE. This is why and AGE and 24K gold buffalo will sell for close to the same price.

    So someone would only melt an Eagle if they needed 22K gold?

    I mean the whole reason an AGE is valuable is because of it’s gold content so it seems like it would be silly if the gold in it was useless.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @ffcoins said:
    There are a few guys on here that do this, hopefully some of them will chime in shortly. From what I gather, it’s generally not worth the trouble to extract the alloys so when they melt them they do it with other, similarly composed gold and just sell it as ~92% (or whatever it comes out to).

    But if they sell it at 92% doesn’t isn’t that a rip off since technically the AGE does contain a full Troy ounce of gold. It’s just that there is other stuff in there too.

    I would hate to be paid for 1 oz of 92% gold when there is 1 oz of 99% gold + some silver and copper.

    Gam, there is a full Troy ounce of gold in a AGE. The silver and copper is added later like derryB said, to make it more durable. That’s why they weigh 33.93 grams.

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020 6:09PM

    @Downtown1974 said:

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @ffcoins said:
    There are a few guys on here that do this, hopefully some of them will chime in shortly. From what I gather, it’s generally not worth the trouble to extract the alloys so when they melt them they do it with other, similarly composed gold and just sell it as ~92% (or whatever it comes out to).

    But if they sell it at 92% doesn’t isn’t that a rip off since technically the AGE does contain a full Troy ounce of gold. It’s just that there is other stuff in there too.

    I would hate to be paid for 1 oz of 92% gold when there is 1 oz of 99% gold + some silver and copper.

    Gam, there is a full Troy ounce of gold in a AGE. The silver and copper is added later like derryB said, to make it more durable. That’s why they weigh 33.93 grams.

    Yeah I know that’s why I was trying to say an AGE is worth more than 1oz of 92% gold.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 24,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the people dealing in bullion know an age and a buff contain 1 oz of gold and have each priced and bought similarly. you will be paid for an ounce of gold because that is what an age has in it.

    if someone wants 22k gold in another product, they'll buy it. if someone wants a bullion coin that is 24k they can get a buff.

    with less than 2 grams of silver-copper, it is not cost effective to extract them out just to have 24k gold and some tiny amount of silver.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    24K pure gold coins are melted only because the gold is to be used to fabricate something else.

    Less than 24K gold coins are melted to remove the pure gold and turn it into 24k gold.

    Message me on how to get $40 free while earning 1% cashback on ebay purchases. Offer expires Dec. 25.

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s a wash. The purity of your AGE is approximately .9167 yet contains an ounce of gold.

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    24K pure gold coins are melted only because the gold is to be used to fabricate something else.

    Less than 24K gold coins are melted to remove the pure gold and turn it into 24k gold.

    Your second statement.

    “Less than 24K gold coins are melted to remove pure gold..”

    That’s what I’m asking. Does this extra step needed to extract pure gold make the AGE worth less than a Buffalo?

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 24,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    no.

    the age is in a form that is "what it is used for" :: bullion coin. it is a bullion coin that has 1oz of gold. that's all that matters to the bullion people.

    if someone wanted gold to melt and purify, the we buy gold people get in lots of jewelry to melt as it is.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 24,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    also, don't forget that in an age form it is actually easier to sell for a better price than a simple hunk of 24k gold.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    no.

    the age is in a form that is "what it is used for" :: bullion coin. it is a bullion coin that has 1oz of gold. that's all that matters to the bullion people.

    if someone wanted gold to melt and purify, the we buy gold people get in lots of jewelry to melt as it is.

    jewelry is made to be melted down, because all jewelry is hideous and stupid looking , its just crying out "MELT ME"

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Man Bronco...you're on a tear lately. Jewelry is stupid, ASEs are stupid...you’re firing on all cylinders.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020 6:37PM

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @derryb said:
    24K pure gold coins are melted only because the gold is to be used to fabricate something else.

    Less than 24K gold coins are melted to remove the pure gold and turn it into 24k gold.

    Your second statement.

