Home U.S. Coin Forum

Worth sending these into PCGS/What would you grade these?

These are in a NGC details holder, was wondering if it's worth either cracking it out or trying to cross it into a PCGS holder. A dealer I've talked to said they deserve a 2nd chance.
https://imgur.com/a/a5pQHFE

Comments

  • AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What did they "details" for?

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,925 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2020 5:10PM

    Looks like the 1807 has a rim ding that is peaking out from the prong and possibly an old cleaning. Not sure on the other.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems like they are fine where they are....Why invest more money in those coins? Cheers, RickO

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,549 ✭✭✭✭✭

    May I make a suggestion? I think you are a new young collector and, as such, you'd be better off buying coins already slabbed in non-details holders (or, avoiding raw coins and trying to get them into non-details holders). This will protect the value in what you buy as as you go through your learning curve.

    Another suggestion would be to consolidate your funds into buying fewer coins, placing an emphasis on quality over quantity. This is hard to do since the passion to acquire most of what interests you is powerful. I know, I've been there. There is quality in every grade level so it isn't about buying a coin in the highest grade that matches your resources.

    Glad you are here to share your coins. :)

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't mess with it.

  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have to always remember the costs let alone time that is involved with sending a coin in.

    So many people have a $60 coin they send in and spend $50 extra on and end up with a $60 coin.

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2020 8:15AM

    No - don’t buy details coins. I would not spend money further on them, especially if a gamble.

    Get rid of them.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • CalifornianKingCalifornianKing Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:
    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    I'd like them to get into a non-details holder. And unfortuantly I cannot. The computer I am on has Java script dis-abled by the admin.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:
    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    I'd like them to get into a non-details holder. And unfortuantly I cannot. The computer I am on has Java script dis-abled by the admin.

    With all due respect, if you want a coin that's not in a details holder, you should buy a coin that's not in a details holder. On rare occasion a regrade or a crossover will get a details coin to straight grade, but the folks who are going to see that happen are those who have very discerning eyes and a knowledge of the grading companies, and perhaps a bit of luck, as well. I would venture a bet that the vast majority of details coins for NGC or PCGS will be details coins at both NGC and PCGS.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • CalifornianKingCalifornianKing Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:
    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    I'd like them to get into a non-details holder. And unfortuantly I cannot. The computer I am on has Java script dis-abled by the admin.

    With all due respect, if you want a coin that's not in a details holder, you should buy a coin that's not in a details holder. On rare occasion a regrade or a crossover will get a details coin to straight grade, but the folks who are going to see that happen are those who have very discerning eyes and a knowledge of the grading companies, and perhaps a bit of luck, as well. I would venture a bet that the vast majority of details coins for NGC or PCGS will be details coins at both NGC and PCGS.

    I bought the 1833 in a EF45 ANSACS holder, and the 1807 as a raw one.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2020 12:41PM

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing? Sometimes valuable information about the coin's condition is omitted.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing?

    I would think more information on a coin's condition is better than less information.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2020 12:45PM

    @PerryHall said:

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing?

    I would think more information on a coin's condition is better than less information.

    I agree, which is why I asked "Why is that a good thing" in response to logger7's post "One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this...."

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing? Sometimes valuable information about the coin's condition is omitted.

    Saves ink and they can keep their fees lower

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:
    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    I'd like them to get into a non-details holder. And unfortuantly I cannot. The computer I am on has Java script dis-abled by the admin.

    With all due respect, if you want a coin that's not in a details holder, you should buy a coin that's not in a details holder. On rare occasion a regrade or a crossover will get a details coin to straight grade, but the folks who are going to see that happen are those who have very discerning eyes and a knowledge of the grading companies, and perhaps a bit of luck, as well. I would venture a bet that the vast majority of details coins for NGC or PCGS will be details coins at both NGC and PCGS.

    I bought the 1833 in a EF45 ANSACS holder, and the 1807 as a raw one.

    So what did NGC call the 1833, and why did you try to cross it to NGC in the first place?

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • CalifornianKingCalifornianKing Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭✭

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:
    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    I'd like them to get into a non-details holder. And unfortuantly I cannot. The computer I am on has Java script dis-abled by the admin.

    With all due respect, if you want a coin that's not in a details holder, you should buy a coin that's not in a details holder. On rare occasion a regrade or a crossover will get a details coin to straight grade, but the folks who are going to see that happen are those who have very discerning eyes and a knowledge of the grading companies, and perhaps a bit of luck, as well. I would venture a bet that the vast majority of details coins for NGC or PCGS will be details coins at both NGC and PCGS.

    I bought the 1833 in a EF45 ANSACS holder, and the 1807 as a raw one.

