1971-S First Strike Ikes (aka President Nixon Presentation Sets)
DrDarryl
Posts: 616 ✭✭✭✭✭
The Nixon Presentation Ike dollar that was discovered several years ago had a questionable provenance. https://coinweek.com/featured-news/nixon-presentation-ike-dollar-discovered/#:~:text=Discovered%20by%20numismatist%20Andy%20Oskam%2C%20the%20Nixon%20Presentation,and%20a%20golden%20facsimile%20of%20President%20Nixon%E2%80%99s%20signature.
Today, there exists other previously unknown Nixon Presentation Ike dollars, the difference is that each of these have a provenance letter.
This is the 1971-S proof presentation set from Mary Brooks (Director of the Mint) to President Eisenhower military aide (General Schulz).
General Schulz specimen.
There are three known 1971-S Blue Ike presentation sets gifted by President Nixon.
Congressman Rogers specimen.
Congressman Natcher specimen.
Congressman Stephens specimen.
Are there more out there?
Comments
Wow! These are amazing finds. Really impressive that these weren't known back in 2013!
Why are these coming to light now? Is someone researching and reaching out to people? Or is someone publishing and people looking up and sending info on what they have?
The value of the Ike dollar featured in the CoinWeek article is not primarily based on its provenance - it is valuable because it is an extremely rare variety (1971-S proof Type 1 reverse).
Relatively speaking, the 3 coins you've shown photos of are probably not very valuable. The letters seem to be of historical interest, but I suspect they are unlikely to add any more than modest value to the coins, at best. The proof is a common 1971-S proof Type 2 reverse Ike and is in extremely poor condition.
I would need to see better photos to say for sure, but the 2 blue Ikes are most likely normal silver business strike Ikes. They would only be really valuable if they were Prototype Ikes.
Good point @IkesT. The Andy Oskam Discovery Specimen is just 1 of 3 1971-S Proof Ikes muled with the Type 1 low relief reverse.
It's amazing what you can find on eBay!
@Zoins - As of now, it looks like there are 7 examples of the proof Type 1 reverse certified by TPG's - still very few!
@DrDarryl - Thank you for showing us these coins with an interesting history and presidential connection. If these are your coins, or you are thinking of buying them, the first thing you should do is find out if either of the blue Ikes are Prototypes, because that is where most of the value would be. It's very unlikely that they are, but you never know.
If sets like these were publicly offered for sale, the first thing an Ike collector would want to know is if they contain one of the rare varieties. If not, there would be less interest in them. That is not to say the historical value is worth nothing (Edit: they do have significant value), but it's not going to be in the same league as a rare variety. I just wanted to make sure you are aware of this, because you started your post by comparing these coins to a rare variety that has a much, much greater value.
With coins like these, there would undoubtedly be some crossover interest with people who collect presidential/political memorabilia. Perhaps, the coins might even be more sought after in that market - hard to say.
I have several Ike dollars in mint boxes. Never saw the brown one before. Interesting history of these pieces, but not much value in the coins beyond the provenance. Thank you @IkesT for your inputs... always learn things when the experts contribute here. Cheers, RickO
Any info on where the Type 1 reverse coin with the Nixon box is today? I would think it would be worth a couple hundred grand if it is the only one.
“Any info on where the Type 1 reverse coin with the Nixon box is today? I would think it would be worth a couple hundred grand if it is the only one.“
I have a Nixon box with my Ty 1 coin in my registry set. And, I Greatly doubt I have the only one.
Wondercoin
Yes, unless you own the one in the CW article.
Is yours the Andy Oskam Discovery Specimen?
“Is yours the Andy Oskam Discovery Specimen?“
I don’t believe so, unless someone crossed his over to NGC at a higher grade before I thereafter crossed it back over to PCGS. I paid “serious” money for the coin currently in my registry set that came with the Nixon box. As opposed to my son, Justin, who, IMHO, is highly deserving of a “you suck” award. Justin cherry-picked his Ty 1 Ike find from my vast inventory of 1971-S proof Ikes grading PCGS-PR69DCAM. He thereafter placed his coin with a top Ike $1 collector.
