US Mint Scammed My End of World War II 75th Anniversary American Eagle Gold Proof Coin

twilly · November 10, 2020 2:45PM

Has this happened to anyone else?

I managed to secure both a gold and silver coin, but the US Mint just cancelled my gold order because the "CC address did not match the address on the bank information." BUT - somehow the silver coin went through, has a tracking number, and everything matched fine. Even the customer service rep said "I can see why that seems suspicious..."

Incredibly disappointed and feel like I've been scammed by US Mint - I was really looking forward to adding this coin. Just feels like they oversold the coin and came up with a poor excuse to cancel my order. Had a confirmation, charge on my CC, and everything. Really was hoping I could get this coin and not have to pay an arm and a leg by scalpers...

TrueCaller · November 10, 2020 2:49PM

You are not the only one, looks like they felt that there was fraud around the gold coin so they cancelled lots that didn't match exactly even just an apartment or a suite number.
But I am really sorry for you, it could really be frustrating.

291fifth · November 10, 2020 2:50PM

When you play the new issues game you will win some and lose some.

twilly · November 10, 2020 2:52PM

I guess where I'm confused is the silver coin went through and the gold "magically" got cancelled. Even the lady on customer service said "I can see why that seems suspicious".

ChrisH821 · November 10, 2020 2:53PM

There must be some dollar amount at which they compare these things... don't know why they would not cancel the silver, unless they separate checkouts?
You could try calling them and see if they will un-cancel it.

foraiur · November 10, 2020 2:53PM

To be fair they have been quite clear on the need for those to match. It's not really a scam to hold people closely to terms for an item that so many are seeking. To not do so is unfair to those who follow the outlined rules. That said, quite unfortunate and many sympathies. I've lost my share of sought items due to things such as arbitrary CC fraud declines and other randomness.

twilly · November 10, 2020 2:54PM

Yeah I gave them a shot and there's nothing they can do. They just said "we can put you on our list to let you know when it's available again." Womp

twilly · November 10, 2020 2:55PM

@foraiur said:
To be fair they have been quite clear on the need for those to match. It's not really a scam to hold people closely to terms for an item that so many are seeking. To not do so is unfair to those who follow the outlined rules. That said, quite unfortunate and many sympathies. I've lost my share of sought items due to things such as arbitrary CC fraud declines and other randomness.

But that's the thing. They did match - they let my silver go through but not my gold. There was no difference in payments. I even checked my bank and CC and they have the same address, and same as my shipping. I'm convinced they oversold it and are randomly cancelling.

foraiur · November 10, 2020 2:57PM

It doesn't seem likely they oversold, given they've been selling more each day. The silver going through doesn't tell us much, except they may not be scrutinizing those sales to a similar degree. Of course, I am sympathetic. Just keep in mind new people often show up to forums with clear-cut sounding stories about how the Mint or a dealer or whatever company screwed them in some super clear way. It usually always turns out there is more to the story, and they were doing something that pointed to circumventing in some way either the rules or the spirit of the rules.

Goldminers · November 10, 2020 3:04PM

I am also wondering if the Mint oversold some, as a lot of people seem to have successfully ordered them after the first day. This was mentioned as a possible theory by another forum person in a similar post. Remember the last silver issue, where the real mintage "was revised".

MsMorrisine · November 10, 2020 3:08PM

@ChrisH821 said:
There must be some dollar amount at which they compare these things... don't know why they would not cancel the silver, unless they separate checkouts?
You could try calling them and see if they will un-cancel it.

they can't uncancel it.

Pedzola · November 10, 2020 3:11PM

I didn't realize they could cancel on you after order is confirmed.

MsMorrisine · November 10, 2020 3:14PM

complain to:

David J. Ryder, Director
United States Mint
801 9th Street, NW
Washington, DC 20220

include order numbers

BStrauss3 · November 10, 2020 3:17PM

Validation of bank cards (MasterCard & VIsa) is done by the issuing bank. And they are within their rights to put different levels of validation based on amount being charged.

