Ebay listing: "1921 Peace Dollar high relief NGC MS65+ nicely toned"....please advise
Goldbully
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-Peace-Dollar-high-relief-NGC-MS65-nicely-toned/203088211314
Can someone explain to me how this coin is......... 1. nicely toned....2. MS65+???
Please chime in.
I found this other 1921 Peaces dollar graded MS65 from the same TPG.
edited to add: sorry for this glaring error on my part.
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Comments
Wow. Toning is in the eye of the sight impaired beholder.
I like it!
I like them both- yet that toned one is cool.
Of course any 1921 Peace dollar is neat in my eyes.
peacockcoins
The picture matches the one on the NGC website.
I would never buy that coin as MS65. I don't think it is even uncirculated.
I'd take it!
"horror story"
Maybe the toning on the 1921 looks nicer in-hand. And maybe the 1923 looks worse, especially the invisible reverse.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Junk/melt to me. Ouch...
A few thoughts:
1- Giving NGC the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure the coin has much better lustre than the photos show
2- I will bet the toning has more color when it's properly illuminated. See #1.
3- eBay sellers are known to use hyperbole regarding descriptions of toning, so even if it's better than the photos show, it may not be that amazing. See #2.
4- The way the toning sits on the coin and fills in some of the lower points, especially with the poor lighting, looks to accentuate some strike weakness, possible in hand and definitely in the photos. For an issue known for poor strikes, I would be very surprised if the coin had actual wear. See #1.
5- The 1921 Peace dollar is a different coin than any other date. Its details are different, its strike is different, and its lustre is different. Using a well-lit, blast-white, nice common-date example to explain how a poorly lit, toned 1921 is incorrectly graded is comparing apples and oranges.
None of this is to say I want the coin--certainly if it looks as photographed--but what you have shown quite literally puts the coin in the worst possible light in every regard, and it's unfair to draw a conclusion based solely on that.
I apologize for posting a 1923 Peace dollar....totally different animal.
Let me get to work.
Thanks for all the comments so far.
The toning on the 21, if it looks that way in hand, does not enhance the design, imo. It makes Liberty look like something out of a horror movie. On the other hand, I would probably like it on a classic commemorative. There is something about portraits that lend them to some kinds of toning, or none at all, imo.
Found these two examples from PCGS.....both graded MS65+
all three certainly far from hammered.
Here's an MS65.....
I have a 1921 XF-AU with much better eye-appeal than the original post. Maybe its the photos but I can not see sufficient detail to warrant acquiring it. Coin is stored away and cannot post a picture.
Well the nicely toned part is just what is to be expected from the seller of the coin.
If you don’t think the coin looks uncirculated, you have some more looking to do.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
This is my 21, I didn’t want a bright white example. This one is PCGS 64 CAC
The strike on the eBay coin makes me question the + grade but the toning isn’t terrible
That's a beautiful coin.
i know toning and originality is not everyone's cup of the as the masses have spoken on this subject long ago; hundreds of millions of silver dollars, quarters, dimes and nickels etc ago BUT for those of us that like things mostly un-tampered with, that 1921 in the op has something i don't see many people comment on and we don't see it as often as i'd like and that is mint grease. usually toning like that is because/from the grease/sawdust etc they used to bathe these things in. the more and stronger coins get dipped, the less you see of it, eventually and not very difficultly, it will all be removed along with some luster usually. sometimes you will see satiny powder look, especially on peace dollars and this is a sign of lightly or professionally dipped coins and are quite attractive as it hits the middle of the board between greasy/dipped out.
the areas not toned (dark in this case although possible with color like airplanenut state) have a fair amount to a large amount of this grease. it is one way to recognize a coin that hasn't been dipped excessively.
some really nice 21 peace in this thread.
I don’t see “mint grease” on the subject coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Nor do I. I see some red/orange around the hair and I'd venture a bet that dark areas around the periphery are deep blue and burgundy, maybe with a bit of royal purple where they meet. But that kind of color photographs terribly if it's not properly illuminated.