Wondercoin
That's awesome. Did you find out about it before or after you gave/sold it to him
Your son sucks. The student is now the master
Zoins. It’s a very long story. Justin originally thought he had cherry-picked a very scarce FS-103!
Wondercoin
I think this presidential box is very cool and I await someone finding clear proof of its distribution when Mrs. Eisenhower was present. I wonder if somewhere a photo shows anything passed out before President Nixon took to the microphone about missing out.
Wondercoin, you think the current population is 7? I've heard rumored 3 presidential boxes exist? Does that agree with your best current guess?
Thanks for posting.
GoBust...
I really don’t know how many boxes might still exist, but I felt it was greatly unlikely that I had the only one. So, I commented here.
Wondercoin
The Schulz coin appears to have been stored in the folded up Brooks letter. And not done a good job of preservation. The coin is almost worthless, but the letter and coin together have substantial value.
Had anybody checked with the Nixon Library to see what they have?
Yes - that was noted in the CoinWeek article. Neither the coin or the box was mentioned in the Nixon Library records.
I wonder if all the Type 1 Proof Reverses can be associated with Nixon.
The letters are a great piece of history.
With these boxes and letters, it's really amazing what's out there undiscovered for so long!
Just want to mention these are the kinds of threads I really love on the forums!
Yes Wondercoin, thanks for sharing. I own one still in the Nixon seal box as well. Just thought the piece was too cool, even though not much was known about them at first.
Is yours also a Type-1 reverse proof?
Perhaps others may have missed the previous thread posted by @DrDarryl - I know I did!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1037227/the-unsung-first-day-issues
In addition to the Ikes, he shares examples of newly minted 1964 Kennedy half dollars and 1965 clad quarters that were presented to congressmen by President Johnson.
He also pointed out one such coin that sold through GreatCollections for just over $1,400:
https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/611606/1964-Kennedy-Silver-Half-Dollar-With-Presentation-Letter-on-White-House-Stationary-Signed-by-President-Lyndon-Johnson-Uncertified-in-Capital-Plastics-Display-Board
So I must admit I was too dismissive about the value of these coins. In thinking about common coins with a neat provenance, I was putting more weight on the common coins, but the market clearly put more weight on the neat provenance, in this case. By comparison, the 1971-S proof Type 1 reverse Ikes (and presumably, the prototype Ikes), do sell for quite a bit more, but clearly the coin & presidential letter sets have significant value in their own right.
The coin is for coin collectors.
The letters are for historians.
That's a good way of putting it.
Yes Zoins Type 1.
Interesting thread with many loose ends. And just to clarify some of the some of the questions with answers as to what seems to be currently known-
Counting the GoBust Nixon presentation box, I believe there are 12 known tI know of but it is not clear how many were made. Not all of the Nixon presentation boxes contain the rare Type I reverse. There are 4 that contained the Type II reverse.
It seems that the total combined population at PCGS and NGC of the type I proofs can be reduced by crossovers.
Some suggest this may be mule but if the Nixon presentation boxes can be traced to the first proofs struck, it raises speculation that the Type I reverse was the planned and anticipated design but deemed by Mint Officials to be inadequate in a proof format. And if this can ever be established through satisfactory documentation, it seems the Type I Proof would earn a rightful place as a major 20th century rarity.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
That was rumored to be the case - specifically, that one person has a small hoard of them. As far as I know, no one has actually stepped forward to prove it (not to the general public, anyway).
It's already a major rarity, regardless. The story behind the coin is undoubtedly important and interesting (should it ever be fully uncovered) but the coin has plenty of cachet without it.
I doubt that there is a way to determine or prove an exact surviving population for the Nixon boxes other than poll collectors who either own them or can trace them through sales and auctions. As I wrote, I know of 12.