It's sad that the mint's website is so poorly architected that this validation has to be done after the fact, when real eCommerce sites can do it real time with 100,000s or 1,000,000s of simultaneous orders,

I will say, being in the biz, that properly creating a website that scales like this is very difficult. You have to hire people who have done it successfully before, Not Bob's LOW-PRICE Tow and Website design. But it's very difficult to create a government contracting vehicle that puts a proper value on having successfully delivered sites that successfully implement these kinds of NFRs. And it's the case where you have to know you need to do it to know you need to do it,

Evaluation
Site Scaling (45 points)
The proposed vendor or vendor consortium shall provide evidence of previously constructing two (20 points) or three+ (30 points) eCommerce websites capable of scaling to a first come/first served sale of as few as 2,000 desirable items with an audience of 500,000 unique buyers at the same time. That is the inventory item(s) are reserved for the buyer at the time they are placed into the cart. A waitlist of buyers without reserved inventory must be created and maintained. If the cart is abandoned or the sale is not completed (for example credit card declined), the inventory item(s) are placed in the first waitlist buyer's cart.
An additional 5 points are awarded if the implementation resources are not required for normal operation, but can be manually enabled before the on-sale date/time of a desirable item.
An additional 15 points are awarded if the implementation resources are not required for normal operation, but are automatically enabled before the on-sale date/time of a desirable item.
The definition of a desirable item is one where the household limit and/or the available units are less than a parametric threshold.

One of my clients had a very simple contractual rule - the version of the software delivered by the vendor had to be successfully running in three separate clients of similar or larger size. No unique branches, no beta software, no "we'll build your unique bletch and then merge it into the baseline".

nags · November 10, 2020 3:41PM

@Pedzola said:
Making me nervous. I have a confirmed order for gold from Thursday that is still "processing," not shipped yet. Order was in a couple min after open at noon. I didn't realize they could cancel on you after order is confirmed.

Mine is showing the same status from a Thursday purchase. I'll breathe a little easier once it is shipped.

Wahoo554 · November 10, 2020 3:58PM

Terrible to hear what happened. That is a real punch in the gut. I don’t think you were scammed, but you were certainly hosed by the Mint.

Mgarmy · November 10, 2020 4:01PM

I feel for you man. We had one on day one and the credit card company sent us a text asking if we just made a purchase of 2695 (we had other stuff in the cart). Well in the crazy that was all that site crashing we did not hear the text, so the charge was declined.

twilly · November 10, 2020 4:07PM

Thanks for the sympathies everyone. My silver order officially shipped so if your gold order hasn't shipped yet I would give them a call ASAP before they cancel it. Am curious to see if they will cancel yours or not. Fingers crossed they don't

twilly · November 10, 2020 4:08PM

@nags said:

@Pedzola said:
Making me nervous. I have a confirmed order for gold from Thursday that is still "processing," not shipped yet. Order was in a couple min after open at noon. I didn't realize they could cancel on you after order is confirmed.

Mine is showing the same status from a Thursday purchase. I'll breathe a little easier once it is shipped.

My silver one shipped so hopefully your gold ships soon. I would call ASAP to confirm they're going to process and not cancel it! Fingers crossed they don't!

MsMorrisine · November 10, 2020 4:38PM

general complaint thread on ordering problems.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1046463/cw-the-u-s-mint-recorded-the-highest-website-traffic-we-have-ever-experienced-7-minute-sellout

derryb · November 10, 2020 4:52PM

@twilly said:
I guess where I'm confused is the silver coin went through and the gold "magically" got cancelled. Even the lady on customer service said "I can see why that seems suspicious".

Could have been two different employees reviewing the mint orders. The gold guy said no, the silver guy said yes.

And, they can cancel on you any time right up to the time it ships.

matt_dac · November 10, 2020 4:57PM

@Mgarmy said:
I feel for you man. We had one on day one and the credit card company sent us a text asking if we just made a purchase of 2695 (we had other stuff in the cart). Well in the crazy that was all that site crashing we did not hear the text, so the charge was declined.

It would not matter if you instantly replied and confirmed the purchase. Your credit card instantly blocked and canceled the transaction. They would have advised you to ‘process the transaction again with the seller’ after you would have confirmed it.

