Bad buyer with private feedback.........update
ifthevamzarockin
Posts: 8,908 ✭✭✭✭✭
Buyer tried to negotiate a 35% discount after the sale & delivery.
When I refused a partial refund they lied to file a false SNAD claim.
This buyer knows how to work ebay's return system and I would be willing to bet there is a good reason their feedback is private.
One of the 3 ebay CSR's that I talked to admitted there is a pattern of returns with this buyer.
Ebay or PayPal has not placed a hold on the funds from this transaction and a hold is a common practice with a SNAD case.
Buyer is not responding to my messages and is not responding to ebay's request for more information.
Report has been filed with ebay and I am waiting for a decision from them.
I will post ebay's final decision but no other details will be given.
If you would like the buyer's ID for your BBL send me a PM. 
Comments
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What a nightmare. And a bad human being.
If the buyer doesn't respond to the request for more information you win!
The buyer waited until within the last 2 hours before ebay would have closed the case.
His reply caused the case to remain open.
His reply was "Stop wasting my time and send a return label."
I just got the decision from ebay, they found in the buyer favor saying "I would not work thinks out with the buyer."
Buyer tried to negotiate a better deal after the sale and that is a ebay policy violation.
Buyer lied to make a false SNAD claim that violates ebay's return policy.
Buyer broke 2 ebay rules and I did nothing wrong.... that's ebay for ya!
I have been selling on ebay for 17 years and not 1 negative feedback. That may change soon.
I plan to appeal it but don't think there is much chance of them changing their minds.
To the folks that wanted the ID you can see ebay found in the buyers favor.
If you trust my side of the story leave them on your BBL.... if not you may want to remove them from your BBL.
Did the buyer try to negotiate the lower price (after the sale) through EBay messaging? If so, it seems that you should have won your case.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Mfield "Did the buyer try to negotiate the lower price (after the sale) through EBay messaging?"
Yes, and I opened a case before I sent my reply to the buyer denying the return.
Very sorry to hear that. I’d definitely appeal it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Just got off the phone with ebay.
The CSR said "we have plenty of documentation about this case and are still reviewing it."
He made it sound like it's not over ?????
He said call us as soon as you get the coins back.
Wow what a nightmare. What $ amount was the item? Do you think this guy try’s to target big ticket stuff?
My last memorable experience guy bought coin, wants return, then says he mixed up my return with one he returning to other seller. I get other sellers coin same day email from eBay I have 2 days refund (bc buyers tracking). I called buyer some convo / rolled dice refunded him (get eBay off field) returned other sellers coin, got my coin back. My coin was under $100. Unbelievable. Would say honest mistake on part of buyer but what a rollercoaster ride.
It was a smaller sale of only $100
I feel very fortunate it was not a bigger ticket item.
If a buyer has private feedback does that mean no comments can be read? Sellers can not leave negative feedback anyway. I suspect if it is a repeating type thing buyer would have sellers leave stuff like 'wanted deep discount/refund once he got it'.
The last time I gave a partial refund it was on a buffalo nickel starter set. I did not mention that the 1915-D (they called it a key) was acid etched.
And as I recall, you initially thought the buyer might be a scammer, right?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Once the dust settles please out the bastidge here so we all can block him.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
@davewesen "If a buyer has private feedback does that mean no comments can be read?"
That is correct.
I am not positive on this but I think if you cancel the sale then he can't leave negative FB.
I did a BIN for a D Carr piece from a seller on ebay who had listed it at $2 instead of $200. They canceled the sale and refunded me and I don't think I was able to leave feedback.
Your case is different since he needs to send the coin back. Nor sure if you can cxl at that point or if there are other ramifications.
I will post an update or the final outcome. If you want to block him now just send me a PM.
I am not using Ebay as a sales venue right now and don't plan to for several years. But I sure don't want to buy anything from that creep. I am sure others feel the same way. But I will go ahead and send a PM.
Thanks
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Why not? Everybody there knew at very least he was a screwball buyer (similar to this one here). With those critters / anything possible lol.