    “Less than 24K gold coins are melted to remove pure gold.”

    That’s what I’m asking. Does this extra step needed to extract pure gold make the AGE worth less than a Buffalo?

    AGE are not melted to extract their gold as long as they carry a good premium in their current state. 24K one oz buffalos are priced only $10 higher than the AGE at APMEX. Both have the same amount of pure gold.

    Sounds like you're trying to build in the cost of gold extraction on what you buy. You're over thinking it. What should affect your decision on which product is (1) current buying premium and (2) can I recover the premium percentage at resell. Quality gold products such as the AGE and the buffalo both offer this. The third thing you should consider is EASE of resell, again AGEs and buffalos win.

    The most widely recognized and respected bullion gold products bring the highest premiums on both sides of the trade. Collector coins are a completely different story.

    Message me on how to get $40 free while earning 1% cashback on ebay purchases. Offer expires Dec. 25.

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Downtown1974 said:
    Man Bronco...you're on a tear lately. Jewelry is stupid, ASEs are stupid...you’re firing on all cylinders.

    just keepin it real bro B)

  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 5,470 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:

    @Downtown1974 said:
    Man Bronco...you're on a tear lately. Jewelry is stupid, ASEs are stupid...you’re firing on all cylinders.

    just keepin it real bro B)

    Yea you are. :D

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 20,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like how bronco is always so subtle. :)

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yep, you're overthinking it. It's a bullion coin containing 1 troy ounce of pure gold. A Canadian Maple is a bullion coin with one troy ounce of pure gold. A Philharmonic is a bullion coin with one troy ounce of pure gold. If one is slightly more expensive or less expensive than the next, it's more a function of supply & demand than a theoretical refining cost: These are all already 1 troy ounce gold investment vehicles refined to their highest intentional purity.

    Modern bullion 1 ounce coins really started with the Krugerrand in the 1960s. They're 91.67% pure with the balance in copper, commonly called "crown gold". It's been used since the 1500s. Crown gold is more durable than pure gold, so they were intentionally made that way and it was considered a good thing. Worked, too, because they became iconic.

    Then the Eagle was introduced and knocked the Krugerrand off the throne. It's a form of crown gold as well, but backed with the US government name and denominated in US dollars. How did the other countries compete? Made their bullion coins a higher purity to imply it's somehow better. So bullion coins started to be made in .999 gold instead of being alloyed with anything. Then it became fashionable to go to .9999 pure. Canada even released a .99999 pure gold coin! You're talking purity thrown off by a spec of dust on the surface of the coin.

    It's hard to tell the difference between fashion and demand. Right now, "pure" gold coins are more popular, so they might command a slightly higher premium.

    But consider this: While a single American Gold Eagle might be "contaminated" with a little silver and a little copper mixed with that ounce of pure gold, a thousand Gold American Eagles contains about a kilo of pure silver. So who knows? Unalloyed coins may fall out of fashion when people realize there's free silver to be had in alloyed coins.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • TomBTomB Posts: 16,513 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have to squeeze really, really hard!

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 425 ✭✭✭

    @bronco2078 said:

    @Downtown1974 said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    @Downtown1974 said:
    Man Bronco...you're on a tear lately. Jewelry is stupid, ASEs are stupid...you’re firing on all cylinders.

    just keepin it real bro B)

    Yea you are. :D

    I remember one time I was buying scrap and I bought a charm bracelet . 18k gold , it was a charm bracelet , one where you visited a place and you bought a charm apparently to show you had been there.

    Rich people huh? This bracelet was over 3 troy ounces , it had a stupid little Effiel tower dangling from it, Big Ben was on it , friggin taj mahal charm , golden gate bridge charm . What a stupid idea this was right , you walk around with all these lumpy doodads hanging off your wrist . Gold was only like 275 an ounce at the time. I think I paid about 800 for it .

    I had it for a while then I scrapped it and I asked the guy who bought it , what he meant to do with it and he was like I am going to melt this piece of trash , so I hit it with a hammer a few times in case he was tempted to change his mind at a later date.