I lost out on the 1/2 oz gold commem for the same reason 😟

bestday · November 10, 2020 4:59PM

@twilly said:

@foraiur said:
To be fair they have been quite clear on the need for those to match. It's not really a scam to hold people closely to terms for an item that so many are seeking. To not do so is unfair to those who follow the outlined rules. That said, quite unfortunate and many sympathies. I've lost my share of sought items due to things such as arbitrary CC fraud declines and other randomness.

But that's the thing. They did match - they let my silver go through but not my gold. There was no difference in payments. I even checked my bank and CC and they have the same address, and same as my shipping. I'm convinced they oversold it and are randomly cancelling.

Ya got the Mint in the pants ..just move on, get the next one

MFeld · November 10, 2020 5:01PM

Definition of scam
“a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation”

The above has nothing to do with incompetent, sloppy, unprofessional, subpar, overwhelmed and so on. So, while I sympathize, I don’t see that anyone was scammed.

edgar · November 10, 2020 5:14PM

@twilly said:
Has this happened to anyone else?

Yes I placed an order for a certain item (with numbered COA) last year, Confirmed... Processing..... I waited more than a week, then it was cancelled! I called them, they said the bank rejected payment. I went to the banks no problem there, the mint probed the card, reserved the funds and did not complete the transaction. That was the same mint account, and bank card That I used for years, no changes.. I called the mint and complained, she said they would "kick it upstairs for review" ( I knew there was no such thing), she said they would reserve the item in inventory until resolution (I knew that can't do that).

Bottom line some unknown undiscribed bank issue caused the cancellation.

This time (on the 5th, for the silver, I got kicked out. and locked out. I started trying to order as a "guest" using cellular connection. Order confirmation!, but wait auto-correct mis-spelled my street name, and also my billing address. I tried calling to edit it, I sent an email to customer service.

As you were posting your message, I finally got through to someone, she was sympathetic, but said we cannot edit nor change, the order would likely be cancelled. I thanked her, and understood. I hung up......Then an email... order shipped, Lets see if USPS identifies the correct street.

This time a "typo" in the street name did not cause cancellation

MetroD · November 10, 2020 5:16PM

@Mgarmy said:
I feel for you man. We had one on day one and the credit card company sent us a text asking if we just made a purchase of 2695 (we had other stuff in the cart). Well in the crazy that was all that site crashing we did not hear the text, so the charge was declined.

@matt_dac said:
It would not matter if you instantly replied and confirmed the purchase. Your credit card instantly blocked and canceled the transaction. They would have advised you to ‘process the transaction again with the seller’ after you would have confirmed it.

I lost out on the 1/2 oz gold commem for the same reason 😟

I experienced a similar issue on a prior purchase attempt (i.e., a declined cc transaction).

Now, I contact my cc company before attempting to place an order over $1,000.00, and pre-authorize the charge. The cc company typically asks for the name of the vendor, and the amount of the purchase. In the event that I am unsuccessful at purchasing, the pre-authorization simply expires.

I realize that it is an extra step, but I have had no cc issues since adopting this practice. Being quick enough, and lucky enough to 'score' some of these limited-mintage releases is another matter.

derryb · November 10, 2020 5:36PM

Maybe the mint needs to establish customer cash accounts that can be funded by CC and approved prior to such a major release. They could open up purchasing a week before release and purposely oversell, then hold a lottery on day of issue to include all the purchasers. Those that win get a coin. Those that lose get a refund.

Mgarmy · November 10, 2020 5:39PM

@matt_dac said:

@Mgarmy said:
I feel for you man. We had one on day one and the credit card company sent us a text asking if we just made a purchase of 2695 (we had other stuff in the cart). Well in the crazy that was all that site crashing we did not hear the text, so the charge was declined.

It would not matter if you instantly replied and confirmed the purchase. Your credit card instantly blocked and canceled the transaction. They would have advised you to ‘process the transaction again with the seller’ after you would have confirmed it.

I lost out on the 1/2 oz gold commem for the same reason 😟

Yep. Wife called and went high and right on them. More cathartic than anything else. We told them flag anything over 5g. They said they would put a note in our file. 🤔

MFeld · November 10, 2020 5:40PM

@derryb said:
Maybe the mint needs to establish customer cash accounts that can be funded by CC and approved prior to such a major release. They could open up purchasing a week before release and provide and purposely oversell, then hold a lottery on day of issue to include all the purchasers. Those that win get a coin. Those that lose get a refund.