    So what did NGC call the 1833, and why did you try to cross it to NGC in the first place?

    ef45 straight grade. Because I was a in-experinced noob, also I thought NGC's holders looked better, also I sent them both in via express since I was inpatient, took 2 weeks instead of the promised 2 days.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:
    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    I'd like them to get into a non-details holder. And unfortuantly I cannot. The computer I am on has Java script dis-abled by the admin.

    With all due respect, if you want a coin that's not in a details holder, you should buy a coin that's not in a details holder. On rare occasion a regrade or a crossover will get a details coin to straight grade, but the folks who are going to see that happen are those who have very discerning eyes and a knowledge of the grading companies, and perhaps a bit of luck, as well. I would venture a bet that the vast majority of details coins for NGC or PCGS will be details coins at both NGC and PCGS.

    I bought the 1833 in a EF45 ANSACS holder, and the 1807 as a raw one.

    So what did NGC call the 1833, and why did you try to cross it to NGC in the first place?

    ef45 straight grade. Because I was a in-experinced noob, also I thought NGC's holders looked better, also I sent them both in via express since I was inpatient, took 2 weeks instead of the promised 2 days.

    But up top you said it was in a details holder...

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing? Sometimes valuable information about the coin's condition is omitted.

    Usually the other problems are obvious, a submitter is paying for a grade and accuracy obviously but may not want doubly critical problem descriptions. Also would like to see inbetween grades with PCGS and NGC, ie EF45 details or AU58 details.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing? Sometimes valuable information about the coin's condition is omitted.

    Usually the other problems are obvious, a submitter is paying for a grade and accuracy obviously but may not want doubly critical problem descriptions. Also would like to see inbetween grades with PCGS and NGC, ie EF45 details or AU58 details.

    I don't think that's a very good assumption, especially in the world of photography and online sales. "They didn't call it X but they could have" gives sellers a lot of plausible deniability if they only describe the noted problem, meanwhile a seller may not want to be overly critical lest they hurt the coin they are selling by assuming. A good example is a cleaned coin that is details graded for a scratch. I've seen plenty, but I've also seen an occasional coin that had similar surfaces that wasn't called cleaned. Do I describe the coin as cleaned because 90% of the coins that look like it are in a details holder for cleaning, or do I not because PCGS/NGC decided the scratch was most worthy of being noted, and maybe the coin would have straight graded without the scratch?

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,650 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing?

    I would think more information on a coin's condition is better than less information.

    If you’re the seller of a problem coin the less information is probably better.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @logger7 said:
    One good thing about PCGS is they are loathe to use double problem descriptions on coins like this. Anacs and Icg will say "cleaned and corroded", etc., sometimes.

    Why is that a good thing? Sometimes valuable information about the coin's condition is omitted.

    Usually the other problems are obvious, a submitter is paying for a grade and accuracy obviously but may not want doubly critical problem descriptions. Also would like to see inbetween grades with PCGS and NGC, ie EF45 details or AU58 details.

    Sometimes, the other problems are obvious, but other times, not. Also, while some submitters might prefer that fewer problems be noted, potential buyers would rather have more information.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:

    @CalifornianKing said:

    @airplanenut said:
    I'm guessing the 1807 is cleaned and/or rim damage.

    For the 1833, I'd guess cleaned and or artificial surfaces/color, though the photo is too dark to see if there's something more obvious.

    Two questions:

    1- Why do you want to cross them? What's your ultimate goal with the coins?
    2- Can you post the photos in the thread to make it easier for everyone to see them?

    I'd like them to get into a non-details holder. And unfortuantly I cannot. The computer I am on has Java script dis-abled by the admin.

    With all due respect, if you want a coin that's not in a details holder, you should buy a coin that's not in a details holder. On rare occasion a regrade or a crossover will get a details coin to straight grade, but the folks who are going to see that happen are those who have very discerning eyes and a knowledge of the grading companies, and perhaps a bit of luck, as well. I would venture a bet that the vast majority of details coins for NGC or PCGS will be details coins at both NGC and PCGS.

    I bought the 1833 in a EF45 ANSACS holder, and the 1807 as a raw one.

    So what did NGC call the 1833, and why did you try to cross it to NGC in the first place?

    ef45 straight grade. Because I was a in-experinced noob, also I thought NGC's holders looked better, also I sent them both in via express since I was inpatient, took 2 weeks instead of the promised 2 days.

    Unless something has changed drastically, “Express” service isn’t listed as two days or promised within any particular length of time.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd call the first coin cleaned or harshly cleaned. The pits in the surface may indicate environmental damage. The second coin the original poster linked looks harshly cleaned. Graders would be unanimous in calling them problem coins.

  • morgandollar1878morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 1807 has more than one problem, and from the looks of the second coin I would say that I agree with the assessment from ATS on both coins. Save yourself anymore headache and just leave them as they are and learn from it.

    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,737 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1807 looks to have many marks on the obverse that look like damage from a pointed tool of some sort. The 1833 is to dark to tell.

    Trade $'s

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file