    If I hadn't a mushed it up , he might have sold it on , it might still be around . Some brain dead buffy with sweater sleeves tied around her neck might be playing tennis with it on even now.

    I don't like to think of myself as a hero but ok maybe a little. I saved the world just a little that day , with my hammer

    I think you just wrote a Raymond Carver story.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 41,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's expensive to separate the metals. Research aqua regia. Acids are not cheap. The process is toxic, arduous , corrosive and the eagles trade at a higher value.

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2020 8:58AM

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @Downtown1974 said:

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @ffcoins said:
    There are a few guys on here that do this, hopefully some of them will chime in shortly. From what I gather, it’s generally not worth the trouble to extract the alloys so when they melt them they do it with other, similarly composed gold and just sell it as ~92% (or whatever it comes out to).

    But if they sell it at 92% doesn’t isn’t that a rip off since technically the AGE does contain a full Troy ounce of gold. It’s just that there is other stuff in there too.

    I would hate to be paid for 1 oz of 92% gold when there is 1 oz of 99% gold + some silver and copper.

    Gam, there is a full Troy ounce of gold in a AGE. The silver and copper is added later like derryB said, to make it more durable. That’s why they weigh 33.93 grams.

    Yeah I know that’s why I was trying to say an AGE is worth more than 1oz of 92% gold.

    An AGE doesn’t have 1ozt of 92% gold. It has 1ozt of 999 pure gold plus tiny amounts of copper and silver.

    Young Numismatist/collector
    Visit my eBay store kliao-69
    28 Positive BST transactions with 21 members and counting!

  • rickoricko Posts: 77,889 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whether alloyed or not, it is an ounce of gold....and in the form of an AGE, very easily converted to cash. The pure form (i.e. Gold Buffalo) is more a novelty for purists or collectors... Cheers, RickO

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold coin specifications

    Does not include the gold buffalo:

    Message me on how to get $40 free while earning 1% cashback on ebay purchases. Offer expires Dec. 25.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 39,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2020 8:34AM

    @Kliao said:

    An AGE doesn’t have 1ozt of 92% gold. It has 1ozt of 999 pure gold plus tiny amounts of gold and silver.

    I think you meant to say "plus tiny amounts of copper and silver".

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @Kliao said:

    An AGE doesn’t have 1ozt of 92% gold. It has 1ozt of 999 pure gold plus tiny amounts of gold and silver.

    I think you meant to say "plus tiny amounts of copper and silver".

    Whoops. Nice catch. Thx.

    Young Numismatist/collector
    Visit my eBay store kliao-69
    28 Positive BST transactions with 21 members and counting!

  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭

    As many others have said, the fact that the AGE is alloyed does not affect its value or liquidity in a negative way.

    However, if you have a small hoard (e.g. 50 - 100 ounces), you can drop them off at a major refiner, and they will convert it to 999 for about 1 % of total value. Refining it is not prohibitively expense.

    Higashiyama
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,033 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No ide> @Higashiyama said:

    As many others have said, the fact that the AGE is alloyed does not affect its value or liquidity in a negative way.

    However, if you have a small hoard (e.g. 50 - 100 ounces), you can drop them off at a major refiner, and they will convert it to 999 for about 1 % of total value. Refining it is not prohibitively expense.

    Can't imagine the need or desire to do that.

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw
    3, 60, 100, 103, 263, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724


  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭

    @softparade said: Can't imagine the need or desire to do that.

    Totally agree-but, just thought I’d offer another option in case the OP really wants a conversation to “pure” gold.

    Some refiners will actually let you witness the melt, which would be an interesting experience!

    Higashiyama
  • Please don't melt coins if you want gold just buy gold that is not a historic collectible.

  • Jinx86Jinx86 Posts: 3,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Simple chemistry. However a total waste of time and money.

    If you want details I can give a quick dirty break down.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 39,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been contaminated with base metals such as copper.

  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall: yes, I believe the Maple Leaf is considerably more popular than the AGE in Asia.