Just one very minor suggested change to the above - those that lose DON’T get a refund.😉

Raufus · November 10, 2020 6:16PM

@Wahoo554 said:
Terrible to hear what happened. That is a real punch in the gut. I don’t think you were scammed, but you were certainly hosed by the Mint.

Many of us were. Those who got coins, esp gold, are incredibly fortunate.

Raufus · November 10, 2020 6:21PM

@Mgarmy said:
I feel for you man. We had one on day one and the credit card company sent us a text asking if we just made a purchase of 2695 (we had other stuff in the cart). Well in the crazy that was all that site crashing we did not hear the text, so the charge was declined.

Sucks that the Mint just cancels orders w CC issues instead of giving customers a chance to fix them like virtually all other merchants.

The worst and seemingly dumbest thing of all is the lockouts. That seems an intentional design. If, after doing the puzzle proving you're a human you (predictably) get booted a few times and refresh you get locked out. Maddening and absurd. Locking out their own customers.

derryb · November 10, 2020 6:27PM

The lockouts were the result of a supposedly new bot blocking algorithm in the mint's software. Definitely needs some tweeking.

Wahoo554 · November 10, 2020 6:35PM

@Raufus said:

@Mgarmy said:
I feel for you man. We had one on day one and the credit card company sent us a text asking if we just made a purchase of 2695 (we had other stuff in the cart). Well in the crazy that was all that site crashing we did not hear the text, so the charge was declined.

Sucks that the Mint just cancels orders w CC issues instead of giving customers a chance to fix them like virtually all other merchants.

The worst and seemingly dumbest thing of all is the lockouts. That seems an intentional design. If, after doing the puzzle proving you're a human you (predictably) get booted a few times and refresh you get locked out. Maddening and absurd. Locking out their own customers.

It’s certainly very lazy of them to boot an order without an attempt at further inquiry. I hate it for those who had a confirmed order only to later see it get ripped away on a technicality. Brutal.

edgar · November 10, 2020 6:59PM

In my case the concluded that my debit card account didn't use my middle initial. It wasn't a problem in the past, but they claims that they employed a stricter level of validation on very limited supply, high demand items. The bank made the money available, the mint did not complete the transaction because of a missing middle initial, everything else verified.

Raufus · November 10, 2020 8:10PM

@derryb said:
The lockouts were the result of a supposedly new bot blocking algorithm in the mint's software. Definitely needs some tweeking.

I understand that. My point was simply how utterly, profoundly absurd that it is.

1) Once you do the annoying CAPTCHA you prove your human, you proved your human. WHY then lock you out???

2) Are the IT people at the Mint really clueless enough to not KNOW that their system sucks, is incapable of handling volume and that the vast majority of human customers WILL be booted and have to refresh many times???? Obviously they are. Unbelievable.

Raufus · November 10, 2020 8:14PM

@edgar said:
In my case the concluded that my debit card account didn't use my middle initial. It wasn't a problem in the past, but they claims that they employed a stricter level of validation on very limited supply, high demand items. The bank made the money available, the mint did not complete the transaction because of a missing middle initial, everything else verified.

Man that SUCKS!

I do a small test purchase before a big release.

I call my CC and let them know purchase is coming so I don't get delayed and have to ok the purchase via text.

I had no idea about the stricter level of validation. Can definitely see that issues there could be very difficult to predict.

This entire situation has been miserable. Its made me wish I never got into collecting moderns. I've been doing so since 2006. This experience has been the most miserable, frustrating and infuriating of them all by a huge margin.

cameonut2011 · November 10, 2020 8:29PM

I'm sorry to hear that. I guess this means that more coins will be available. Maybe you can snag it again?

stockergreen · November 10, 2020 8:30PM

What a mess

derryb · November 11, 2020 12:19AM

As frustrating and disappointing as it was, the good news is that everyone was on a level playing field. No one had an advantage over others.

Bochiman · November 11, 2020 1:14AM

You got screwed by the mint, like many others did, but they didn't "scam" you.
Bad wording choice. There's plenty on ebay that could actually teach you want "scam" means...sadly enough.