@IkesT
I agree with you that the type I already is a major rarity. I just think a clear story behind it would help solidify and elevate the coin to it's rightful status.
As for the Type I population, the one was auctioned by Heritage afew years back that was graded by NGC and I believe that is the coin that Wondercoin crossed and currently resides in a PCGS holder. So there is duplication within those numbers
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
This may be irrelevant because of the time gap between the 1971-S Ikes and the Cheerios dollars, but let me offer an observation on how the latter came to be.
I first saw a 2000-P Sacagawea dollar at a press conference in Chicago in October of 1999. A Mint representative was showing representatives of the vending machine industry how well the coins worked in vending machines. There were several major types of vending machines up on a low dais, and he fed coins into each one and they all worked.
Afterwards I got to hold one of the coins for a few minutes. Being the nitpicker that I am I counted the tail feathers and got 12. However, when the coins were released in January of 2000 I got some and counted 13 tail feathers. I kept inquiring about the change and the Mint kept denying that any change had been made. Eventually I surmised that the earlier design might be in the Cheerios packaged holders, and I was right.
After that was proven, I happened to run into Tom Rogers at an ANA convention and we had a nice chat about the reverse, which he had designed. He told me that the change in the tail feathers was a last minute decision that he made to make the feathers appear more "white," as they do on a real bald eagle. To make it appear white he removed the angled lines of the central feather and replaced the raised central shaft with a depressed line. This split it in two, which is why I counted 13 feathers on the circulation issue. However, he says that he intended that to be counted as one feather.
Meanwhile, the promotions department had ordered a quantity of the coins struck to send to General Mills, and they were struck using the trial strike dies. He did not know about the Cheerios strikings, and the promotions department either did not know or did not care about the design change. Hey, close enough for government work, right? The right hand did not know what the left hand was doing.
With the early Ikes, it is possible that the White House ordered some coins struck and packaged and it happened, even while the engraving department was still tweaking the final design. The right hand might not have known what the left hand was doing.
TD
Link to original auction listing of the General Schulz specimen.
https://rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/3416369056389-dwight-d-eisenhower-39-first-strike-39-and-proof-dollars-and-signature/?cat=0
Link to original Natcher specimen.
https://worthpoint.com/worthopedia/nixon-mints-eisenhower-dollar-2011864827
Link to original Rogers specimen.
https://rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/34197720570183-richard-nixon/?cat=0
The Schulz, Natcher, and Rogers specimens were identified by my research in looking for other Eisenhower dollar specimens with a President Nixon provenance.
I own the Stephens specimen and it was purchased directly from the Stephens estate in 2018.
I am a collector of presidential numismatic artifacts (PNA) that were manufactured by the US Mint and gifted by a sitting POTUS. Not much is known in this area of US numismatics. My research findings include.
President Eisenhower gift/award of his appreciation medals (14 types). President Johnson gift of 1964-P Kennedy silver half dollar first day of issue, 1965-P Washington clad quarter first day of issue, and 1964 Chamizal medal (still researching) . President Kennedy gift of his appreciation medal (1 type). President Nixon gift of the 1971-S uncirculated Eisenhower silver dollar first day of issue and 1971-S proof Eisenhower silver dollar.
Several of these PNAs have an unbroken-chain-of-ownership from the sitting US President to the current owner. When possible, it's important to continue or re-establish this unbroken-chain-of-ownership from the US history and US numismatic perspectives.
Based on research for one of my previous books, Col. Schulz became Eisenhower's personal assistant at the end of Ike's second term as POTUS. Several files were removed from the WH in his role as personal assistant. Schulz was later promoted to General while being Ike's personal assistant. Upon the death of General Schulz, the WH files and presidential artifacts were bequeath to his son. Upon the son's death, someone from the son's estate donated the WH files to the National Archives. The General Schulz presidential numismatic artifacts was sold via RRAuction in 2019. This is were the Schulz Eisenhower dollar and letter made it's first public appearance. The beneficiary of the RRAuction proceeds had to be someone related to the son of General Schulz.