Coin or Medal - Does it matter for demand?
Zoins
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A little while back it was theorized that Continental Dollars are actually foreign medals and not US coins.
Does it matter for demand?
Stack's says the following:
That the Continental "dollar" was intended as a medal and not a coin, and that it was struck in London in 1783 instead of an unknown American location in 1776, changes very little in the scheme of things. The Libertas Americana medal was coined in Paris but is consistently rated as among the most desirable American numismatic collectibles; the Continental "dollar" should not forfeit a similar place in the hearts of American collectors. It remains scarce, attractive, historic and valuable. It's a piece that Paul Revere -- no man of letters, typically -- felt passionately enough about to write a missive to the Bishop of London. And it's a piece that all of us grew up looking at and wanting to own, just as every generation of American collector since 1823 has. Indeed, the inclusion of a high grade and attractive Continental "dollar," as here, will continue to help define the difference between an average and outstanding collection of early American types.
- https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-P97WN/1776-1783-continental-dollar-newman-3-d-w-8460-rarity-4-currency-eg-fecit-pewter-ms-64-pcgs-cac
- https://www.pcgs.com/cert/10840617
Comments
IT would for a new issue. AT this point, the Continental dollars are what they are in the marketplace. Reclassifying them wouldn't change anything. IMHO
I would agree what is written above. I must say that Stacks sure did a nice write up, wonder who
the author is on this one? Do we know who does most of the descriptions on auctions?
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
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Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
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More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
To me, it does make a difference. They are still of interest, but have among other things moved from above, to below, Humbert Slugs. For example:
Continental Currency:
Humbert Slugs:
I think of them more like the Scovill Manufacturing Fugio Cents (with less known history) and Lovett Confederate Cents (which still sell for amazing levels), in that I think a lot of the interest in the Continental Currency pieces come from the fact that people grew up with them in the Red Book.
Of course, I love Scovill Fugio Cents and Lovett Confederate Cents, so I also still like theses as privately made medals, albeit with less known history.
This has a PCGS Price Guide value of $175,000 and I'm curious to see where it will end up.
The Continental Dollar has its place in numismatics solidified by many decades of being viewed as an iconic and historical artifact. I don't see anything changing that.
It's certainly iconic because it uses the design from the paper currency, but it's a bit harder to see the historical aspect now. I think it's place in numismatics may be different for the next generation that grows up with the newer information.
It still might be worth a lot of money (maybe even more given it's rarity and bifurcation), but as foreign exonumia, not US coinage which people assumed it was before.
It reminds me of people discussing the New Haven Fugio Restrikes, as they were called by the Red Book, as Scovill Manufacturing Replicas. Certain people, myself one of them, have great affinity for the Scovill pieces, but certain others view them much differently.
If demand for these does remain strong, it's a another good sign for exonumia.
There was a thread some years back which discussed the Continental Dollar and questioned when and where it was actually issued. As current collectors who always remember wanting to own one, thinking it was a real coin, pass from the scene its appeal will slowly decline. They will continue to bring good money in the future but not as much as if they were actual coins.
@coinsarefun.... "Do we know who does most of the descriptions on auctions?" Stef, I believe they are written by some of the same people that write wine descriptions.....
Cheers, RickO
If it is a medal, why is it the size of a dollar coin and imprinted with the word "CURRENCY"? More likely a privately issued pattern coin produced as a business venture. Without contemporary documentation, we can only speculate as to the intent of the issuer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
One reason would be that they were copying it from the paper money.
Good point. Another reason to believe it was intended to be a coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
sometimes, and I think this is a good example, the "Legend" reaches a point that is too great to be diminished by the "Truth" about its origin. it may prove very difficult to purge the "Legend" no matter how much evidence supporting it is lacking. conversely, it will prove difficult to have the "Truth" accepted by large parts of the Hobby. when large sums of money are involved, people quite often choose to believe what they want to believe. these are certainly collectible in their own right, but to my thinking they are an expensive foreign souvenir and not a Mythical first United States Dollar Coin.
for what I collect, they remind me of the 1853 Crystal Palace So-Called Dollar: erroneously listed as struck for the New York event, but clearly struck in Great Britain for the London structure. despite knowing this, it remains in the catalogue as HK-8 and HK-8a and is routinely listed at auction as representing the New York structure.
Myths die hard.
Does coin or medal make a difference? For the continental dollar I’d say no. Whether it was from the red book or something else there are few known plus it was from around the time of the nation’s birth so there will be demand. Not that different from some of the Washington medals that were popular in the mid 19th century.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
it's worth mentioning that the Jerry Buss - Larry Miller provenance is great from a sports perspective since they owned the Los Angeles Lakers and Utah Jazz respectively. I think they both need a coin collecting section on their Wikipedia pages. How many coin collectors have Wikipedia pages but no mention of their collecting accomplishments?
Will the next owner also own a major professional sports franchise?
Jerry Buss - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Buss
Larry Miller - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_H._Miller
A fantasy coin is a definite possibility.
Finding some records could help establish it as meant for real coinage.
As it is, it is a bit less than the Lovett Confederate Cent since that has a story from Robert Lovett, Jr. via John White Haseltine. The Lovett Confederate Cents have strong demand, so even with less of a story than those, the Continental Currency Dollars can still do well.
While not as definitive as the Crystal Palace SCD, the great thing about the Continental Dollar findings is that it can highlight more interest in exonumia
Really, it should never have been classified as a coin. Even if issued in the colonies in 1776, there was no monetary authority behind it, was there?
Myths die very hard when money is involved, especially big money.