    Higashiyama
  • ffcoinsffcoins Posts: 425 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been contaminated with base metals such as copper.

    Can confirm this

  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    coins such as the AGE that do not circulate do not need to be made of an alloy to make them harder and tougher.

    Message me on how to get $40 free while earning 1% cashback on ebay purchases. Offer expires Dec. 25.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 24,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    they can still get contact marks

    https://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/bullion-coin-programs.html

    This creates harder coins that resist scratching and marring, which can diminish resale value.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 30,376 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    they can still get contact marks

    https://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/bullion-coin-programs.html

    This creates harder coins that resist scratching and marring, which can diminish resale value.

    You left out this part: "American Eagles use the durable 22-karat standard established for gold circulating coinage over 350 years ago."

    Message me on how to get $40 free while earning 1% cashback on ebay purchases. Offer expires Dec. 25.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 41,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been alloyed with base metals such as copper.

    :)

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been contaminated with base metals such as copper.

    I also read somewhere that Asian countries prefer 1kg gold bars unlike other countries which prefer the 400 oz Good Delivery Bars.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 39,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @PerryHall said:
    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been contaminated with base metals such as copper.

    I also read somewhere that Asian countries prefer 1kg gold bars unlike other countries which prefer the 400 oz Good Delivery Bars.

    A Kilogram gold bar is 32.15 Troy ounces which is considerably smaller than a 400 Troy ounce bar. I imagine most gold buyers would want the smaller gold coins considering how expensive these bars are. Even the Kilo gold bar is over $60,000.

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @PerryHall said:
    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been contaminated with base metals such as copper.

    I also read somewhere that Asian countries prefer 1kg gold bars unlike other countries which prefer the 400 oz Good Delivery Bars.

    A Kilogram gold bar is 32.15 Troy ounces which is considerably smaller than a 400 Troy ounce bar. I imagine most gold buyers would want the smaller gold coins considering how expensive these bars are. Even the Kilo gold bar is over $60,000.

    I know but I’m talking about governments.

    The Chinese government for example prefers 1kg bars in its gold reserves unlike the US which has 400oz gold bars in reserve at places like Fort Knox.

    Apparently they prefer smaller ones because it’s easier to check the authenticity.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 39,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @PerryHall said:
    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been contaminated with base metals such as copper.

    I also read somewhere that Asian countries prefer 1kg gold bars unlike other countries which prefer the 400 oz Good Delivery Bars.

    A Kilogram gold bar is 32.15 Troy ounces which is considerably smaller than a 400 Troy ounce bar. I imagine most gold buyers would want the smaller gold coins considering how expensive these bars are. Even the Kilo gold bar is over $60,000.

    I know but I’m talking about governments.

    The Chinese government for example prefers 1kg bars in its gold reserves unlike the US which has 400oz gold bars in reserve at places like Fort Knox.

    Apparently they prefer smaller ones because it’s easier to check the authenticity.

    Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of individual gold investors.

  • Gam3rBlakeGam3rBlake Posts: 162 ✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @PerryHall said:

    @Gam3rBlake said:

    @PerryHall said:
    It's interesting to note that Asian gold investors prefer 999.9 fine gold rather than gold that has been contaminated with base metals such as copper.

    I also read somewhere that Asian countries prefer 1kg gold bars unlike other countries which prefer the 400 oz Good Delivery Bars.

    A Kilogram gold bar is 32.15 Troy ounces which is considerably smaller than a 400 Troy ounce bar. I imagine most gold buyers would want the smaller gold coins considering how expensive these bars are. Even the Kilo gold bar is over $60,000.

    I know but I’m talking about governments.

    The Chinese government for example prefers 1kg bars in its gold reserves unlike the US which has 400oz gold bars in reserve at places like Fort Knox.

    Apparently they prefer smaller ones because it’s easier to check the authenticity.

    Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of individual gold investors.

    Ahhh no. 😆 I should’ve mentioned I was referring to governments. Mostly the Chinese government since that was the one mentioned in the article.

Sign In or Register to comment.