I did not know how it would turn at that time and this before received the other guys coin (package could have had rocks in it) convo w buyer / too many weird coincidences ......If scammer he could have probably pulled it off. Anything is possible. The point is you have a 3rd party (eBay) getting involved. But I was gambling the cost of my coin if he did not return. The experience (and this thread) reinforced my outlook I probably don’t want do big material there say over $300-$500 (bay). A day later the bourse chairman from a local show have attended frequently called offering good deal on a table at upcoming event. My advice - consult an attorney if you get a similar situation (someone seeking a return of unsolicited material before you have received yours back) especially if big ticket material.
If anything I did the nice thing (TOFT) -refunding buyer / returning other sellers item in good faith would get mine back.
I will take a return and don't have a problem with it. IIRC I have had 2 returns in 17 years.
I do have a problem when the buyers first communication is a lie and asking for money back.
Similar thing happened to me. Buyer wanted to return a coin because he changed his mind, I said sure- send it back for a refund. He then filed a SNAD claim because, as he told me in a message through eBay's message system, even though there was nothing wrong with the coin, he didn't want to pay the return postage.
I contacted eBay's "customer service", they agreed with me that the buyer was violating their policy on SNAD abuse and then told me that I still had to pay the return postage. Because reasons.
As a general rule, eBay doesn't give a rip about sellers when a buyer complains about something. Best case scenario for sellers if you're lucky- they might abide by their posted policies. The rest of the time, you're on your own.
So were you going to leave him a Neg for an obvious Typo?
No, not at all.
If anything I would have left them a negative for not fessing up to their error.
I knew the sale would not happen at that price, but I did not want to leave the item hanging out there. I was curious how they were going to handle it.
They simply said the item was no longer available. That was an obvious lie as I bought it right after they listed it. They could/should have just come clean and I might have done the $200. It was one of D Carr's bronze art plaques that had an edition of maybe 12, and they virtually never come up for sale on ebay.
Actually, I've never left anyone a negative or even neutral feedback. I try to do my research in advance and clarify anything questionable in advance.
Thanks for all the kind, supportive responses!
I feel very lucky to have had very few problems on ebay over the years.
I have had very few bad buyers & bad sellers and have had very few lost items in the mail.
I knew one day my number would come up.
I am not that upset and I will not go hungry or lose sleep over it.
This is a cost of doing business much like shoplifting is for a big retail store.
The amount I have made from ebay over the years far offsets a small loss.
I lose more than this every time I go to a casino.
It's not the amount of money, it's the fact of being lied to and ebay not enforcing their own policy to protect sellers.
It just ruffles my feathers a bit.
Just got another message from ebay.
"Should the buyer leave negative or neutral feedback, it will be removed automatically."
Not sure what is going on.....it must be a 2020 thing.
If ebay said that they ruled in your favor...pretty sure! Has the buyer or ebay sent you a tracking number for the return?
@amwldcoin "If ebay said that they ruled in your favor...pretty sure!"
That is what I would think too but they for sure ruled in the buyers favor and I am forced to take the return.
I am confused now......like I said I think this is just a 2020 thing.
Edited to add: "Has the buyer or ebay sent you a tracking number for the return?"
Sorry I missed that part the first time.
I would not send a return label so the ebay CSR said that ebay has sent them one.
The return was just approved by ebay today so I don't expect a tracking number until Monday.
Watch your account and see if you get charged for the shipping. That won't happen unless the buyer prints the shipping label. If they do you will be notified with a tracking number. Keep us posted, as I've not heard of feedback being blocked if they rule in the buyers favor.
Do you guys generally consider "private feedback" to be a red flag when dealing with someone on eBay?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@amwldcoin The ebay CSR said I would be charged for the shipping.
@PerryHall I have sold to quite a few "Private Feedback" and never had a problem. It's not a big red flag to me until I have a problem with them and start to wonder what it may be hiding
For buyers, private feedback can't be hiding anything except positive feedback.
It can hide a false positive and you can also reply to feedback left and put a massage there. Good chance ebay will remove it if they see it or the buyer requests it to be removed. It could also be hiding that they were a seller and had a bunch of bad feedback.
Edited to add:
It can also hide if they have been leaving a bunch of negatives for other sellers.... you can't see "feedback left for others."
buyers name?