That has got to be one of the ugliest Peace dollars I’ve ever seen, especially the obverse. But, the reverse isn’t too far behind. No I cannot explain away how that is attractive in any stretch of the imagination.
Crazy ugly👌
It looks gem uncirculated from here. Old Dansco coin. Take it or leave it eye appeal
The 1921 in the OP is extremely unattractive. The strike is very soft and that tobacco spit toning is a real turn-off. A coin that I wouldn't even consider. The 1923 is very nice and the two PCGS 1921s are 'okay' meaning I find them acceptable for the grade.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
To say the 1921 Peace is a different animal is an understatement..
A wide variety of strikes and toning exist.
I would walk right by that Peace dollar in the OP.... Ugly, very ugly.... IMO.... Ugliness, like beauty, is a personal judgement... and I personally judge that one uuuuuuugggggllllyyyyy!!!!!
Cheers, RickO
I happen to like the toning on the NGC 65+. Its clearly original and frames the devices nicely.
Without seeing the coin in hand, its hard to validate the gem grade, but from the pictures it looks fairly clean, if not weakly struck by 21 standards.
It definitely has original surfaces. I like it.
The 65+ coin probably has great luster and few marks, probably should be conserved.
Recently I bought a 1921 Peace dollar heavily toned, charcoal black. It dipped out very nicely and graded high.
I don’t think that toning could be removed, without leaving unappealing evidence of what was once there.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Pass!
I agree; in this case the toning looks so embedded in the surface to be impossible to remove without seriously downgrading the coin. I was more thinking of toning that can be removed without negative consequences.
Well, first it's dang hard to evaluate any coin from a look at only one side. Apart from that, I don't particularly like the look. The photo is probably not helping at all. The white coin is nice, but as you said it's a type 2, 1923. Different animal. You have to decide if you're looking for a white one or one with some character. I like them both ways, but I don't like them with large parts of the coin that approach terminal toning. Again, it might be more lively, more colorful, and more attractive in-hand.
Here's the reverse.
This is very true. I have a friend who is a very small time dealer. He sets up at small local shows. Well, he 'made' a 63 that he bought raw as a 58. I honestly can't remember if it's a P or an N. I just know that he is very proud of it and talks about it all of the time.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Yet one of the coins I most regret selling was a supremely original AU58 with a great strike... a coin I'd prefer over most 63s, not to mention it's cheaper.
My friend's coin is also supremely original. Dark, rich toning and good luster. The strike is decent but not super-sharp. I think for these two reasons it has the looks of an AU.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
NT ... it's wholesale ask. Seems better than fair.
I look at the coin - in this case it is a low end unattractive piece. Never cared for tarnished coins..... A nice lustrous BU graded MS 63 or 64 would better fill the hole. Buy coins that are PQ with super cartwheel luster, blazers and avoid pieces like that 1921.
The 1923 NGC 65 shown is definitely PQ w super luster. As far its description about toning would say typo or description copied in listing from another piece then not modified or deleted - no biggie just look at the coin and base your offer on that.
I still have this AU58 coin (10+ yrs later) but now in PCGS plastic.
I have listed a few coins on eBay with similar toning and they don't seem to take any longer to sell than untoned pieces. I am taking this to mean that different people have different ideas about what is "nice".
Wouldn't one need to see the coin in hand to be sure about the grade?
Here's one I bought strictly for the strike, a PCGS MS63. It's one of two that I have, with the other being an PCGS MS62 VAM3 that I cherrypicked around 20 years ago. I don't have an image of that one.
I still want it back
I think it's been more like 15 or 16 years...
If it ever goes, you can have 1st dibs on it. Has a green bean on it. Usually I don't send in my AU '21s, but guess this one caught my eye!
I got it for a good price and it was in the day when making 20 bucks was amazing. Live and learn.