Onastone · November 11, 2020 5:37AM

I heard they pulled the gold from you on account you didn't shave that morning. Everything had to be perfect.

jmski52 · November 11, 2020 5:52AM

I heard they pulled the gold from you on account you didn't shave that morning. Everything had to be perfect.

That could be. I hadn't had my coffee, and my order wouldn't go through. Tomorrow, I'm having 3 coffees before I try to order.

ricko · November 11, 2020 5:55AM

I was one of the many that got 'blocked' after the captcha routine....very disappointing. That was for the ASE which I wanted for myself...being a war baby... Cheers, RickO

Cameonut · November 12, 2020 7:39PM

Look at all the whining on another fake rarity. I told you all this would happen.

I sat it all out and sipped some Hibiki whisky even though it was a little early in the day. I enjoyed myself.

edgar · November 17, 2020 11:02AM

@edgar said:

@twilly said:
Has this happened to anyone else?

This time (on the 5th, for the silver, I got kicked out. and locked out. I started trying to order as a "guest" using cellular connection. Order confirmation!, but wait auto-correct mis-spelled my street name, and also my billing address. I tried calling to edit it, I sent an email to customer service.

As you were posting your message, I finally got through to someone, she was sympathetic, but said we cannot edit nor change, the order would likely be cancelled. I thanked her, and understood. I hung up......Then an email... order shipped, Lets see if USPS identifies the correct street.

This time a "typo" in the street name did not cause cancellation

Aaaaaand it got all the way to to the carrier's truck and then...
.
.Drum roll!
.
.
.
Your package has a delivery exception. Your item was returned to the sender on November 16, 2020 at 2:08 pm in UPPER MARLBORO, MD 20772 because it could not be delivered as addressed.

I expected that, but wanted it to happen before they shipped it.

AUandAG · November 17, 2020 11:30AM

I logged on the day before the sale just to make sure all was okay with the connection, etc. Changed my credit card over to a different one but left the other there anyway. Just added the 2nd and made it the primary.
Then when I went to log on for the sale I was informed that my account was not available........It worked later in the day but not for the sale, either gold or silver.

bob

jmlanzaf · November 17, 2020 12:03PM

@edgar said:

@edgar said:

@twilly said:
Has this happened to anyone else?

This time (on the 5th, for the silver, I got kicked out. and locked out. I started trying to order as a "guest" using cellular connection. Order confirmation!, but wait auto-correct mis-spelled my street name, and also my billing address. I tried calling to edit it, I sent an email to customer service.

As you were posting your message, I finally got through to someone, she was sympathetic, but said we cannot edit nor change, the order would likely be cancelled. I thanked her, and understood. I hung up......Then an email... order shipped, Lets see if USPS identifies the correct street.

This time a "typo" in the street name did not cause cancellation

Aaaaaand it got all the way to to the carrier's truck and then...
.
.Drum roll!
.
.
.
Your package has a delivery exception. Your item was returned to the sender on November 16, 2020 at 2:08 pm in UPPER MARLBORO, MD 20772 because it could not be delivered as addressed.

I expected that, but wanted it to happen before they shipped it.

Oh good, another one will become available!

edgar · November 17, 2020 12:13PM

Yeah like playing ping pong, I have to try to buy it back.

MsMorrisine · November 17, 2020 12:15PM

for the money, I'd go to the PO and ask them to get it from the carrier. or call the post master and ask the same.

ELVIS1 · November 17, 2020 12:25PM

scam (skæm)
n
a stratagem for gain; a swindle
vb, scams, scamming or scammed
(tr) to swindle (someone) by means of a trick

Joe_360 · November 17, 2020 12:26PM

My Brother received full confirmation (on the mint website) on the purchase of the Silver coin. When he wanted to double check because he did not receive an email confirmation,, he tried to purchase again, and received a message that he already purchase this item and can't purchase again.

He has still yet to receive a confirmation email and/or have they taken funds from his account...

Probably not getting a coin??!? Now that is bad!

US Mint Scammed My End of World War II 75th Anniversary American Eagle Gold Proof Coin

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