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
Yes, you're correct. How often have you encountered such things?
You're gonna get an empty package back.
Some sellers do not want to give up the high feedback count by opening a new account. They will do several pages of feedback as a buyer to put all the bad stuff far enough back that most people will not go back that far. It is more common than you would think and I have seen it done quite a few times.
I have also seen where a seller will reply to the negative feedback on their page rather than the buyers page.
It is rare to see..... but it seems it may be harder for the buyer to get it removed.
LOL..... Yep, I'm kinda worried about that.
Contact the postmaster in advance and ask him if s/he can help you with mail fraud. Tell them this situation and ask if they could open the package for you. Contact Ebay and give them the time and the PM's work contact. You could opt to give him or her your contact details for the mail fraud claim they're investigating.
They will shut this down.
Work through ebay.
Wrong. Private feedback also hides feedback the buyer has left. I know that reading buyer feedback is usually a waste of time (rarely will you see a buyer with "false positives" that give you a hint of problems. However, when my suspicions are raised with a buyer, I read their feedback left. Oh, lots of poor comments (whether positives with bad comments or actual negs/neutrals)? Blocked. When a buyer hides their feedback, all of that information is gone. The biggest tell for a problem buyer is the feedback they leave, not what they receive.
You misunderstood my comment. My post was a reply to ifthevamzarockin, who said:
"I have sold to quite a few "Private Feedback" and never had a problem. It's not a big red flag to me until I have a problem with them and start to wonder what it may be hiding."
By the time you have a problem, looking up the feedback left by a buyer to see if there are past problems is not really much help.
@MasonG
Once someone makes a purchase from me the first thing I do is check their feedback.
If I see a pattern of leaving negative feedback or other problems I will cancel the sale and place them on my BBL.
Fair enough. But once you have a problem...
"It's not a big red flag to me until I have a problem with them..."
looking up the feedback doesn't tell you anything you don't already know. I know I wasn't clear about that earlier, but that's the point I intended.
Agreed to an extent. If I have a problem with a buyer (let's say a return request that seems like it's teetering on unreasonable), and I look at their feedback and everything looks great, then I may be more willing to think that maybe there is a real issue that I missed and will work it from that angle. If I notice lots of red flags, I'm much more likely to try and get eBay involved ASAP to get on the record before I'm pinned too far into the corner. True, I can no longer stop whatever problem is going to occur, but my defense will change based on what I see. If a buyer has private feedback, I can only assume what's there, but I can never know.
For the record, if there were a setting to auto block buyers with private feedback, I'd turn it on in a heartbeat.
@MasonG
Ebay is not perfect, I am not perfect & all buyers are not perfect. I just do the best I can to avoid problems and it has worked pretty well for 17 years.
@airplanenut Well said
+1
You don't need to see the feedback when they start off lying to you.
I'm hoping to find out in PMs.
One for the blocklist
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
I just found another reporting link that I have not used yet, this is what I just sent to ebay.
Buyer tried to negotiate a discount after the sale. (an ebay policy violation)
Buyer lied about the condition of the item to make a false SNAD claim. ( an ebay policy violation )
This buyer has violated 2 ebay policies. My listing photos are very clear and the item is exactly as described. The buyer is taking advantage of ebay's return system. Buyers remorse and lying is not a valid reason for a return as per ebay policy.
Ebay has found in the buyers favor for the reason "You can't work things out with the buyer." I should not have to work things out with a dishonest buyer and according to ebay policy I should not have to. Ebay is putting me at risk as a seller buy forcing me to "work things out" with a buyer that has violated 2 ebay policies in 1 transaction. This is not protecting me as a seller. I feel like I am being taken advantage of by the seller & by ebay.
I understand the case is still under review and I appreciate the help by ebay to resolve this in a fair manner. Thanks for your help!
Edited to add:
For any sceptics that think I may have just typed this up and not filed a report.
(sorry this is the only way I know how to do a screen shot)
Good luck buddy.
Maybe all these eBay issues coming up are the pebbles that start a movement away from that platform for coins. Some would go to GC most likely, others could be stood up as separate web site presences, but there are other venues out there.